I think Marvel has the rights to MSH, unless Jeff Grubb had a deal with TSR where he got the rights to the system back when the line was cancelled.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;506481I'm still waiting for Beyond HUman from Eden.

:rotfl:

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;506481I'm still waiting for Beyond HUman from Eden.

And I still have MSHAG despite somehow losing the fucking cards.

You do wonder why someone doesn't just get the rights to the old MSH system and just reprint that. It'd fly off the shelves!

I wish we could. Seriously it would be awesome thing to do.

Although, I think H&S2E, will be a bit more Marvel like in some ways than 1E.  An improved setting, and I'm explaining everything, so its begun to look like Marvel. Like how Agility can be used to catch things, or Might to block attacks, and so on.

Although I've fudged the real world a lot for my setting. (Two small cities fictionally altered to be one huge one after a devastating event and fewer economic crashes over the years, so I've got a sufficiently suitable supers environment.


I love MSH, and if they hadn't stopped printing it, I'd likely never have written a superhero game. I just hope people see 2E in a better light. Especially since I've got rules for how banter impacts play!

It will be interesting to see how the GM presented as the Watcher mechanic works and how exactly the game handles forced narrative as opposed to regular rail-roading.

It may not create the desired effect by pitting player and GM against each other. It can work, if handled well (Deadlands to a certain extent, and 7th Sea in which the GM had his own set of drama dice to upset the players plans and ensure their villains got away to fight another day.

Do I want to see another superhero RPG? No.
Do I want to see another Marvel RPG? No.
Do I want to see this RPG? Oddly yes, but I dislike the Cortex system as its rather ineptly designed and implemented.

The main thing that made me pre-order the Marvel game (aside from my inner nerd wanting to collect every supers game regardless of how good or shite it is) is that the author, Cam Banks, frequents various forums and answers questions, sets people straight and interacts. That to me is better than buying blind (as I have done with other games) only to find that they are garbage, and I like that, so I figured I'd say 'thanks' and order the book.

That said, I still don't have a damn clue how the Cortex system works, and as far as I can tell, Characters are super powered or REALLY super powered (meaning they have d10 for some vague catch all attribute or d12). If I were comparing the old FASERIP game it would be like saying everyone with Amazing strength to Unearthly strength has d12. Everyone Remarkable to Incredible has d10.

Kind of makes a lot of characters look and play the same, and that's the part that baffles me. If Hulk is really the strongest there is, how come She Hulk, Thing, Colossus, Wonder Man, Thor, Silver Surfer, Rogue, Miss Marvel, Rhino, Abomination, Iron Man, Hercules, Namor, and every other heavy lifter in the Marvel Universe is as strong?

I'll wait and see what happens when I open the pages for a read, but I'm kind of cringing that it will be complete and utter shit when I want and hope for it to be great, best thing since sliced bread and all that. They are doing everything else differently - rather than sourcebooks about Avengers and X men and all that, they are covering events. That said... I think you'll end up finding if you want the stats for a specific team you'll end up looking across several books, which is good for them, bad if I want the current line up of the Avengers to run for a game and only have one or two books.

I try not to judge a game based on hearsay and my own inability to understand the rules but the Smallville system uses a form of the cortex system I believe, and that uses Duty, Glory, Justice, Love, Power, and Truth as stats... Let's see, Hulk has... d12 power and ... uh. Hmmm. Justice, he kind of likes to do the right thing. d6? So, uh, duty... glory ... truth? *tumble of weed as character writeup stalls indefinitely*

When a superhero fights a supervillain, his ability to win a chatwar is kind of secondary to how hard he knocks bad guys teeth through his butt. That's the part where I'm confused about the Cortex system, and hero games are all about guys in tights knocking each other about and blasting stuff.

Well, at least I thought they were supposed to be... :confused:

Quote from: APN;506605I try not to judge a game based on hearsay and my own inability to understand the rules but the Smallville system uses a form of the cortex system I believe, and that uses Duty, Glory, Justice, Love, Power, and Truth as stats... Let's see, Hulk has... d12 power and ... uh. Hmmm. Justice, he kind of likes to do the right thing. d6? So, uh, duty... glory ... truth? *tumble of weed as character writeup stalls indefinitely*

I could be misremembering, but I think I read Cam Banks claim over at tBP that the game system's explicitly not as abstract (storygamey?) as Smallville. Which most seemed to interpret, hopefully, as a game about garishly costumed superbeings beating the ever-loving snot out of each other, as opposed to high school drama with superpowers.

I have some sentimental attachment to ol' MSH (TSR/FASERIP) but I can't say I'm fond of the system (I don't hate it either). If I was to run a Marvel-verse supers game, I'd probably use ICONS (which feels like MSH but plays better) or Supers! (which is my go-to rules-lite supers game) and convert the old MSH supplements (which by the way picture their characters at what I deem a far more interesting juncture in continuity than whatever Marvel's putting out right now. Stopped buying circa 1997 with the Onslaught fiasco and never looked back).

