Quote from: Melan;631497Lankhmar:

• a sinful city done right, with a strong hint of strangeness
• rats and various rat-like things/people/gods
• the best way to make sense of 1st edition AD&D

Forgot about Lankhmar. Wouldn't give D&D credit for that one though, anymore than I'd give GURPs credit for Discworld.

Quote from: TristramEvans;631460Yeah, I've been running it with other systems for a while, most recently the Tribe 8 system by DP9. That said, its the game that got me playing AD&D 2nd again for the first time in years back in the late 90s. Maybe not the best system for it, but I do have fond memories of that system, especially when compared to WoTC's offerings in that regard thus far.

I think Planescape deserved a more open and freeform system. One that allows (and even provoke) the players to explore the infinite, weird and surreal possibilities the setting presents. Planescape is to fantasy what transhumanism is to sci-fi, and its system should reflect that. Just like Eclipse Phase and Transhuman Space allows you to be an intelligent octopus or a bodyless AI, Planescape should allow you to be a cranium rats gestalt, a forgotten god, or an amnesiac boatmen from the Styx looking for answers in the Hive in Sigil.

Quote from: silva;631519I think Planescape deserved a more open and freeform system. One that allows (and even provoke) the players to explore the infinite, weird and surreal possibilities the setting presents. Planescape is to fantasy what transhumanism is to sci-fi, and its system should reflect that. Just like Eclipse Phase and Transhuman Space allows you to be an intelligent octopus or a bodyless AI, Planescape should allow you to be a cranium rats gestalt, a forgotten god, or an amnesiac boatmen from the Styx looking for answers in the Hive in Sigil.

If Everway had an actual system it would have been a damn good fit.

Quote from: silva;631519I think Planescape deserved a more open and freeform system. One that allows (and even provoke) the players to explore the infinite, weird and surreal possibilities the setting presents. Planescape is to fantasy what transhumanism is to sci-fi, and its system should reflect that. Just like Eclipse Phase and Transhuman Space allows you to be an intelligent octopus or a bodyless AI, Planescape should allow you to be a cranium rats gestalt, a forgotten god, or an amnesiac boatmen from the Styx looking for answers in the Hive in Sigil.

If you're into FATE (I ain't), I nominate Legends of Anglerre.

Quote from: TristramEvans;631498Forgot about Lankhmar. Wouldn't give D&D credit for that one though, anymore than I'd give GURPs credit for Discworld.

Definitely, although the TSR treatment (the first version; the second is a slightly inferior reprint and the third is allegedly a travesty) is a very usable game book. Not as good as City State of the Invincible Overlord, but what is?

It seems silly to me to think that Planescape needs to be run with some kind of (usually pretentious) system to be "right", when the very core of the setting is inextricably tied to the cosmology that D&D created for itself, that only makes sense in the context of D&D.

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Of course, I also think that Planescape was the most lame-ass treatment the planes ever got in D&D. They took the ultimate high-level adventuring locale and turned it into a place of utterly banal mundane stupidity.  And in that sense, it almost makes sense: if you divorce all the stuff that shouldn't have been there in the first place from the rest (you know, all the stuff that was really D&D, which was all the stuff that didn't suck about planescape), you could run said banal drivel as a pretentious setting with some rules-lite game system.

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Quote from: RPGPundit;631875It seems silly to me to think that Planescape needs to be run with some kind of (usually pretentious) system to be "right", when the very core of the setting is inextricably tied to the cosmology that D&D created for itself, that only makes sense in the context of D&D.

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The only thing that ties Planescape to D&D as a system is the alignments. And these could be replicated (or simply cut-and-pasted) easily to any other system.

Quote from: RPGPundit;631876Of course, I also think that Planescape was the most lame-ass treatment the planes ever got in D&D. They took the ultimate high-level adventuring locale and turned it into a place of utterly banal mundane stupidity.  And in that sense, it almost makes sense: if you divorce all the stuff that shouldn't have been there in the first place from the rest (you know, all the stuff that was really D&D, which was all the stuff that didn't suck about planescape), you could run said banal drivel as a pretentious setting with some rules-lite game system.

RPGpundit

I'm actually fond of the 3e Manual of the Planes.

That said, the Planescape setting has it's own flavor.

I think that folks tend to lump settings from different editions together, and then homogenize them across the board.  You can see this trend in your Forgotten Realms thread - instead of taking each edition as a new product, folks who have experience with the older material have a problem reading the new material as something different.

It's expressed in how people approach systems too, i.e. cherry picking rules and changing things around to how they like it.  AD&D is never run RAW, it's paired with as many other editions as the individual is familiar with to create something new.  Nothing wrong with that, but I think it can limit your vision with regards to changing games and settings.

Quote from: Blackhand;631950I think that folks tend to lump settings from different editions together, and then homogenize them across the board.

Things do tend to get lumped together.  It’s a pity.  The planes books from each edition certainly are a place to find interesting differences.  I do agree with Pundit on how they all make the planes too mundane. I don’t think that is a Planescape specific issue, since there is always more mundane than there should be in any of the treatments.  It is the sort of issue that a DM can overcome with out too much trouble, though.  Now that I'm talking about Planescape, I will say that I really like the Monster Compendium that was made for that setting.  It is my main AD&D 2 specific monster book, though I don't use it for Planescape.

