Quote from: Brad;1083741How fat and/or bald are you? Asking for a friend.

So typical of Natalie Portman to fat and hair-shame other people.

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1083746So typical of Natalie Portman to fat and hair-shame other people.

Yeah but it is a real shock to see Keira Knightly join in!

Quote from: Shasarak;1083745What is a K&Ker? I have not come across that term before.

The Knights & Knaves Alehouse. This is an old school BBS that was later modified into a forum like the RPGsite here. K&KA focuses on 0D&D and AD&D 1e mostly. I would spend more time over there and post more often however they have firewalled off many of the sections that I would be interested in reading and discussing and require a login even to view those sections. For the record, my private business in any particular Forum or BBS, is not the business of the Forum or BBS owners, unless I want to publicly post and make it their business.


Here are the newer Forums with more current posts...
http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/index.php


This is the older of the two Forums now just archived and available for review. The original mods were very anti-RPG where the RPGs were not D&D or AD&D1e. You can just read through and see their history and discussions here.

http://knightsnknaves.proboards.com/board/2/book-ad

Another old school forum similar to K&KA is Circvs Maximvs, and that is really Mos Eisley over there. It's a live arena of bullies, sharks, and predators that revel in hazing and humiliation. I posted just once back in 2006 or 2007, and haven't been back since, becuase not even one of the forum posters or members was honest about wanting to have a discussion about RPG gaming. They might actually have some good discussions about games over there, but I wouldn't know as it is a waste of my time to wade through the bullshit and hostility there just to find the few gems of discussion threads about gaming that they might actually have.

http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/forum/forum.php

This is actually pretty fair, but if people join they'll easily discern that they see the same site after joining that they saw when they weren't members.  I'm not sure what sections are being referred to as viewable only with membership.

The selection of games the site supports is much more narrow than most other RPG sites.  That is a fact.  While K&KA does have members who greatly dislike versions of D&D the site doesn't support, most members actually are big fans of at least one system (B/X, AD&D 2E, BECMI, etc.) not discussed on the site.  

We simply want a site that doesn't become a kitchen-sink RPG site, or every third question isn't about "how do I convert XYZ to game ABC?".  That's what this place or the Pub is for.  Why be the same?  We want a site for people who need no introduction to AD&D, and aren't interested in rehashing level limits, energy drain, and similar stuff more than once every five years or so.

Quote from: EOTB;1083735When have I ever bragged about any of that whole mess?  WHEN, Willmark?

Please point to where I said you did. I'll wait, No I won't your trolling is 100% yours.

Quote from: EOTB;1083735The only time I address it is when people bring it up to me and/or try to recast the history for their own purposes.

Again your issue not mine. Although some might be unaware of your part in the whole sad affair.

Quote from: EOTB;1083735Do you consider yourself trolling towards me right now with the cross-forum drama in a thread about SJG?

You made a statement in this thread I answered it. If that qualifies as drama that's on you.

Quote from: EOTB;1083735You've had problems with DF mods?  Perhaps a mirror, instead of a conspiracy, would be a better course.

DF used to be a great place in the absence of the K&K Taliban. Then slowly but surely they came back. Add in the fact that K&Kers get a pass? No thanks. Its still an excellent place for resources, but not as a hangout. Of course YMMV.

Quote from: EOTB;1083735You're right: RPGSite is the wild west

You're right here you can get both barrels. Wild West RPGs and a forum just like it.  

Quote from: EOTB;1083735DF is a London street.

It certainly does have that "Mother May I" quality from certain mods.  

Quote from: EOTB;1083735And yet your approach differs not at all between the two.  I'm not responsible for your tendency to, if upset, play the man instead of the field.

Upset? Please tell me my mood right now since you apparently know so much? I must have missed you over my should these last few decades.  

Quote from: EOTB;1083735I don't even interact with you on DF.

Thank goodness, I might get trolled non-stop for over a year and then PMs start becoming public, madness!

Quote from: EOTB;1083735Do I seem worried about interacting with you here?

Why are you one of the K&K Taliban? Not really then the most egregious ones know when to stay home.

Quote from: EOTB;1083735I mean seriously, look at your post.

I have, yours on the other hand are a bunch of replies attempting to me how I feel on the subject? Can I get the winning lottery numbers to?

Quote from: EOTB;1083735It's filled with resentment over people not liking what you like - apparently vocally so

I have zero issues with people no liking what I do. I do find it amusing that there is a segment of gaming that can spout of and expect no criticism sent back their way. Its funny but its like "what me? I didnt do anything wrong!"

Quote from: EOTB;1083735- and blaming your troubles on others who are obviously conspiring against you, all while appealing to the crowd that this person is mean.

Conspiracy? There is certainly a tendency for certain posters to get more leeway.

Quote from: EOTB;1083735But IME for every manlet who's emotionally predisposed to eat that shit up, there's five more who silently look it over and start talking with me.  Straining out anyone who takes this stuff at face value is value-added.

The fact that in even in just this short exchange over the last few pages and your (apparent?) surprise that people don't view things the way you do is far more telling.

