Quote from: MelanIt is not.

Sure it is. Says right on the cover that it's for beginning players 1st to 3rd level.

Seanchai

Quote from: James McMurrayI'd have been amazed if it did, since all levels of play didn't exist when it was written.

Yeah. Kind of to use it as an example of how it's not tailored to the levels it lists on the front cover when nothing else existed. It's not as if there were 538 monsters floating around and they said, "You know what, we're not going to limit ourselves to a weaker set of foe."

Seanchai

Quote from: James McMurrayExcellent. You may all continue to ill in a fully licensed state.

I don't need your approval, Mr McMurray.  How insolent of you to --

-- but, uh, if you have some dry-roasted peanuts...those, I need.

For my sandbox.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I don't need your approval, Mr McMurray.  How insolent of you to --

-- but, uh, if you have some dry-roasted peanuts...those, I need.

For my sandbox.

Use the wet roasted ones. They make nicer mud balls.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I don't need your approval, Mr McMurray.  How insolent of you to --

-- but, uh, if you have some dry-roasted peanuts...those, I need.

For my sandbox.

Errrrr!!!!

I need to see that movie again.

AND NOW, BACK TO OUR THREAD!

I can't believe I missed The Last Dragon references again!








Vanity could still have me.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I got the power of The Glow.

When you got that  glow.

This is for Haffrung, who had a hissy fit and I didn't even call him an harebrained hypocrite this time. (Alliteration - two thumbs up!)

From Keep on the Borderlands, written by Gary Gygax, father of Haffrung's D&D. On page 4, about two thirds of the way down, "The DM is also the designer of the situations and must in mind the abilities of his or her players. It is the job of the DM to see that the situations and characters balance."

If you were here with me now, I'd give you a big smooth on your dumb ol' cheek. As you're not, you'll just have to settle for knowing I blew you a kiss as I finished typing the quote above.



For the rest of you, there are things in Keep on the Borderlands that seem to mesh with what's been presented about the sandbox style, but there's also a lot that doesn't, including some mention of pre-determination, wandering monster tables that get tougher as the players progress, etc.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiThis is for Haffrung, who had a hissy fit and I didn't even call him an harebrained hypocrite this time. (Alliteration - two thumbs up!)

From Keep on the Borderlands, written by Gary Gygax, father of Haffrung's D&D. On page 4, about two thirds of the way down, "The DM is also the designer of the situations and must in mind the abilities of his or her players. It is the job of the DM to see that the situations and characters balance."

If you were here with me now, I'd give you a big smooth on your dumb ol' cheek. As you're not, you'll just have to settle for knowing I blew you a kiss as I finished typing the quote above.



For the rest of you, there are things in Keep on the Borderlands that seem to mesh with what's been presented about the sandbox style, but there's also a lot that doesn't, including some mention of pre-determination, wandering monster tables that get tougher as the players progress, etc.

Seanchai

Sounds like a good example of something having a little of both playstyles included. Seems to me not everything has to line up with one or other of the extremes. I myself prefer sandbox-heavy games because I'm an explorer at heart, but I don't mind a good railroading sometimes too. Had a blast with Red Hand of Doom, and the Shackled City looks like it would be loads of fun too. Still, a good Wilderlands campaign with some hooks thrown my way occasionally, when the cash gets low, is my dream campaign.

Quote from: SigmundSounds like a good example of something having a little of both playstyles included. Seems to me not everything has to line up with one or other of the extremes. I myself prefer sandbox-heavy games because I'm an explorer at heart, but I don't mind a good railroading sometimes too. Had a blast with Red Hand of Doom, and the Shackled City looks like it would be loads of fun too. Still, a good Wilderlands campaign with some hooks thrown my way occasionally, when the cash gets low, is my dream campaign.

Hold on - are you suggesting the Red Hand of Doom fosters a different play experience than a sandbox Wilderlands campaign? Didn't you get Seanchai's memo: there are no different playstyles, and there's no such thing as sandbox play.

Quote from: HaffrungHold on - are you suggesting the Red Hand of Doom fosters a different play experience than a sandbox Wilderlands campaign? Didn't you get Seanchai's memo: there are no different playstyles, and there's no such thing as sandbox play.

Hey, didya hear, Gygax thinks: "The DM is also the designer of the situations and must in mind the abilities of his or her players. It is the job of the DM to see that the situations and characters balance."

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiHey, didya hear, Gygax thinks: "The DM is also the designer of the situations and must in mind the abilities of his or her players. It is the job of the DM to see that the situations and characters balance."

Seanchai

Yes, and? Using a Linear campaign approach makes that easier, if that's what the group desires in their games, but it's not impossible to balance encounters in a sandbox style campaign either. Most of the powerful and deadly threats are going to be extremely rare, and most likely holed up in areas of that map that are remote and said to contain great danger, otherwise the poor folk would be starving as the peasant farmers would have been killed off by bands of roving monsters. In exceedingly rare occasions, a beastie may come to inhabit an area more heavily lived in, in which case the rulers of the area would have the threat destroyed, if not by the pcs then by npc adventurers more capable of tackling the threat and in the meantime guards and warnings would be posted to minimize the damage to the population. If all else fails, run away from the dang "too-high-level-threat-accidentally-rolled-by-the-gm-and-then-stupidly (deep breath) still-injected-into-the-game-unadjusted-for-the-pc's-levels".

Quote from: SigmundYes, and?

And Gygax agrees, encounters should be balanced with the party.

Which wouldn't matter if Haffrung had been shouting, Pundy-style, that it's a 180 from how things used to be done in the day, that 3e, 3.5, 4e are forcing us all to play in a manner divorced from D&D's roots.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiAnd Gygax agrees, encounters should be balanced with the party.

Which wouldn't matter if Haffrung had been shouting, Pundy-style, that it's a 180 from how things used to be done in the day, that 3e, 3.5, 4e are forcing us all to play in a manner divorced from D&D's roots.

Seanchai

I just don't see what that has to do with there being different ways of designing and playing in a game world. I guess I'm missing something here.