I actually stopped by your blog Blackhand, and the notes on the Mordor focused Middle-earth campaign were interesting.


The original question?  Honestly, I will like a setting for a while and enjoy using it, but I always get sick of them at some point.  Familiarity breeds contempt and all that.  So, I'm often considering something different for the next campaign.

Quote from: Kuroth;631959Now that I'm talking about Planescape, I will say that I really like the Monster Compendium that was made for that setting.  It is my main AD&D 2 specific monster book, though I don't use it for Planescape.

I actually stopped by your blog Blackhand, and the notes on the Mordor focused Middle-earth campaign were interesting.

That MC Appendix might be the best one, at least one of the most useful, outside the Planescape setting. The first one anyways, I haven't tracked down much Planescape stuff yet.  I think I'm going to do that...now.

Thanks for checking out the blog!  The Mordor campaign was filled with PVP and player treachery, and was one of the more memorable campaigns we've played in the last few years.  Certainly a refreshing take on the setting.

Looks like we all need refreshing takes on old settings to make them interesting to us as individuals.

To the OP again, my main issue with Forgotten Realms is it seems all crushed up together, even more than Greyhawk.  Too many cultures, too many climate zone specific cultures.

Quote from: silva;631519I think Planescape deserved a more open and freeform system. One that allows (and even provoke) the players to explore the infinite, weird and surreal possibilities the setting presents. Planescape is to fantasy what transhumanism is to sci-fi, and its system should reflect that. Just like Eclipse Phase and Transhuman Space allows you to be an intelligent octopus or a bodyless AI, Planescape should allow you to be a cranium rats gestalt, a forgotten god, or an amnesiac boatmen from the Styx looking for answers in the Hive in Sigil.

I thought M&M 2nd would have worked okay for Planescape though I don't remember if you could "deadly up" the M&M combat system.  Would allow for the broad range of character types and power levels that you would see in the Planes.

Forgotten Realms
1) the setting, wich is big and varied, and supports wildly different campaigns, and has a really strong feel as well. A labour of love, wich shows. You can do both high/heroic fantasy and S&S with it, easy. The Western Heartlands, The Vast, the Cold Lands...great places.
2) the gods & their priesthoods, wich rock. The bad gods' priests make villains as varied as the setting, from "manipulative Banite darklord" to "insane Beshaba worshipping poisoner/serial killer" to "Wendol from 13th Warrior, I mean Malarites".
3) the history of the place. As long and as varied (well okay, 95% or so of all kingdoms through FR fell...forgotten Realms) as that of Erikson's Malazan imo.

Dark Sun (1e)
1) it's bloody grim. Battle for survival, pretty much non stop. Bad desperate people and horrible monsters everywhere. Impossible to make this dull.
2) S&S chats up S&P and has a kid with her basically. It's like a S&S take on S&P with all the cool weird monsters and alien stuff of the latter and the evil sorcerers and so on of the former, blended very well. Oh and the best baddie ever. The Dragon is just plain awesome.
3) badass PCs that yet don't feel like Sues. They have to be this tough.

Planescape
1) the art. Nothing wrong with the art of the others, either, but PS is just unbeatable here. DiTerlizzi ftw, seriously these are gorgeous works.
2) the monsters. No explanation needed (I entered rpging in the 2e era)
3) the Great Wheel & the Planes. They're just plain cool.

Quote from: Erstwhile;632006I thought M&M 2nd would have worked okay for Planescape though I don't remember if you could "deadly up" the M&M combat system.  Would allow for the broad range of character types and power levels that you would see in the Planes.

Dont really know M&M, but always heard its very flexible. I will take a look.

Quote from: The ButcherIf you're into FATE (I ain't), I nominate Legends of Anglerre.

A fast search in google showed a very interesting review. Im also not into Fate, but who knows.. maybe this could change my mind.

Quote from: TristramEvansIf Everway had an actual system it would have been a damn good fit[for Planescape].

Oh I hear you. Always had a big appreciation for Everway, but in the end it always felt too lightish and arbitrary for my tastes. Its one of those games you appreciate more over there, static on your shelf, than in actual play.

You know what I think they could do for Planescape ? A new special/deluxe edition of it (boxed, of course) using a very customized set of D&D rules, more or less what Gamma World 4E did, but much more well made and even more on the freak/gonzo side, all the while keeping the trope elements (alignments, classes, levels, monsters, etc) there.

I dont even like D&D, but I would crave to play something like that. They could even release the original box as is, with just a couple extra booklets containing the new rules.

Classes could be the types commonly seen through the books and fiction: Cager, Prime Blood, Knight of the Post, Collector, Witch doctor, Chant Broker, Champion, Dimensional Explorer, Planar Trader, Planar Hunter, Spiv, etc. The races could include a multitude of options, from the mundane to the completely bizarre: Cranium Rats gestalt, Abishai, Asura, Forgotten God, Ghost, Talking Monkey, Awekened spells, Rogue Modron, Stable Slaad, etc. Add to it the planar factions and voilá!

Quote from: Blackhand;631950I'm actually fond of the 3e Manual of the Planes.

So do I! I think it was leaps and bounds better than Planescape.

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