In the end my stance has been pretty much the same for quite a a while: play what you want. I do find it amusing that the K&Kers when off the preserve don't think their reputation proceeds them.

DF? I pop in and read something every once in a while or look for used gaming materials, but these days I'm getting back to my roots of wargaming which is of far more interest than RPGs to me as of late. Hence my reason why I read through this entire thread and my commentary.

All-
Now that I've said what I wanted to, back to SJG. I've been following along here and elsewhere and from what I've gathered they are getting dog piled because of association with Frog God games? Not anything that SJG themselves did directly? As in guilt by association?

Further Edit: I read the links off of page 1 but this is from 2017, why is this popping back up now? Is there something else to it?

Quote from: EOTB;1083688That's Willmark's way of describing making the K&KA forum.  He's harped this note for a while, here and other places. https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1923366#p1923366  

His premise is imaginative.  I think we all know one of those guys who purely seethes with resentment over something, and thereafter spreads discrediting gossip around because he wants others to share his dislike.  

What can you do?  Not much.  If people wish to dislike DF they'll find a reason.  K&KA lives rent-free in Willmark's head - mentioning DF anywhere he goes brings out a "K&KA killed it" post like a doctor hitting your knee with a rubber hammer.  For the narrow purpose of carrying grudges over unknown slights, Willmark has wished himself an effective strength of 20.

I mean - DF is right there.  If someone said "Denver has been turned into shithole!" I can go look at same-day pictures on google and see for myself.  Same with DF.  It's not El Dorado across the sea, where you have to rely on the word of people who claim to have been there, whispered in smoky taverns across rough tables.

Greetings!

Thank you, EOTB. I don't know much about DF or K and K. I have nothing against either of them. I don't know who K and K is.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: GameDaddy;1083754
The Knights & Knaves Alehouse. This is an old school BBS that was later modified into a forum like the RPGsite here. K&KA focuses on 0D&D and AD&D 1e mostly. I would spend more time over there and post more often however they have firewalled off many of the sections that I would be interested in reading and discussing and require a login even to view those sections. For the record, my private business in any particular Forum or BBS, is not the business of the Forum or BBS owners, unless I want to publicly post and make it their business.


Here are the newer Forums with more current posts...
http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/index.php

Thanks for that.

All forums change over time.

I haven't been on K&KA or OD&DProboards for a decade. Back when, I wasn't impressed and didn't enjoy the membership. I found Dragonsfoot much more welcoming and fun. But I haven't spend much time on DF as an active member in the past couple of years so I can't fully speak for their day to day culture. It's quite possible I'd have a better time now at K&KA vs. DF, but who knows.

The big difference I felt back when was DF was more welcoming of the OSR whereas K&KA wasn't keen on OSR stuff, unless it was specific for AD&D 1e. However, I do agree with EOTB that there's no reason for every RPG site to be a generalist site. There is plenty of room for forums that are specific to one game or handful of games.

Quote from: Willmark;1083762All-
Now that I've said what I wanted to, back to SJG. I've been following along here and elsewhere and from what I've gathered they are getting dog piled because of association with Frog God games? Not anything that SJG themselves did directly? As in guilt by association?

Further Edit: I read the links off of page 1 but this is from 2017, why is this popping back up now? Is there something else to it?

Yes, it does seem to be guilt by association, but I believe the motivation is at least in part to maintain a closed social system, much like a cult. Boycotting Frog God Games itself over Bill Webb is not enough for them. Not even just boycotting The Fanstast Trip line by SJG is enough since it now has direct involvement with FGG. The target has to be expanded to include all of SJG. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point their target list expands to cons that feature SJG.

As for why now? I believe it started when Stacy Dellorfano and her minion Christopher Helton (or maybe it's the other way around in reality) decided to target FGG, and they switch their focus every month or so as conventions come and go, or new partnerships with FGG come to their notice.

It's interesting that the rpg.net thread doesn't mention her name much (if at all), but I think that's due to the grudge many on rpg.net hold against Stacy for her prior support of Zak S. Basically the Bolshevik (rpg.net and allies) and Menshevik (Zak S. and allies) wings of gaming SJW don't like each other very much. Stacy is trying to essentially be like Trotsky and move from the Mensheviks to the Bolsheviks. (Which didn't turn out so well for Trotsky.)

Personally, I think Contessa has been struggling for resources, and these campaigns are a means to attract support/demand tribute from gaming cons and companies. On the other hand, Stacy has attacked many for wrongthink the past few years, so maybe this is just her being the scorpion that she is.

If successful I think she'd love to be able to dictate business relationships amongst the gaming companies since she'd almost always be able to find something problematic with either a member of a company's staff or content they created previously that's now considered "unsafe."

One irony in all this is that Stacy still promotes Frog God Games on her website //www.frivology.com/about-me with links to FGG and the product she helped create with them. (Archive at //www.archive.fo/t76cp in case of a later airbrush.)

Welp, I got banned from TBP in that SJG thread.  Apparently I was "concern-trolling".  I'm really not sure what that means.  I had always assumed trolling was agitating just for the sake of agitating.  If I legitimately believe that we need to take a measured response to these sorts of situations, well I guess I don't know what trolling is.

