Quote from: J Arcane;552700And this post doesn't seem to have any relevance to the actual topic of the thread.

It kinda does though, since it starts out with a reference to the "Rape Culture" argument and goes on to use that to justify a "ratings system" presumably with the blessing of the swine herd. Subtext: if we don't find your work politically correct, we'll poison the entire internet against it with a passive aggressive rating.

A- Adult themes, most games.
XA- Don't buy this.

Basically they are trying to institutionalise the shitstorm.

Quote from: GRIM;552679That's a Kickstarter I'd donate to.

ditto.  at least some good has come of this thread, more grats for finally banning BT :hatsoff:

Quote from: John Morrow;552387Not what he said, Benoist, and unless you are turning into an RPGnet trap moderator, you should know that.

Ben has been that since day one. In addition, he trolls almost as hard as BT did, he just doesn't swear when he does it.

Quote from: James Gillen;552621I think that as they allow themselves to be trolled like this for the sake of the correct "sociopolitical agenda", more and more people within the industry will see RPG.net as more a liability to them than an asset.  

That train has left the station long ago.    Most of the larger companies have no presence (or come in once every month or so to comment on threads about their games) -- the only active participants are start-ups looking to grab some attention, or part-time hobbyists looking to flex their "I'm in the industry" ego-stroke.

But largely, in private correspondence (and increasingly, public as well), and face-to-face gatherings at Conventions, RPGnet is soundly mocked by pretty much everybody in the industry.

Quote from: RobMuadib;552631Yeah, I would like to see industry people quit advertising there, I saw several mongoose banners while skimming the MongRape thread. BS.

Keep in mind that most advertisers there aren't ever dealing with RPGNet directly.  They pay for advertising via Ed Healy's Gamerati Advertising Network, which blanket-serves most of the larger sites out there.  (See here:  http://gamerati.com/ads/ )

Quote from: GMSkarka;552732Keep in mind that most advertisers there aren't ever dealing with RPGNet directly.  They pay for advertising via Ed Healy's Gamerati Advertising Network, which blanket-serves most of the larger sites out there.  (See here:  http://gamerati.com/ads/ )

I was just going to mention that.  When I purchase ad runs with Ed, I don't specify which site to host those on.  Rather, they are bundled to various sites within the package.

Quote from: GRIM;552680If anyone wants to ask me about any aspect of this clusterfuck I'm willing to give my version of events from my side.

The only places where discussion on this has been relatively sane is here and on 4chan (bizarrely) and 4chan keeps deleting the threads.

Plus, y'know, I can swear here...

Thank you for the opportunity.

I think after an exhausting effort everyone has pretty much sussed out the long and the short of it.

I believe denizens of therpgsite have superiour critical thinking skills...even if emotional maturity can be found lacking...

...I do not exclude myself from this...

//Panjumanju

Quote from: Rum Cove;552522Actually, he wrote "Duh", which could have meant just about anything coming from that guy.

I actually quoted him directly, so not only do I know what he posted, I displayed it for everyone else as well. IMO, the context surrounding his "duh" makes his meaning fairly clear. I stand by my opinion on this issue.

Quote from: Rum Cove;552524Not at all, but if he's the ambassador for this site, it's unfortunate.

If I'm the only one seeing it, so be it.

It seems to me you are, so it perhaps might be more helpful for you to examine your own perceptions rather than pass judgement on Ben's moderating.

Quote from: John Morrow;552561It's generally only a crime if a reasonable person believes that the violence is likely to be carried out and the characteristic of those dismissing or approving of the threats in question is that they don't appear to believe there is any chance of what was being threatened actually happening.  If that wasn't the standard, then there are quite a few people who should be in jail that aren't.  Yes, I agree it's wrong whether it's a crime or not, but if they are going to start banning people for expressing a wrong opinion here, I'd like a list of wrong opinions that I need to not express.  For all of its faults, RPGnet gives one that courtesy, which is why I've never been banned there, even when I've expressed conservative opinions on Tangency.

Actually no (I'm wrong, see edit below). It's always a crime. It might only be prosecuted if a reasonable person believes that the violence is likely to be carried out, but that's a different issue. Apparently, however, it's not always called "assault" anymore, there are degrees from something like "Verbal intimidation" up to stuff like "Criminal threatening". Plus, this stuff isn't rigidly defined, so it's very much up to the jurisdiction and judge's interpretation. For example, the NC law states:

Quote from: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-277.1.
Communicating threats. (1999)(a) A person is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor if without lawful authority:

(1) He willfully threatens to physically injure the person or that person's child, sibling, spouse, or dependent or willfully threatens to damage the property of another;

(2) The threat is communicated to the other person, orally, in writing, or by any other means;

(3) The threat is made in a manner and under circumstances which would cause a reasonable person to believe that the threat is likely to be carried out; and

(4) The person threatened believes that the threat will be carried out.

(b) A violation of this section is a Class 1 misdemeanor.

