I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but if it isn't, I'll delete the post. Anyway, me and some friends are playing a 5e game, but we are having troubles with the base system, and we are looking to move to another system, the GM suggested pf2 (I am a player here), but we have a small problem. This is a VERY HB heavy game, and it's quite the weird homebrews, some examples:

- The custom setting has a lot of custom races, including: dragon wyrmlings, awakened beasts, insect like people and a generic furry race. The races are custom made, it's not "everything is the same just with a different coat of pain", like the Custom Race from Tasha's.

- My PC is a yuanti that is doing a HB feat chain to become an anathema. And I also gained a free feat due to plot stuff. The feat chain isn't just some visual change, it has mechanical repercussions (such as upgrading my racial spellcasting)

- We have an ilithid on the party. As per the first point, the race is a race, not just a reskin of something.

- The genie warlock has a limited spell (can do 1 wish/week, but that will come back to bite your ass, and during one week after using that, he has several debuffs), and might wish at the future (actual wish, no strings attached) to become a genie like his patron. Like my yuanti, this genie transformation will have mechanical effects, it won't be just a token change.

- We have custom magic items, metamagics, feats and more

- The GM has custom monsters with special mechanics (such as crab like thing that after recieving X bludgeoning damage loses it's shell and has it's statblock changed)

- And more stuff I either don't remember or we haven't seen  yet.

So yeah, our game is *weird*, and I know pf2 is very... balanced, for good and ill, and I don't know how well it would deal with all this stuff.

Anyway, thanks for answering, and sorry if I didn't express myself correctly, english isn't my first language and this is quite the weird situation.

PF2 is very ridgid. Have you tried Savage Worlds PF? More flexible and has a race builder.

I know that pf2 is very rigid, and I guess all of our weird/chaotic (what term should I even use?) stuff would be hard to fit there without breaking anything.

I know of savage worlds existance, but I know nothing on it, could you give me some information?

Why not stick with 5e? It's actually very homebrew friendly.

Quote from: LagiaDOS on February 07, 2022, 12:57:39 PM
I know that pf2 is very rigid, and I guess all of our weird/chaotic (what term should I even use?) stuff would be hard to fit there without breaking anything.

I know of savage worlds existance, but I know nothing on it, could you give me some information?

Its a psuedo point buy/level based system thats very customizable but is geared towards pulp games. It has a very different feel to D&D, but some recognizable elements.

Recently it had a large crossover with Pathfinder to make playing classic classes easier.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on February 07, 2022, 01:01:35 PM
Why not stick with 5e? It's actually very homebrew friendly.

There are tons of reasons. One is that its core maths are really bland.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 07, 2022, 01:05:04 PM

Quote from: LagiaDOS on February 07, 2022, 12:57:39 PM
I know that pf2 is very rigid, and I guess all of our weird/chaotic (what term should I even use?) stuff would be hard to fit there without breaking anything.

I know of savage worlds existance, but I know nothing on it, could you give me some information?

Its a psuedo point buy/level based system thats very customizable but is geared towards pulp games. It has a very different feel to D&D, but some recognizable elements.

Recently it had a large crossover with Pathfinder to make playing classic classes easier.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on February 07, 2022, 01:01:35 PM
Why not stick with 5e? It's actually very homebrew friendly.

There are tons of reasons. One is that its core maths are really bland.

Hmm... I don't think it will work for this campaign, but for another it should work. Can it deal with very unortodox characters? Such as slime creature and a literal dragon?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on February 07, 2022, 01:01:35 PM
Why not stick with 5e? It's actually very homebrew friendly.

As Banshee said, it has problems, it may deal with HB much better than pf2, but it has other problems (such as class design, bad core math, bad designs in general, etc)

Quote from: LagiaDOS on February 07, 2022, 01:14:51 PMHmm... I don't think it will work for this campaign, but for another it should work. Can it deal with very unortodox characters? Such as slime creature and a literal dragon?

Trivially. In Savage Rifts which has a much higher starting power level, there are starting options for "literal dragon".

You could make a toned down version if you wanted.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 07, 2022, 01:19:36 PM

Quote from: LagiaDOS on February 07, 2022, 01:14:51 PMHmm... I don't think it will work for this campaign, but for another it should work. Can it deal with very unortodox characters? Such as slime creature and a literal dragon?

Trivially. In Savage Rifts which has a much higher starting power level, there are starting options for "literal dragon".

You could make a toned down version if you wanted.

I see... then making a playable dragon wyrmling shouldn't be a problem, I'll try to check out SW in the future, it might be useful for that another campaign.

Quote from: LagiaDOS on February 07, 2022, 01:22:11 PM
I see... then making a playable dragon wyrmling shouldn't be a problem, I'll try to check out SW in the future, it might be useful for that another campaign.