Quote from: APN;506605The main thing that made me pre-order the Marvel game (aside from my inner nerd wanting to collect every supers game regardless of how good or shite it is) is that the author, Cam Banks, frequents various forums and answers questions, sets people straight and interacts. That to me is better than buying blind (as I have done with other games) only to find that they are garbage, and I like that, so I figured I'd say 'thanks' and order the book.
When a superhero fights a supervillain, his ability to win a chatwar is kind of secondary to how hard he knocks bad guys teeth through his butt. That's the part where I'm confused about the Cortex system, and hero games are all about guys in tights knocking each other about and blasting stuff.

I don't have my copy of Leverage atm, but iirc Cortex + resolution is two dice (In Leverage, it's Attribute + Role), plus bonus dice from Talents, plus bonus dice from the situation (The equivalent of situational modifiers in other games). Roll, total the two highest, and that's your result.

GM does the same thing (Falling back to 2d6 if other dice aren't appropriate) and highest score wins.

If the GM rolls any 1's, they're Opportunities for the character (Which are good!), and if the player rolls any 1's, they're Complications for the character (Which are bad!).

Dice are always added, not subtracted, due to the way the resolution works; adding smaller dice to the pool, for example, isn't likely to affect your final result - because it's always just the highest two dice - but it will make you more likely to score a 1 and a complication. Similarly, adding more dice is more likely to make you roll a 1, complicating the situation; the more resources the PC calls on, the more likely it is something is going to go wrong.

My guess is that, for example, even if Hulk and Iron Man (Frex) both have Strength d12, Hulk would have a talent that lets him roll extra dice on anything involving being bloody strong (Because it's his thing), so if he engages in a strength-off with Iron Man (Who is incidentally strong), he's more likely to win. Any time someone doesn't have an appropriate talent to oppose something, it'll probably fall-back to a standard die.

Thanks for trying to explain it, but I'm still none the wiser. I'd have to have a step by step breakdown of a combat to go 'ah!' I think. I'm probably just thick.

The Captain America writeup:



Still none the frakkin wiser...

Quote from: The Butcher;506630I could be misremembering, but I think I read Cam Banks claim over at tBP that the game system's explicitly not as abstract (storygamey?) as Smallville. Which most seemed to interpret, hopefully, as a game about garishly costumed superbeings beating the ever-loving snot out of each other, as opposed to high school drama with superpowers.

I have some sentimental attachment to ol' MSH (TSR/FASERIP) but I can't say I'm fond of the system (I don't hate it either). If I was to run a Marvel-verse supers game, I'd probably use ICONS (which feels like MSH but plays better) or Supers! (which is my go-to rules-lite supers game) and convert the old MSH supplements (which by the way picture their characters at what I deem a far more interesting juncture in continuity than whatever Marvel's putting out right now. Stopped buying circa 1997 with the Onslaught fiasco and never looked back).

I own every Marvel game out, and whilst the FASERIP game got played to death by our group as soon as DC Heroes turned up (1e on) that was it. never played it since (tried to with the Advanced game, but it only made me want to play DC more).

The Marvel Saga game I've got in front of me and I find it vague. Combat as far as I can tell works like : you try to hit the bad guy and try to dodge the bad guy. Can't find anyone who can tell me exactly how it works as the fansite has tumble weed blowing through it.

The Marvel Universe (stones, diceless) game is playable but very vague in places. Plays surprisingly well online (and the community is going strong for it), character creation is fast but again, it's open to interpretation and min/maxing. Someone who knows the rules inside out could make a starting character to beat Hulk I expect (I never could, though I'm sure it could be done). Of all the Marvel games, I think this had the most potential and a second edition would've done better I think.

As for the games you mention, I have them in PDF (both bought in Tsunami/disaster relief bundles I think?) and not played either. I'm most interested in systems that play well by forum as my forum group is scattered across the world. We use Golden Heroes/Squadron UK but the longer the game goes on, the clearer it is the game is firmly rooted at street level when the players are ready to reach for the stars.

I'm writing my own houseruled version of DC Heroes to use specifically by forum, but the more I write it, the less it looks like the MEG system. We'll see what happens if/when it's done.*

Interested to hear your take on Icons and Supers (as in, play by forum - good or no?) and from anyone who can explain Marvel Saga combat to an imbecile like me. :huhsign:


*when books are holographic and we're all neurally networked feeding a giant computer with our brainwaves.

Oh god, complications.  I really hope I can't hit Spidey in the Mary Jane.

What that character sheet doesn't tell me is how well Captain America resists one of Professor X's mind bolts (or whatever he uses) or what happens if Doc Strange blasts him with the furry cock cheese of Agamemnon spell. Those specialities give the nearest clue I guess. How well does he spot something odd about a situation, as he does in the comics?