Edit: Well hell, my example actually supports your statement John, so I'll stand corrected. However, the tricky part is still how "reasonable person" is defined, and how believable/credible the victim is when they say they believe that the threat will be carried out, which to me translates to how good an attorney the defense can afford to hire.

As for the opinion bit, I believe Pundit answered this already. It's not about opinion but being disruptive in this instance. Honestly, I think you'll know the "wrong opinion" when you see it. Creating a "hostile environment" for either specific poster, or group of posters, has never been tolerated here and has long been known to be one of the few bannable offenses. I seriously don't see how anyone can actually complain about the mod policy here with a straight face. Despite the support for relatively free speech, this place is not a democracy. It boggles my mind that no matter how much of a douchebag the banned person was, there's always someone complaining about them getting banned. My response is "get over it" none of us have guns held to our heads forcing us to read and/or post here. Not liking the policy enforcement? There are plenty of other forums around.

Quote from: GRIM;552686My impression is that it's just a place to laugh contemptuously at nerds that this group of nerds don't like. It's trolls and borderline trolls at best I think.

Quote from: vytzka;552693A bunch of dorks who feel that their choice of dorky pastimes makes them more enlightened than you.

Oh and you have to pay to post there. Or have a custom avatar. Or do any number of other shit.

Taking for granted that they are trollish, do these grognards.txt guys know alot about games or do they play games? What is their point? What do they like and dislike? Are they 20-somethings rather than 30-somethings? How has that thread lasted since 2002? Gaming is not something you can mock unless you are steeped in it, right?

Quote from: _kent_;552747Taking for granted that they are trollish, do these grognards.txt guys know alot about games or do they play games? What is their point? What do they like and dislike? Are they 20-somethings rather than 30-somethings? How has that thread lasted since 2002? Gaming is not something you can mock unless you are steeped in it, right?

They like 4E.  Only 4e.  All others are shit.  All people who have an opinion of it in the negative, or an opinion in the positive for any other edition or game, are thus "grognards" and worthy only of mockery and trolling.  

It is not at all coincidence that the D20 forum on RPGnet is a place of constant festering 4e boosterism wars, because many of the instigators are Goons, some under the same names, some probably under other names.

Quote from: J Arcane;552751They like 4E.  Only 4e.  All others are shit.  All people who have an opinion of it in the negative, or an opinion in the positive for any other edition or game, are thus "grognards" and worthy only of mockery and trolling.  

It is not at all coincidence that the D20 forum on RPGnet is a place of constant festering 4e boosterism wars, because many of the instigators are Goons, some under the same names, some probably under other names.

4e, ahh. I haven't spent any time on rpgnet. Is a 'goon' a contributor to grognards.txt?

The more I read of grognards.txt the more they come across as a generation of snot-nosed kids who, resentful of their smarter older brothers whom they never quite understood, were brainwashed at uni into thinking political correctness is hip and they will spend the rest of their lives telling others how behave having been given this licence by cranky ineffectual academics.

Quote from: _kent_;5527634e, ahh. I haven't spent any time on rpgnet. Is a 'goon' a contributor to grognards.txt?

The more I read of grognards.txt the more they come across as snot-nosed kids who, resentful of their smarter older brothers whom they never quite understood, were brainwashed at uni into thinking political correctness is hip and they are the sort who will spend the rest of their lives telling others how they should behave.

Somethingawful's forum users are broadly referred to as "goons".  It goes back to SA's history when Lowtax would point people at an "Awful Link of the Day" and tell readers of SA to go check it out, and they'd post in the forum(s) on said site, or spam the guestbook, etc.  Unleashing the "goon squad" on them as it were, and the moniker stuck.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;552765Somethingawful's forum users are broadly referred to as "goons".  It goes back to SA's history when Lowtax would point people at an "Awful Link of the Day" and tell readers of SA to go check it out, and they'd post in the forum(s) on said site, or spam the guestbook, etc.  Unleashing the "goon squad" on them as it were, and the moniker stuck.

I'll bet psychologists absolutely love that site.

Quote from: _kent_;5527634e, ahh. I haven't spent any time on rpgnet. Is a 'goon' a contributor to grognards.txt?

The more I read of grognards.txt the more they come across as a generation of snot-nosed kids who, resentful of their smarter older brothers whom they never quite understood, were brainwashed at uni into thinking political correctness is hip and they will spend the rest of their lives telling others how behave having been given this licence by cranky ineffectual academics.

Oh no, oh no.

Goons don't care one whit about political correctness.  That they've chosen Grim's blog post as the rally point for the latest swarm is largely coincidence, and the fact that several of their RPGnet-side agents know it's an issue that will push buttons there.  

They are trolls, pure and simple.  Think of them as a more petulant and less ominous version of Anonymous.  The schoolyard bully brigade, to 4chan's faceless sociopathic mass.  

This is a site where profligate swearing and accusations of sexual perversion are considered valid points in an argument.  A whole gaggle of shits who behave like a 13-year old who's just discovered the word "fuck" and the existence of anime porn.