Quote from: Trond;1085225Found this on RPG.net
At what point do we start wondering if the whole thing is actually parody?

Not parody. Insanity. Some of these nuts are so divorced from reality it makes one wonder just how crazy they act offline. Because from experience these nuts never stop at online.

Quote from: Trond;1085225Found this on RPG.net



At what point do we start wondering if the whole thing is actually parody?

In Marxist countries they have a history of having sessions where neighbors need to tell on each other for their nonrevolutionary thinking and sins. If you don't have enough dirt to dish on each other you can be punished. Kids are encouraged to eat on their parents. RPG.net will start having those sessions soon. Watch.

Quote from: Trond;1085069The problem is that there simply isn't enough evidence in many cases, so even if you take the accusations seriously, but you still want to check if the claim is believable (which is reasonable) you will find that you have no idea what actually happened in many cases. So, in many cases (whether we're talking about the police or a convention) the activists will come up with "survivors" who felt that they were not being taken seriously enough. This is why there has been a push towards believing the victim, which of course will lead to mistakes the other way, accusing someone who's innocent of sexual misconduct. Another issue is that there is already a bias towards believing women, which has been shown in several studies. In fact, I think a lot of the push for "trusting women" comes from the fact that people think women are more trustworthy. But why would she lie? Turns out for a whole range of reasons (regret, personal vendetta, blackmail etc.) or she might simply have very poor judgement on what constitutes sexual misconduct (see the Ansari #metoo case) or be highly strung and on edge for psychological reasons.

For a con? In a they said type situation you probably default to asking the accused to leave. Sucks if they are really not an issue, but if the accusation is plausible but no hard evidence it is the safest thing to do.

Beyond being mentally ill they are a bunch of hypocrites. They get angry, offended and triggered because some in the hobby are salivating and frothing at the mouth that some SJWs might be getting sued. Though it is okay for them to do it to those they hate, dislike because "reasons and feelz".

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085263For a con? In a they said type situation you probably default to asking the accused to leave. Sucks if they are really not an issue, but if the accusation is plausible but no hard evidence it is the safest thing to do.

Is it the safest thing to do? Notice the Bill Webb situation, and how the mob has been after him for some time now. Did he rape someone? Nope, but the hysteria might make people think that this is what he was trying to do. Let's say he actually propositioned Hensley* to come to his room (he denies this, but let's say it's true). He may also have "shudder"....hugged her or something? It looks like everyone agrees that the "violence" part of it was more like an accident or completely made up in the internet hysteria. And this is something the whole gaming community has been buzzing about ever since, trying to ostracize the guy from other cons and also from gaming publishers? Are women really THAT fragile?  WTF?

*And of course BJ Hensley's twitter is exactly what you expect. Bragging about all-girl gaming groups, believing all women, and campaigning for trans children. Somehow I think another woman would have handled it very differently.

Any convention that thinks its the Morality Police isn't going to last. They don't have the resources or the experience to "investigate" anything.

Cons are there to host games and vendors. Nothing more, nothing less.

The hotel may or may not decide to play Morality Police, but in most cases, they will default to "call the cops if you have an issue." Drunks getting drunky? Yeah, that's how hotel bars make money. They'll toss a belligerent drunk, but that's only to ensure the bar scene keeps cranking in those dollars.

As for "believe women", that's fucking ridiculous. Don't believe humans. Believe facts and evidence.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1085369As for "believe women", that's fucking ridiculous. Don't believe humans. Believe facts and evidence.

Wow. How about you pump the brakes you assault-supporting, victim-denying subhuman alt-right sexist cishet systematically priveleged white male.

Got any products I can boycott btw?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1085369As for "believe women", that's fucking ridiculous. Don't believe humans. Believe facts and evidence.

So, these facts and evidence just walk on up to you and introduce themselves?

Silly me, I thought that you had to have a complaint of some kind (unless you saw it yourself), and then use some basic reasoning skills to decide what to do about it. I guess there is no need to talk to anyone, it is all obvious and presents itself to you.

And you certainly should go to the hotel for every complaint of someone behaving poorly enough that you don't want them at the con anymore. Hotels love dealing with every problem and they open their doors happily to groups that have no self policing ability.

