The War Against Desborough and Mongoose Publishing

crkrueger · July 03, 2012, 07:47:23 PM

Quote from: jhkim;556153However, both there are here, there are some posters who insist on ridiculous claims - like how traditional RPG players are brain-damaged or have broken social skills (there); or how anyone who had problems with AD&D1 never actually played it (here).

or, that there really is no difference between the different forms of games, (which is most of the storygame talk here, IME).

I don't have a problem with Storygames being Storygames and people liking them. I have a problem with people marketing and claiming them to be no different then traditional RPGs. That leads to market leaders like D&D and WFRP being radically altered to this "new way of roleplaying" that is more story metagame or tactical metagame then anything else.

Unfortunately, we're in a post-Edwards world when it comes to RPG theory and you still have people in place in major companies who drank the Kool-Aid and design their games accordingly. Maybe 5e will roll some of that back, who knows.

jhkim · July 03, 2012, 07:59:14 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;556156Indeed I did, and indeed it was; and I'm quite willing to concede the point that my putting storygames-discussion in "Other Games" is an anti-storygames move.

The critical difference of course is that over there, a forum allegedly about RPGs shunted the biggest, most popular RPG of all time into a ghetto. Whereas over here, I've shunted games that aren't actually RPGs into a ghetto.

See, that's what I like about you, Pundit, and what makes you better than the RPGnet mods. You're willing to own up to putting them in a ghetto. (Also to those here who claimed that shunting off story games wasn't doing this.)

While I disagree with you on story games, and think you're being stupid about it, at least you are honest and up front about it - and you're willing to tolerate disagreement on this.

I'd prefer it if this war thing were dropped, but I'm willing to live with it, and this remains one of my preferred sites.

James Gillen · July 03, 2012, 10:53:20 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;556156The critical difference of course is that over there, a forum allegedly about RPGs shunted the biggest, most popular RPG of all time into a ghetto. Whereas over here, I've shunted games that aren't actually RPGs into a ghetto.

RPGPundit

Yeah, but unfortunately with RPG.net most of the flaming and trolling is on the D&D board. EVEN considering Tangency. A quick look at the main tag cloud will make this obvious.

JG

John Morrow · July 03, 2012, 11:31:03 PM

Quote from: jhkim;556169While I disagree with you on story games, and think you're being stupid about it, at least you are honest and up front about it - and you're willing to tolerate disagreement on this.

I don't think I'd have any problem with this if they were tossed into a forum called "Story Games" instead of "Other Games". I don't think "Story Games" belong in a forum with computer games and board games any more than some of them belong in a forum with traditional role-playing games. And in the big scheme of things, I think it would better make the point he's trying to make which is that they are their own sort of game.

Marleycat · July 03, 2012, 11:56:27 PM

Quote from: James Gillen;556194Yeah, but unfortunately with RPG.net most of the flaming and trolling is on the D&D board. EVEN considering Tangency. A quick look at the main tag cloud will make this obvious.

JG

Sad thing is the D20 subforum at TBP is a toxic cesspool made worse by the policy of heavy moderation many times more heavy than the rest of the site. At this point actual discussion is virtually impossible because of that passive aggressive cover your ass mentality on that board.

James Gillen · July 04, 2012, 12:27:26 AM

Quote from: Marleycat;556210Sad thing is the D20 subforum at TBP is a toxic cesspool made worse by the policy of heavy moderation many times more heavy than the rest of the site. At this point actual discussion is virtually impossible because of that passive aggressive cover your ass mentality on that board.

Exactly.

jg

Ghost Whistler · July 04, 2012, 02:48:31 AM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;556068Well, then it seems like the fix is an easy one. Rename this forum to "traditional role-playing games", and add a subforum called "storygames"

That way you have an official policy that enables you to move any storygaming talk out of this main forum without coming off as just moving it to be a dick.

Well, no. You would still need a definition of terms which is something even the hobby and indsutry as a whole hasn't done.

Ghost Whistler · July 04, 2012, 02:57:40 AM

Quote from: The Traveller;556071Banishment in this case bears exactly no consequences. In other words its not banishment. The "backroom forum" is as publicly available as any other forum.

This comes down to wanting storygames to be recognised as RPGs. They aren't. WoW bills itself as an RPG too, but it isn't, in exactly the same way.

Spurious comparison aside, who are you to say that Apocalypse World isn't an rpg?

Ghost Whistler · July 04, 2012, 03:00:22 AM

Quote from: Benoist;556075Precisely so. All the rest is just a smoke screen.

No, it's wanting roleplaying games to be recognised as roleplaying games. Anything else is just personal prejudice. Moving threads to another forum is clearly intended to limit discussion, otherwise why move them at all?

Do we stop discussing Vampire the Masquerade in the rpg forum? As i recall it was the 'storytelling game of personal horror'. What's next?

And stop whining about how easy it is to look in the open forum when you know that isn't the point at all.

Ghost Whistler · July 04, 2012, 03:05:21 AM

Quote from: CRKrueger;556109He is, he just hates that FFG hasn't made an Eldar game yet, or Dark Heresy doesn't work with just two players or whatever the hell else.

That's right.

Ghost Whistler · July 04, 2012, 03:06:48 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;556120It is funny how many of the people who call for this site to have "clear rules" are clearly demanding it so they can skirt the edge of said rules and manipulate them to push their agendas, huh?

RPGPundit

Clear rules, or a clear definition of what constitues an rpg as opposed to any other game?

Anything else is your paranoia.

Ghost Whistler · July 04, 2012, 03:07:57 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;556122I very much doubt any Storygamers will be coming over here from RPG.net looking for "free speech" since storygames, falling under the definition of what the modclique considers fashionable, are a protected subject over there.

And if they really have a problem with discussing their non-roleplaying games in the "other games forum", which they would be welcome to do to their heart's delight, they could always go make some other forum.. maybe some place called "storygames"... oh, wait, that place already exists.

RPGPundit

So what exactly are you trying to achieve with your wacky little banner ad?

Ghost Whistler · July 04, 2012, 03:10:35 AM

Quote from: One Horse Town;556150It's in the forum description.

The main forum is for discussion of traditional RPGs. The other games forum's for all others.

The only problem with that charactisation is that a few people have problems with what Pundit classes a storygame.

So what consitutes a traditional rpg? DnD? How about Marvel Heroic Roleplaying? Kaotic? Savage Worlds? Legends of the Wulin? FATE? WFRP3e?

This limitation is so pointless and self defeating.

Ghost Whistler · July 04, 2012, 03:11:50 AM

Quote from: Novastar;556101WH40k RPG is one of the few areas where I and Pundit disagree, actually. He see's it as "misery tourism", where as I enjoy the "grim darkness".

While trudging through dank dungeons to steal other people's relics and slaughter things is happy times at the Waltons homestead.

RPGPundit · July 04, 2012, 03:13:52 AM

Quote from: John Morrow;556204I don't think I'd have any problem with this if they were tossed into a forum called "Story Games" instead of "Other Games". I don't think "Story Games" belong in a forum with computer games and board games any more than some of them belong in a forum with traditional role-playing games. And in the big scheme of things, I think it would better make the point he's trying to make which is that they are their own sort of game.

I'm not interested in making a sub-board here for CCGs, or computer games, or even war games (which I actually even play and everything), so why would I make a sub-board for storygames? All of those have in common the fact that they have some historical or mechanical relationship with RPGs in some form or another, but are not actually RPGs. I would think that it very much makes the statement that "storygames are their own sort of game" when they're put into the "OTHER games" forum along with computer games, MMORPGS, CCGs and wargames.

RPGPundit