This series of books by Michael Scott Rohan are super-duper. Mythic, epic and rather enigmatic from a gaming perspective.
You see, encroaching ice is basically the big bad of the books - sure, there are cultists urging it along, so to speak, but ultimately, the ice is the enemy.
How do you represent this in a game?
Quote from: One Horse Town;364837This series of books by Michael Scott Rohan are super-duper. Mythic, epic and rather enigmatic from a gaming perspective.
You see, encroaching ice is basically the big bad of the books - sure, there are cultists urging it along, so to speak, but ultimately, the ice is the enemy.
How do you represent this in a game?
Ice weasels.
-clash
With... ice?
I don't know, climate phenomena don't really strike me as very interesting antagonists... it's one thing to do a "man v. nature" kind of thing, but trying to portray ice as the BBEG? That seems a little strange.
Quote from: GnomeWorks;364841I don't know, climate phenomena don't really strike me as very interesting antagonists... it's one thing to do a "man v. nature" kind of thing, but trying to portray ice as the BBEG?
There
is a more traditional Big Bad involved, in fact: Louhi, the witch-queen from
The Kalevala and Finnish mythology.
Quote from: One Horse Town;364837This series of books by Michael Scott Rohan are super-duper. Mythic, epic and rather enigmatic from a gaming perspective.
You see, encroaching ice is basically the big bad of the books - sure, there are cultists urging it along, so to speak, but ultimately, the ice is the enemy.
How do you represent this in a game?
Well, hmm. Never done it before, but if I was required to, my thinking would be something like this...
The natural event (ice sheet, growing desert, etc) is the main problem in the setting. It isn't a conventional monster, so the disaster becomes a part of the setting or tone of my game. In other words, it's like other settings' "Last War," "loss of magic" or "great conspiracy." Backdrop. It should be pervasive to the setting and nearly every adventure. But it still isn't an "adversary."
I don't care for faceless enemies much in my game. So I would start thinking about how villains could exploit the ever-growing ice shelf. You'd have people migrating - lots of opportunity for slavery and exploitation. Food resources would become scarce, so hunters, trade unions, nobles might move up the social ladder even higher. Hell, wood to burn could become more valuable than currency.
In a fantasy setting, I'd almost surely set up a BBEG that was growing an army of undead or similar beast that could thrive in the winter clime. In a sci-fi setting, said villain could be creating a mutant race intended to out live normal humans.
Finally, every so often, I would pit PC vs. Nature, just so they don't forget they're dealing with a serious problem. Oh, that magical artifact you need? It's located 40 miles into the glacier. Dress warm. Freak storms could blow down from the north every now and then, casting doubt over how safe "civilization" actually is.
Monsters better suited to handle the cold would be climbing up the food chain past their temperate equivalents. Maybe yeti supplant ogres. White dragons finally put those snide reds in their place.
Dunno. It all sounds like quite a bit of fun. If for no other reason than to do something other than "A big war happened fifty years ago and the adventurers live in a time when the powers that be are beginning to reassert themselves."
Oh, and a cabal of fire-themed specialist wizards presenting themselves as god-kings. Should probably have some of that.
Nice ideas, winkingbishop!
Quote from: One Horse Town;364847Nice ideas, winkingbishop!
You didn't like the ice weasels?
-clsh
Quote from: flyingmice;364849You didn't like the ice weasels?
-clsh
You're thinking too small. Ice Badgers would be much better.
A fantastic series of books, of which the original trilogy was the best.
I think the Ice-as-an-enemy theme really only came into its own by the 3rd book, but I never felt Ice was the enemy. More of an ambivalent variantion on mother-nature / father-winter.
This thread reminds me of those Wilderness and Frostburn survival guides that do the ice environment as a careless force enables a good and even a bad GM to add great amounts of mellodrama.
You might be able to pull a bunch of ideas from the Hellfrost (http://www.tripleacegames.com/HellFrost.php) setting.
=
Quote from: One Horse Town;364851You're thinking too small. Ice Badgers would be much better.
But Ice Weasels come in Hordes! Ice Badgers are solitary bastards. A Horde of Ice Weasels can skeletonize a woolly mammoth in less than five minutes!
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;364856But Ice Weasels come in Hordes! Ice Badgers are solitary bastards. A Horde of Ice Weasels can skeletonize a woolly mammoth in less than five minutes!
-clash
You're thinking of Ice Piranha.
Quote from: flyingmice;364849You didn't like the ice weasels?
-clsh
Seriously, I'm with Clash on this one. If you really need to be convinced, they can be giant ice weasels ridden by hobgoblin samurai.
...you know what? Maybe you just don't see it yet. I'll help :D
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu181/owlrune/winterworld.png)
convinced yet?
Quote from: winkingbishop;364859Seriously, I'm with Clash on this one. If you really need to be convinced, they can be giant ice weasels ridden by hobgoblin samurai.
...you know what? Maybe you just don't see it yet. I'll help :D
(http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu181/owlrune/winterworld.png)
convinced yet?
Yes! Think of a Horde of these babies! Who needs Rifts?
-clash
Make 'em ferrets and it's a deal. Everyone knows that ferrets are more vicious.
Quote from: One Horse Town;364863Make 'em ferrets and it's a deal. Everyone knows that ferrets are more vicious.
You mean they're not the same? I figured "Ferrets" was the name they called particularly vicious weasels...
