Quote from: cranebump;1084014There were two posters banned over there for JAQ posts. The second one seemed legit. The poster did not know all the details concerning consequences of Webb's actions. Got accused of mitigating the man's actions. 7-day ban. No warning. So, yeah...it's a heavy hand over there.

It's a sensitive subject, because a lot of boorish (and worse) behavior still gets overlooked. However, I'm not sure the unending recrimination does anyone much good. If the perp is incorrigible, fire away. But if someone makes a mistake, and their punishment runs along the forever track, then how can they ever be redeemed? On the whole, I think we have to remember that marginalized groups are just know pushing back because, previously, they weren't allowed. Some of that pushback is overzealous. But then, the same zealotry, one-sidedness, virtue signaling is here, too. It's just a different set of virtues, some of which are outdated. There's a middle ground, but screamers won't allow it.

Agree, except virtues are never out-dated.  Various pretenses of manners piggy-backed onto virtues in an attempt to gain some of the respect of the virtue?  Yeah, that's been happening since the dawn of time, and no crowd is entirely immune.  A zealot insisting on a particular kind of manners is pretty much a dead giveaway that such a dynamic is in place.  Call me crazy, but I think the virtues currently out of fashion are always the ones most in need of defense.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1083989Well that's a lot of repeated Color Sprays to the face. Normally one would get tired...

I'm a zen buddhist.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1083995When I read public statements like this that are offered as proof that there are many cases of bad behavior, it makes me wonder where reason has fled to.

Reason has given way to ambition. You cannot argue with (against) personal ambitions, that's why the Warsaw Pact lasted for as long as it did. Ambitions will find rationalizations, when necessary, to maintain hopes of fulfillment.

Quote from: Rafael;1084015Just so this is put down in written form, in case this shit every hits the fan for me: As of 2019, I have around 200 posts on RPGNet - since 2011, I think. I have no concept who that person is or was, or what he or she represents. Now, I've obviously been following the thread a little bit further now, and I think that person is now playing the dogwhistle for people to commit some sort of misdemeanors. I have trouble to take that sort of rhetorics seriously; that's a number of very quick lawsuits waiting to happen, as you yourself have commented in another context already.

Wait what?  Zeea is encouraging people to fuck with other people?

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1083991"Be indignant about this thing!"
"What thing?"
"This thing of so-and-so."
"What do you mean?"
"This one thing. And other stuff."
"What other stuff?

It should be a bannable offence.

Lurtch: you're worse than the Wokists. I hope next time you're masturbating to your midget scat porn you accidentally pick up the Deep Heat for lubricant.

Keep your sexual fantasy to yourself please.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1084048Wait what?  Zeea is encouraging people to fuck with other people?

I am shocked.  Just shocked I tell you.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1084058I am shocked.  Just shocked I tell you.

I was hoping for more details.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1084061I was hoping for more details.

Yeah. I prefer to seperate the things TBP has actually done from the shit talking.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1084017Bill Webb is the CEO and owner. From what I understand they run it more as a partnership, but he is the money guy.

Most of their products are sourced from freelancers or other partners. Bill occasionally writes something, but most is not his stuff.

[...]

I am not saying that there is not actually something else...

To also be clear about this, I have zero sympathy for Mr Webb, based on what I read about him online. A married man and a father who is a drinker and, at the very least, the kind of person that makes googly eyes at other women, is an asshole. Or, to use the words of a classic poet, the famous Nick Diaz of Stockton: "Where I come from, people like that get slapped."

But if this is really a coordinated action, then this has to go beyond the momentary outrage. What would happen if FGG went out of business? Who would buy it if it was sold, who could aspire to fill the void in the market - would there even be any? - Because it's certainly not looking as if the many, many fans of FGG would necessarily rush to carry their money to another publisher if the brand suddenly died; especially with the recent Kickstarter and the announced user license, the "Necrolands" are here to stay.

Not putting on my tinfoil hat just yet, just trying to get a feel for the situation. Also, I'm seriously considering to write Shannon Applecline an email over this; I only know the man from a brief exchange a few years back, but he didn't strike me as an idiot. Is he aware of what's going on there, and could activating him or Mr Allen help to defuse this situation? Has this been tried?

Quote from: Snowman0147;1084048Wait what?  Zeea is encouraging people to fuck with other people?

Not literally; but the signs he sends after another user asks where it's time to bring the "revolt" are certainly ambiguous enough for another moderator to step in and clarify. - Again, no beef with that guy, personally; reading that thread has been a rather bizarre experience. Not to misuse that analogy in this context, but all those people seem to undergo the psychological equivalent of what's in the mind of a drunk dude at a bar when he decides to try and pick up a fight.

I have to thank @thedungeondelver for turning me on to this Vic Mignogna thing. It's endless pages and videos of entertainment.

Waited with bated breath for SJG's reveal as the new plaintiff

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1083933*Waves to the RPG.net crowd!*

Waving is a micro-aggression!!

Only Jazz Hands are safe!

Quote from: Rafael;1084086To also be clear about this, I have zero sympathy for Mr Webb, based on what I read about him online. A married man and a father who is a drinker and, at the very least, the kind of person that makes googly eyes at other women, is an asshole. Or, to use the words of a classic poet, the famous Nick Diaz of Stockton: "Where I come from, people like that get slapped."

Are you a time traveler from the Victorian Era or a 12 year old?