There also is no reason to have a policy on harassment and to be clear that anyone can be removed from the event with no refund if the con staff decides to. I mean, pretty much every professional event organization suggests it to reduce liability, but with all of these facts and evidence, no problem so no need.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085398So, these facts and evidence just walk on up to you and introduce themselves?

Silly me, I thought that you had to have a complaint of some kind (unless you saw it yourself), and then use some basic reasoning skills to decide what to do about it. I guess there is no need to talk to anyone, it is all obvious and presents itself to you.

And you certainly should go to the hotel for every complaint of someone behaving poorly enough that you don't want them at the con anymore. Hotels love dealing with every problem and they open their doors happily to groups that have no self policing ability.

There also is no reason to have a policy on harassment and to be clear that anyone can be removed from the event with no refund if the con staff decides to. I mean, pretty much every professional event organization suggests it to reduce liability, but with all of these facts and evidence, no problem so no need.

People have been telling you that : Taking an accusation seriously and investigating =/= "Believe the "victim" " It means the opposite, do not believe in anyone and investigate. But you keep on straw-manning it to mean do not investigate.

Serious question: Do you really think all of us who think Investigating =/= Believing want more rapes/harassment to occur?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1085448People have been telling you that : Taking an accusation seriously and investigating =/= "Believe the "victim" " It means the opposite, do not believe in anyone and investigate. But you keep on straw-manning it to mean do not investigate.

Serious question: Do you really think all of us who think Investigating =/= Believing want more rapes/harassment to occur?

I think you are asking the wrong questions, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Since our thread was closed, you are now targeting someone else here in a hostile manner. GTFO you sjw loser.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1085454I think you are asking the wrong questions, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Since our thread was closed, you are now targeting someone else here in a hostile manner. GTFO you sjw loser.

How christian of you.

Edited, not gonna become you.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1085448People have been telling you that : Taking an accusation seriously and investigating =/= "Believe the "victim" " It means the opposite, do not believe in anyone and investigate. But you keep on straw-manning it to mean do not investigate.

Serious question: Do you really think all of us who think Investigating =/= Believing want more rapes/harassment to occur?

Yes, I do believe that. If you do not act as if the complaint is true (believe the accuser), then you are both likely not to investigate it and to discourage reporting of problems. Since it would not take much time to do some basic research on the basis for "believe the woman", and would rather argue for some form of higher standard before doing anything, you must want more harassment and rapes. If you did the tiniest bit of research you could find why law enforcement, professional trade organizations, HR organizations, general legal advice, etc. all support believing the accuser, but you would rather not using an extreme position. So the logical conclusion is that you are fine with more rapes and harassment.

At no point am I saying continuing to believe the accuser if it becomes evident that they are wrong. I am
not saying be like the sheep on the other site that think that a concept around immediate safety means launch and/or participate in continuous attacks on someone and their business.

We are talking about workplace safety and having a safe gaming space. You seem to be unwilling to do something simple to make it safer so you must want more danger and cons to go bust or be unable to secure space.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085460Yes, I do believe that. If you do not act as if the complaint is true (believe the accuser), then you are both likely not to investigate it and to discourage reporting of problems. Since it would not take much time to do some basic research on the basis for "believe the woman", and would rather argue for some form of higher standard before doing anything, you must want more harassment and rapes. If you did the tiniest bit of research you could find why law enforcement, professional trade organizations, HR organizations, general legal advice, etc. all support believing the accuser, but you would rather not using an extreme position. So the logical conclusion is that you are fine with more rapes and harassment.

At no point am I saying continuing to believe the accuser if it becomes evident that they are wrong. I am
not saying be like the sheep on the other site that think that a concept around immediate safety means launch and/or participate in continuous attacks on someone and their business.

We are talking about workplace safety and having a safe gaming space. You seem to be unwilling to do something simple to make it safer so you must want more danger and cons to go bust or be unable to secure space.

Right, then It's useless to try and talk with you, since you're willing to assume the worst in those who don't agree with you. Have a good day.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1085462Right, then It's useless to try and talk with you, since you're willing to assume the worst in those who don't agree with you. Have a good day.

I am not assuming shit about you, I am doing a plain reading of what you are saying. If you don't like the conclusion, stop posting like an idiot.