Ice ferrets? Done!
Stage whisper: (Thanks, WB! I think it was the illo that really tipped him. The "ferret" thing is just to save face...)
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;364864You mean they're not the same? I figured "Ferrets" was the name they called particularly vicious weasels...
Ice ferrets? Done!
Stage whisper: (Thanks, WB! I think it was the illo that really tipped him. The "ferret" thing is just to save face...)
-clash
Aside (with a nod): "Word."
Now that i've humoured the derail, maybe there's a few more ideas out there. It'd be nice to have just one thread in a while that survived contact with the masses.
Greentongue, what system is Hellfrost?
Edit: Oops, never mind. I didn't see the little Savage Worlds logo first up.
Quote from: Lawbag;364852This thread reminds me of those Wilderness and Frostburn survival guides that do the ice environment as a careless force enables a good and even a bad GM to add great amounts of mellodrama.
Well, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get the train back on the rail. Here is a link to Amazon's record for the Frostburn (http://www.amazon.com/Frostburn-Mastering-Dungeons-Roleplaying-Supplement/dp/0786928964) supplement mentioned by Lawbag. I don't own the product. The negative reviews were very insightful. But, hell, if you can pinch one for less money and save yourself time, its probably worth it.
So, getting back to the ideas that I was tossing around for you before, I thought a bit more about what sorts of conflict would emerge in your potential Ice World:
Unless you're already making a Snowball Earth, chances are that the few places not frozen over are going to the places worth invading. Last vestiges of what humans had.
And, I gotta run. back later.
And I'm back.
So, say you did really want to play up the apocalyptic feel a bit. Like I mentioned earlier, fuel would become a
hot (heh, I kill me) commodity. Once wood becomes scarce you'd probably see people turn to magic, oil, fossil fuels (if available on that world). I'm picturing that scene in just about every movie about poverty where the old lady is in the market trading for rice...except the merchant gives her much less than she expected because of inflating costs and she starts to weep. Except on Winter World, the homemaker is trading for coal and oil so she can keep her kids warm and cook their meals.
In such a scenario, anything forged would have a huge cost. Well-equipped PCs would probably be perceived with awe. Or the game goes the barbarian / swashbuckler route. Anyway, the cost of armaments feeds the need to scavenge ruins - shovel ready adventure scenarios. Oh, and dungeons are pretty easy to pop down as various habitats are abandoned due to the encroaching ice.
Introducing magic, of course, makes it much more interesting. Maybe that cabal of firemage god-kings CAN sustain a nation in the frigid north by means of magic. Maybe some demihumans HAVE found a way to carry on underground using lost-til-now magical or technological means. And run into lots of monsters down there.
Freezing waters would probably mean a drop in sea level. Consequently larger landmasses and ice bridges may be in order. So you could introduce the complication of new cultures or beasts hitherto unknown in these parts.
Oh, and don't include a white witch. Everyone knows they attract magic lions.
I'm tapped for now. But Winter World sounds like fun :)
Poul Anderson did a novel on this, where a glaciation was threatening to overwhelm a race of sophonts, A Stone in Heaven. Very interesting. SF rather than fantasy of course. There would be whole nations that the ice has covered, or that are abandoned. Plants and animals change - perhaps including inportant food sources - due to the change in climate. Invaders come seeking a place to live, driven by desperation. Hot springs, volcanoes, and other geothermally active areas become pockets of life in the ice.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;364884Hot springs, volcanoes, and other geothermally active areas become pockets of life in the ice.
-clash
Dude, hell yeah. Volcanoes. Volcanoes
with cities around them! Talk about a conundrum.
Empire Builder: Hmm. We could set up shop here.
Adviser: A worthy consideration sire, but perhaps the volcano will erupt?
EB: So we freeze to death out there within three weeks out of fear that this thing could blow next year or next millennium?
A: When you put that way sire....
Yep, volcanoes or anywhere with geothermal activity is going to be where the people gather and fight over.
IIRC in the books, the main character apprentices in smithing under the ice in a dormant volcano.
I swear I read something once, or maybe saw it in a show (factual, not fiction) about a glacier in the middle ages or some-such that was advancing and threatening a town and that monks went out and rebuked it and it eventually retreated (not that there is a link between the two, of course, but I like the idea of religious men going out to the leading edge of a glacier and praying at it).
Quote from: Werekoala;364905I swear I read something once, or maybe saw it in a show (factual, not fiction) about a glacier in the middle ages or some-such that was advancing and threatening a town and that monks went out and rebuked it and it eventually retreated (not that there is a link between the two, of course, but I like the idea of religious men going out to the leading edge of a glacier and praying at it).
Could be this (http://www.physorg.com/news168777353.html), hmmm?
Quote from: winkingbishop;364908Could be this (http://www.physorg.com/news168777353.html), hmmm?
Yep, that'd be the one I think, although I don't think it was a news article where I first heard of it. I think things like that would be a perfect fit in the "wall of ice as looming protagonist" setting. :)
Fascinating that they now want to pray for the glacier to grow.
RPGPundit
Another exapmle of why God hates us - we're wishy-washy. ;)
Lovecraft had something along those lines in 'Polaris'... an intellectual culture that is pushed south by encroaching ice and eventually perishes at the hands of the barbarian Inuto peoples who they come up against. The ice itself isn't the villain but the North star has a kind of malevolent personification going on... as if it wants the Northern lands for itself.