I dunno. FASERIP gave a good idea of how smart, tough, strong, intuitive and strong willed the character was and how well he compared to other characters, and what level to set an adventure at (Cosmic heralds only if in the Avengers, but he's fine from street-mid power level). With this writeup? I have no clue.

Quote from: APN;506639Thanks for trying to explain it, but I'm still none the wiser. I'd have to have a step by step breakdown of a combat to go 'ah!' I think. I'm probably just thick.

The Captain America writeup:



Still none the frakkin wiser...

Hmm; looking at that, my guess is that your standard action roll is going to be one of team affiliation (So if he's solo at the moment Cap'll pick up a d6, with a buddy a d8, and in a group a d10), plus any other die of the appropriate size, then roll 'em.

So as a quick and dirty example, Captain America sees some rocks about to fall on a nearby group of schoolchildren. Oh no! This looks like something a Superhero could handle! So he charges in, and let's say he picks up:

* d6 - He's acting on his own (Solo)
* d4 - He's "leading by example". We'll take the d4 because, while it makes a complication more likely, it'll give him a Plot Point (Generic fate adjuster token) to use later
* d12 - Godlike durability, as he attempts to hide under his shield
* d8 - Enhanced reflexes, which he uses to get there faster

Cap rolls those dice, picks the two highest.

GM decides that the rocks are worth 2 d8 (They're potentially very deadly, after all) and rolls his dice.

Highest total wins.

There's probably a lot more to it (Some of the options look like they will let you muck about with die steps and exploit opportunities), but that looks like a pretty solid sheet to me.

I like that "milestone XP" concept. Powers look pretty simple, too, and adding new ones should be pretty easy.

Quote from: APN;506643Interested to hear your take on Icons and Supers (as in, play by forum - good or no?) and from anyone who can explain Marvel Saga combat to an imbecile like me. :huhsign:

Zero experience with play-by-forum, sorry.

Supers! is fast and loose. It's very, very easy to stat up a character; you have a set number of dice (typically 25-30D) to spread between Resistances, Powers, Skills (or is it Talent? No matter) and Adavantages. 1D of anything costs 1D, whether it's a Resistance or a Power or a Skill (or is it Talent? No matter), and all Advantages cost 1D apiece. Powers are somewhat broadly defined, e.g. Energy Control (choose type), with Bonuses and Limitations which better refine what ou want them to represent (e.g. Atack Only if all you want is an energy blast; Device if it's a ray gun). You can theoretically attack and defend with any Power (save specific Limitation), which means you can defend against Telepathy with your Super-Strength... if you can persuade the GM (tricky part). As you can see, a lot is left up to the GM and the players, the rules mostly get out of your way. There's also a nice chapter on what superheroes can do to assist in case of natural disasters, a nice change of pace from villain-punching (or maybe just a change of scenery, see the recent Gotham earthquake for inspiration).

ICONS is a FATE game only in that it uses of Aspects, which are broken down into Qualities (postive, taggable aspects which seem purposefully vague, i.e. apt to be tagged in almost any situation) and Challenges (negative Aspects that fuel the Fate Point pool, here called Determination). Unlike most FATE games, there are attributes, which, like the powers, are deliberately evocative of MSH. Also plays quick, no-frills, in combat and similar situations.

No experience with Marvel Saga or MU.

Quote from: Ladybird;506652There's probably a lot more to it (Some of the options look like they will let you muck about with die steps and exploit opportunities), but that looks like a pretty solid sheet to me.

Hmm, well I'm still not sure it can handle the Hulk, but it looks like the dice can step up to 3d6 possibly with using more then two values, so maybe.

In any case Ladybird's convinced me to check it out just to see what the Cortex+ version can do without the Soap Opera bullshit added in.

Quote from: CRKrueger;506683Hmm, well I'm still not sure it can handle the Hulk, but it looks like the dice can step up to 3d6 possibly with using more then two values, so maybe.

In any case Ladybird's convinced me to check it out just to see what the Cortex+ version can do without the Soap Opera bullshit added in.

I'm curious about that die-splitting bit, because Cortex+ has you rolling your dice in a bunch. I presume what it means is that instead of putting a d8 into your roll, you're putting in 2 d6's; "die steps" is probably the usual d4 - d6 - d8 - d10 - d12 range.

"Enhanced", "Godlike", "Master" and "Expert" look like keywords, signifying "better than average"; a character without them would probably be considered to have a d6 in "Attributes" (Durability, Reflexes, Stamina, Strength, etc).

My guess is the Hulk would have something like solo d10 / buddy d8 / team d6; "On the run", "Strongest in the world" and something else for distinctions; an ability not too dissimilar to "Super-Soldier Program" to represent the Hulk form; a similar mental ability to represent Bruce Banner, with some sort of "Limit" forcing him to become the Hulk at inconvenient times. Dunno about specialities and special XP rewards. On paper, he probably won't look overwhelmingly more powerful, but the player would bring it out in play.