Quote from: flyingmiceI've noticed some small B&W pdfs with enormous file sized, larger than my StarCluster 2 with its 288 pages and color illos. Is this a function of bad software or inexperience with settings?

Both, although 'bad' software is often more just software tools that don't work together all that well for what is being attempted. Or need special techniques together work well....which I guess boils down to inexperience. BTW I'm NOT the person to do this, I'm mostly armchairing here. But this is based on info from pros I know that are very, very good at this sort of thing.

There is a third thing too. Doing it right takes time, work, attention to detail, and occationally persistance of trial and error. Doing it wrong by saying "screw it, they can mostly read this sucker, it's Miller-time" is often easier.

P.S.  Rule of thumb; if you ZIP the PDF and it compresses down down in any significant way it be shat.

For me, whether I purchase a PDF or not is oftentimes a matter of price. I get annoyed when publishers expect me to pay the same price for a PDF that I would for a printed book. Otherwise, I enjoy them and will happily purchase a game that I'm interested in in the PDF format.
Great White Games, I'm looking at you.

I'm not a big fan of the PDF format.  Here's why.

- It sucks ass for reading on screen.  Having to constantly grab and slide the page around is annoying, and to be honest HTML would do the job much better.
- I like books.  I consider having a new gaming book to read to be one of life's pleasures, and having a new computer file to read just isn't the same.
- Cost.  As noted above, I'm going to want to print it.  Cost has to be kept down because I'm absorbing the cost for the printing.  If cost of PDF + cost of having it printed is less than a comprable professionally printed book then I'd buy one.  Most are not, especially larger ones.
- Size.  One temptation as Hastur pointed out is that publishers don't feel the need to cut things.  But that increases my cost at the consumer end to have the thing printed.  I'm much more likely to buy a $5 64 page suppliment than I am a $20 300 page suppliment.  The former I can actually afford to get printed, and therefore use.
- DRM.  Watermarking is great, but companies *still* lock down the PDFs.  It's really annoying to have to hunt down something to crack it because the publisher first didn't include bookmarks then locked the file so I can't use them myself.

Overall, I don't buy a lot of PDFs.  I've heard the Print on Demand services are nice, maybe I'll look into that.

Quote from: mattormegFor me, whether I purchase a PDF or not is oftentimes a matter of price. I get annoyed when publishers expect me to pay the same price for a PDF that I would for a printed book. Otherwise, I enjoy them and will happily purchase a game that I'm interested in in the PDF format.
Great White Games, I'm looking at you.

Just so you know, the thought process I go through when pricing my pdfs has to do with three things.
1: market price - is it comparable in price to other products like it?

2: ROI: usually relating to print price, the investment in art, writing, editing and overall production.

3: Print price: I usually get around 33% on the print version when it goes through distro. I want to make at least this much (or near to it) with the PDF.

Just an FYI
Bill

I think part of the usefulness depends on how comfortable you are reading electronic displays - if it bugs out your eyes or whatever.  If you feel the need to print out the whole thing (and you can't manage to do it free at work), then your cost goes up enough that it's not worth it unless you have limited access to print books.

I never print more than the odd page of pdfs so the print cost is negligible.

Quote from: HinterWelt3: Print price: I usually get around 33% on the print version when it goes through distro. I want to make at least this much (or near to it) with the PDF.

If you don't mind me asking, what's your rough distribution overhead with PDF? I always assumed [EDIT:you'd take home] in the range of 50ish-60ish%, depending on setup maybe higher than that. Of course that'll vary as a overall percentage per product because of the extra effort in prepping the PDF for the masses.  Even if you do it yourself I don't expect you to count that labour as 'free'.  Start looking at it that way and it understandably it tends to turn into one of the "Miller-time" senarios. Because people gotta eat, and working for free tends to not support one's food habit.

Quote from: NicephorusI think part of the usefulness depends on how comfortable you are reading electronic displays - if it bugs out your eyes or whatever.  If you feel the need to print out the whole thing (and you can't manage to do it free at work), then your cost goes up enough that it's not worth it unless you have limited access to print books.

That's a big part of it.

Madman, I think papa needs to get a new monitor. Or new eyes. :mischief:  I usually have a full page up at a time, because yes scrolling the page to read to the bottom bites.  Especially on a two column layout where you have to then scroll back to the top to of the page to start the second column.

Of course I happen to be blessed with eyes that have the right focal length for monitor reading. I'm late 30's with thousands upon thousands of hours (I'll hazard a guess of 40,000 hours) over 2 and half decades of reading monitors, some damn crappy ones for a lot of that, and I'm still getting by nicely on factory issued eyeballs alone.

It's not so much that I can't read on a monitor.  I don't *like* reading on a monitor.

Quote from: MaddmanIt's not so much that I can't read on a monitor.  I don't *like* reading on a monitor.

I just saw this part:

Quote...Having to constantly grab and slide the page around is annoying...

...and though "oh boy, would that it ever suck if I tried to read several pages or a whole book like that".  I assumed you weren't reading it full page because it was illegible to you at that zoom level.  You do have a mouse with a wheel to change pages while at full screen? I now consider that pretty much a requirement too.

EDIT: I do get you like the esthetics of paper in whatever favourite reading environment you've gotten acustomed to. I've got those places too, it's just that I feel a lot more comfortable in those particular places with a paper format I consider disposable.  On the flipside if I'm 'reading' more for the pictures I do appreciate the quality of a good proper printing. But that's a lot less reading rules and games and more about an esthetics of art in a book format.

RPGs are books. Period.

At least for me.

Quote from: blakkieIf you don't mind me asking, what's your rough distribution overhead with PDF? I always assumed [EDIT:you'd take home] in the range of 50ish-60ish%, depending on setup maybe higher than that. Of course that'll vary as a overall percentage per product because of the extra effort in prepping the PDF for the masses.  Even if you do it yourself I don't expect you to count that labour as 'free'.  Start looking at it that way and it understandably it tends to turn into one of the "Miller-time" senarios. Because people gotta eat, and working for free tends to not support one's food habit.

Hmm, I may not be clear on what you are asking for so forgive me if I do not answer directly. The vendors I use take between 25-30%. Everything else is already in the mix. I need to generate pdfs for print versions. The software I use generate bookmarks, links and cross-references for me. Ad Copy is also generated for the print side so it is available.

General COGS is low when talking about PDFs since I do little in the way of additional work to generate and sell them. I take care to make all my advertising dual tasked.

Is that what you were looking for?

Bill