Bars - especially hotel bars - are where adults drink and try to hook up with each other. That's why hookers hang out in hotel bars so the guys who didn't get lucky can instead pay for nookie. As for "married" people, they are in bars without their spouse to get some action because the 50% divorce rate doesn't come out of nowhere.

WTF are we trying to pretend Bill Webb's behavior is aberrant? Women and men get sloshed at bars and paw at each other. That's why alcohol is so popular. Nobody is paying $12 for a shot because of the bar decor.

Complaining about drunk behavior in any bar is retarded. Every adult woman knows WTF bars are for. Let's have the barest modicum of respect for women's intelligence. They go in bars to drink and get pawed by "hot guys". They're abundantly aware bars =/= Bible Study. "Hot" of course is subjective after a few drinks.

And "unwanted advances", uh...you're in a bar. American bars aren't English pubs, but even over there, the pub is a sloppy pawfest at 2am.

Personally, I don't like drunken behavior, so I don't hang out in bars and MAGICALLY somehow I never deal with drunks.

Quote from: Rafael;1084086To also be clear about this, I have zero sympathy for Mr Webb, based on what I read about him online. A married man and a father who is a drinker and, at the very least, the kind of person that makes googly eyes at other women, is an asshole. Or, to use the words of a classic poet, the famous Nick Diaz of Stockton: "Where I come from, people like that get slapped."

Quote from: Spinachcat;1084091Are you a time traveler from the Victorian Era or a 12 year old?

Bars - especially hotel bars - are where adults drink and try to hook up with each other. That's why hookers hang out in hotel bars so the guys who didn't get lucky can instead pay for nookie. As for "married" people, they are in bars without their spouse to get some action because the 50% divorce rate doesn't come out of nowhere.

WTF are we trying to pretend Bill Webb's behavior is aberrant? Women and men get sloshed at bars and paw at each other. That's why alcohol is so popular. Nobody is paying $12 for a shot because of the bar decor.

Complaining about drunk behavior in any bar is retarded. Every adult woman knows WTF bars are for. Let's have the barest modicum of respect for women's intelligence. They go in bars to drink and get pawed by "hot guys". They're abundantly aware bars =/= Bible Study. "Hot" of course is subjective after a few drinks.

Jesus H Christ, both of these posts are retrograde bullshit.

There's nothing wrong with getting drunk, even if you're married and a father. I have 4+ drinks in a sitting at least monthly. Sometimes at a bar, sometimes at home. Sometimes with my wife, sometimes with my buddies. Sometimes we have everybody over - friends, spouses, kids, dogs - and have a party where most of the adults get sloshed while the kids run around in a shouting pack until they collapse on a couch and watch a movie. This is considered perfectly normal in my social milieu (middle-class suburban Canada).

And bars today aren't places where people expect to get hit on. This isn't 1983. Men and women enjoy alcohol and the conviviality of bars. It isn't about sex. There is no expectation of being pawed at just because you're sitting at a table being served alcohol, and most women don't go to bars to get hit on. Last weekend I went to four or five taphouses and bars with a buddy of mine. We didn't hit on anybody, and nobody hit on us. A couple weeks before that I went out with my wife and two other couples to a craft beerhouse. I'd day the median age of the people at the bar was about 40. In addition to wine and craft beers, people were doing shooters. Everyone I saw left with the same people they came with.

Which isn't to say nobody at a convention or a hotel bar will flirt or make a pass at someone. But it's not an expectation, and people who are aggressive assholes about it have definitely stepped out of line and deserve to be thrown out. Women don't go to bars to be pawed at by "hot guys." Give your head a shake.

Yeah, as if the "drinking" part was the problem, not the "trying to cheat on his wife" part.

- Maybe that's Bill's problem: He is too postmodern for normal beta males to understand.' Cause a real alpha, he shows his superiority by stalking the rejected Naruto cosplayer. Particularly at a venue directly related to his own six-figure business, and particularly where as many people as possible know who he is. Just in case there was a chance his wife or his kids would miss out on this radiant statement he's making about to how much he really does respect them. - And all of this in the present sociopolitical climate, no less. "Modern day entrepreneurial"?

Seriously, though, I don't care where Webb decides to sheathe his dagger; I'm just saying, let's not forget that there could a universe where we would get to debate different stuff because this dude had been smarter. Not "more moral" or "more sober", just not this fucking stupid.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1084091Personally, I don't like drunken behavior, so I don't hang out in bars and MAGICALLY somehow I never deal with drunks.

The few times I go to a bar, it's really boring, and I'm usually out as soon as I'm done with whatever brought me there.

Still an assumption that the harassment was sexual in nature with the intention of ending up in bed with the target of the harassment.

 As for drinking, there were a lot of very drunk people in the bar this year at Gary Con. The con itself sells a glass that gives you free beer, so it is not like they are discouraging it. After midnight Friday and Saturday I did not see Bill Webb in the bar, he was not one of the very drunk people there when I passed through.

I enjoy a beer or two or a martini, but I hate being around very drunk people so I avoid bars when there are a lot of them there.

I was in a game that Bill was DMing on Saturday night and he was drinking some rye whiskey then, but over 5+ hours he had maybe 4 drinks. Since the average person gets rid of about 1 drink an hour, I doubt he was drunk from that.

So, again, maybe he has changed his behavior and amended his ways which is a big demand from the thread that this one is pointed at. But the people over there like to argue straw men arguments like how a con should be run when they did not attend and most have not run a con. With gems like demanding a harassment policy when there already is one.