Apparently according to RPG.net we are the bad guys when it comes to forums. They have bi-partisan mods, ones who not only shut down threads with made up imaginary terms. Insult posters for trying to hear both sides of the story yet also block them just before they insult them. Have turning the site into one giant leftist fully woke narrative of a website where no one is allowed to post if they think differently. We are the worst place.

Voros remember snitches get stitches

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sjg-offering-partial-refunds-and-continuing-to-work-with-bill-webb-see-redtext-in-post-163.844606/page-20

Quote from: Dr. Benton Quest;1083810Welp, I got banned from TBP in that SJG thread.  Apparently I was "concern-trolling".  I'm really not sure what that means.  I had always assumed trolling was agitating just for the sake of agitating.  If I legitimately believe that we need to take a measured response to these sorts of situations, well I guess I don't know what trolling is.

Remember though we are the much worse than them when it comes to rpg forums. You were banned with the use of an imaginary purelly rpg.net invented terms. We are bad because we don't bend over backwards to indulge in whatever current narrative is in vogue over at that cesspool.

Thank you for standing up for us here at the site. Though be careful because you did that you are know in the rpg.net mods bad graces. They will use any excuse if not possibly perma ban you for defending this site.

Quote from: Dr. Benton Quest;1083810Welp, I got banned from TBP in that SJG thread.  Apparently I was "concern-trolling".  I'm really not sure what that means.  I had always assumed trolling was agitating just for the sake of agitating.  If I legitimately believe that we need to take a measured response to these sorts of situations, well I guess I don't know what trolling is.

Greetings!

Welcome to the forum here, sir! Good to have you with us! Grab a nice drink, light up a fine cigar. You are now a member of a site that believes in FREEDOM, brother!

TBP...wow...I don't know how your survived that place however long you did. I would be banned in a blink, I'm sure.

To hell with them, my friend. Here you have fellow forum members that are reasonable, mature, and sane.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The animosity for this site that you'll find at TBP and some other places didn't come out of nowhere. The top page of active threads pretty much always contains multiple highly political themes, the person who administers the site is highly political in much of what he posts, and there is a modest-size but very active core of members who constantly blather about 'feminazis' and 'SJW's' and all the rest of the alt-right-light BS. It is pretty irritating, and is why I have dramatically reduced my time spent here. I don't think a neutrally inclined person could say there is much difference in the quality of discussion between the worst threads here and at TBP.

BUT, what clearly distinguishes this site from TBP is the fact that I can come here and say all that without having a jack booted dip shit jump down my throat. The content of their politics is neither here nor there; it is pretty much as stupid as every other echo chamber you find online (including all the 'SJW' threads here). The problem with TBP is their mod's and frequent posters' performative outrage. At this point their only response to even the slightest note of real or (more often) imagined disagreement is to use a bunch of ham fisted, made up rules to shut you up.

I feel like Rpgpub is pretty much the only forum right now that is active enough to keep my interest and hasn't been overtaken by hard-right or hard-left blow hards.

Correction Benton Quest. Considering what you said and the punishment they gave you it is pretty clear to me that they used your support for this site to give you a much longer ban. What you said does not imo fit the crime. But hey we are the worst of the two sites everybody.

Beyond Pundit and a few posters I don't think this forum is really that much more political than many others. It seems to me at least that those who champion free speech or claim to not want an echo chamber. Are the exact opposite imo. For example because we will not simply take a women word that something bad happened to her. I and others here would be called misogynistic and enablers of violence towards woemn. When many here are simply " a women came forward lets just not take their word for and due process take it's course. Instead be cause we refuse to just echo the usual narrative of "believe at any cost even if it ruins others people lives". We are alt=Right anti-women haters. Man, woman, trans whatever your gender I'm not taking anyone words without at least due process of the law.

Quote from: sureshot;1083819Correction Benton Quest. Considering what you said and the punishment they gave you it is pretty clear to me that they used your support for this site to give you a much longer ban. What you said does not imo fit the crime. But hey we are the worst of the two sites everybody.

Beyond Pundit and a few posters I don't think this forum is really that much more political than many others. It seems to me at least that those who champion free speech or claim to not want an echo chamber. Are the exact opposite imo. For example because we will not simply take a women word that something bad happened to her. I and others here would be called misogynistic and enablers of violence towards woemn. When many here are simply " a women came forward lets just not take their word for and due process take it's course. Instead be cause we refuse to just echo the usual narrative of "believe at any cost even if it ruins others people lives". We are alt=Right anti-women haters. Man, woman, trans whatever your gender I'm not taking anyone words without at least due process of the law.

Well, we'll see.  I've been reading rpg.net for over 20 years.  I never posted much.  In recent years I've hedged my bets and didn't post because if I had an opinion that differed I was pretty sure it wouldn't go down well.

I'll see how it goes. It might just be I'm not a good fit over there anymore.  Shame really.  I met my local gaming group through rpg.net and have fond memories from there.