If you want something closer to D&D and homebrewable, but with better core maths and refined design try out Worlds Without Number. Maybe mix in some godbound or Codex of the Black Sun.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 07, 2022, 01:32:10 PM

Quote from: LagiaDOS on February 07, 2022, 01:22:11 PM
I see... then making a playable dragon wyrmling shouldn't be a problem, I'll try to check out SW in the future, it might be useful for that another campaign.

If you want something closer to D&D and homebrewable, but with better core maths and refined design try out Worlds Without Number. Maybe mix in some godbound or Codex of the Black Sun.

What do you mean when you say 5e's core math is bad? I think you mean stuff like bounded accuracy leads to things like sack of hp monsters with low armor class and players easily being able to easily get high armor class monsters can't hit them amd stuff like that but im not sure.

Quote from: Slambo on February 07, 2022, 01:37:28 PMWhat do you mean when you say 5e's core math is bad? I think you mean stuff like bounded accuracy leads to things like sack of hp monsters with low armor class and players easily being able to easily get high armor class monsters can't hit them amd stuff like that but im not sure.

I can't go into all the details right now, but stuff like using stats for saves means 1/2 your stats remain complete unprotected with level gain, and the game still has save or suck.

There is also less mechanical progression in 5e over 20 levels then there is in OSR over 10. Except for HP bloat.

Quote from: Slambo on February 07, 2022, 01:37:28 PM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 07, 2022, 01:32:10 PM

Quote from: LagiaDOS on February 07, 2022, 01:22:11 PM
I see... then making a playable dragon wyrmling shouldn't be a problem, I'll try to check out SW in the future, it might be useful for that another campaign.

If you want something closer to D&D and homebrewable, but with better core maths and refined design try out Worlds Without Number. Maybe mix in some godbound or Codex of the Black Sun.

What do you mean when you say 5e's core math is bad? I think you mean stuff like bounded accuracy leads to things like sack of hp monsters with low armor class and players easily being able to easily get high armor class monsters can't hit them amd stuff like that but im not sure.

For example. Another example of bad math is an artificier's steel defender, 15 AC and 37 hp at lvl 6 is not very good... I can count in one hand the amount of times it has survived a fight.

Quote from: LagiaDOS on February 07, 2022, 11:48:31 AM
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but if it isn't, I'll delete the post. Anyway, me and some friends are playing a 5e game, but we are having troubles with the base system, and we are looking to move to another system, the GM suggested pf2 (I am a player here), but we have a small problem. This is a VERY HB heavy game, and it's quite the weird homebrews, some examples:

- The custom setting has a lot of custom races, including: dragon wyrmlings, awakened beasts, insect like people and a generic furry race. The races are custom made, it's not "everything is the same just with a different coat of pain", like the Custom Race from Tasha's.

- My PC is a yuanti that is doing a HB feat chain to become an anathema. And I also gained a free feat due to plot stuff. The feat chain isn't just some visual change, it has mechanical repercussions (such as upgrading my racial spellcasting)

- We have an ilithid on the party. As per the first point, the race is a race, not just a reskin of something.

- The genie warlock has a limited spell (can do 1 wish/week, but that will come back to bite your ass, and during one week after using that, he has several debuffs), and might wish at the future (actual wish, no strings attached) to become a genie like his patron. Like my yuanti, this genie transformation will have mechanical effects, it won't be just a token change.

- We have custom magic items, metamagics, feats and more

- The GM has custom monsters with special mechanics (such as crab like thing that after recieving X bludgeoning damage loses it's shell and has it's statblock changed)

- And more stuff I either don't remember or we haven't seen  yet.

So yeah, our game is *weird*, and I know pf2 is very... balanced, for good and ill, and I don't know how well it would deal with all this stuff.

Anyway, thanks for answering, and sorry if I didn't express myself correctly, english isn't my first language and this is quite the weird situation.

In some ways PF2 being balanced will actually make it easier to introduce home brew characters. 

Because it is built on a feat upgrade system having higher level characters will let you have races with all the bells and whistles that you would not get at level 1.

Just remember that a +1 is already a significant bonus in PF2 so be aware when factoring bonus features.

I've played in a Pathfinder 2 campaign for about 2 years. The good side of it is, it's really hard to make a character that doesn't work. The bad side of it is, if you stick to the core rules, most of the character choices you can make are not substantially different. The system is well balanced but (IMO) very homogenized.

In terms of homebrewing, I think the positives of Pathfinder 2 is that mathematically it's fairly easy to come up things and feel confident they won't be completely broken. The drawback is I think the system itself is not very expandable (it's deliberately removed massive amounts of complexity) without adding on a lot. My opinion is -- If you like homebrewing stuff for character reasons only, then I would do it. If you're trying to add unique new mechanical playstyles, then no.