SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

The Secret of Successful Sandboxes

Started by RPGPundit, February 19, 2023, 07:35:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Rafael

#30
I thought this was a pretty nice video, and I'd like the Pundit to do more like this one - even though it probably generates less overall interest than the more "business of the day"/"political" videos. This distinction between the "Chronicler" and the "Plotter", I'm going to steal.

I'm a friend of both playing styles, actually: Event-based games/"interactive storytelling based on D&D rules", and location-based games/"sandbox-style games". Both can be fun, both have their place at my gaming table. Like, my raison d'ĂȘtre in the oldschool community is that I've been running pretty effortlessly sandbox-y games for twenty-something years already. Now, I've probably run about as much horror/Ravenloft stuff as that, and I love both forms of gaming equally. That said, I think I'm observing a number of somewhat sad and worrisome trends especially among less experienced DMs that could probably be remedied quite easily:

First, that they think they need to tell a story, instead of playing with one. Second, that their stories need to be simulations. Third, that their stories need to be intricate and sophisticated, as if they are making a professional presentation. They give themselves no room to learn, and they measure themselves against industry pros. -- This creates an atmosphere at the gaming table that I don't like, especially in "half-open" environments like conventions or in new gaming groups. The feeling towards the DM should be one of attention, not one of pressure.

Now, as a grown-ass man, I can manage pressure. As a teen or tween, that was harder. I'd rather not want kids today to perceive gaming, as awe-inspiring as it may well be when you're new, as something that puts them under pressure when they try. - Like, the important thing about all of this should be that it's a recreational activity that creates good experiences for everyone involved. Kids that aren't going to have a good experience are not going to keep gaming.

crkrueger

I had rails, and GMPCs, and plots, and quantum ogres.  It was my very first campaign in grade school and I sucked.  I got better.

Players in general have gotten a lot more passive, expecting to be entertained, or a lot more captured by the meta thinking of storytelling instead of roleplaying.

All I can do is show by example.  New players can get "analysis paralysis", but I never GM all new players.  I always have experienced players there for them to learn from.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Rafael

Quote from: crkrueger on March 01, 2023, 10:14:23 AM
I had rails, and GMPCs, and plots, and quantum ogres.  It was my very first campaign in grade school and I sucked.  I got better.

Players in general have gotten a lot more passive, expecting to be entertained, or a lot more captured by the meta thinking of storytelling instead of roleplaying.

All I can do is show by example.  New players can get "analysis paralysis", but I never GM all new players.  I always have experienced players there for them to learn from.

Maybe it's a language issue, but a "rail", to me, would be stuff like "Masks of Nyarlathotep", or the "Grim Harvest" books for Ravenloft. Those are fun - but also, different fun than what especially oldschool-oriented D&D is supposed to be about. Especially the earliest editions of D&D simply seem a bad fit for modules like "Dragons of Despair", unless you're really willing to put some serious work in. I tend to think that this is where most newbies get confused: Like in the 80s and 90s, D&D is the game everyone wants to play - just that not everyone necessarily wants to play the game that is D&D.

One of the reasons why I think that even recent games like Symbaroum, Mournblade, Shadow of the Demonlord, or some of the recent Cthulhu variants have been so lastingly successful is just that - you get pretty specific instructions for pretty specific types of games. They simply work as advertised; D&D, especially in its most recent installments, often doesn't. Or, rather than that, D&D tends to be a much less predefined experience than other games, and that might confuse people even if everyone at the gaming table fundamentally still knows what they're doing.