The peripheral community that is a f*cking pox on our hobby

[Tommy Brownell]

I don't necessarily agree.


I do think that people who only participate in this hobby by buying books and talking about them.. aren't really participating in any meaningful or useful way, and may in fact be a pox. Eventually you end up with a culture almost entirely composed of reviewers and fan-fic writers, and pretend-designers.

I really WANNA run a game, but juggling a day job, a fledgling writing career, a wrestling career, plus wife and kids makes me one of the above FAR more than it makes ma an active participant...but its certainly not for lack of desire.

[Tommy Brownell]

Collectors virtually destroyed the comic industry, and I see the same thing with the RPG industry too.  Although it's more the companies that focus on selling to the collectors than the collectors themselves that are the problem.  You can't blame the collectors for enjoying what they do.

So it more "gaming companies that are too focused on the peripheral community" that is a f*cking pox on the hobby.

I am inclined to agree with this when I'm looking for Ultimate Power for Mutants & Masterminds and see Amazon sellers selling it for $150...as I want it for the intention of someday (hopefully) PLAYING with it, I waited out until I bought it from someone on RPG.net for $20.

[walkerp]

I'm guilty of buying and not playing, though I'm certainly no collector.  I just get excited about the games and want to play them and sometimes I buy them. Usually, due to real life, I don't end up having the time to play them.  

From my experience, there are a lot of people in the hobby in a similar situation.  I'd risk to say there are more owners of unplayed games in this category than in the true collector's category.

Having read the thread (and especially your point about the super tight settings with no space for PCs, J Arcane), I understand better the argument and it does seem like a concern, but not one at the level that is really hurting the hobby overall.  Especially when you factor in all the really good free stuff (and the Indie movement) that is focused much more on playing.

[Kyle Aaron]

It's a shame that most fantasy role-playing games don't have a "person from modern times" class/set of skills (or, similarly, "stranded time/space traveller").

Alas, they don't. And it's not just "D&D cartoon", it's an old fantasy idea. From Barsoom to Narnia, modern day people - and not just children - have been transported to fantasy worlds for generations. In fact, when my friend was setting up a Banestorm campaign, what turned me off it was that no-one was choosing to be such a character, they all wanted to be natives. Well, one guy was nominally from this world, but since he was choosing an alternate form and latent magical abilities and so on...

There are not enough such campaigns, what I call the "Stranger in a Strange Land" settings.

[Engine]

Alas, they don't. And it's not just "D&D cartoon", it's an old fantasy idea.

And more broadly, the "theme of initiation character," which is - strictly in my opinion - simultaneously the most convenient and most heinous means of introducing the reader to an unfamiliar world. It's delightful wish fulfillment, and as a tool is performs admirably, but perhaps because of this efficacy it always strikes me as too transparent [and thus a barrier to suspension of disbelief], and is certainly much-overused in science fiction and fantasy, again, strictly in my opinion.

[Kyle Aaron]

But much underused in rpgs.

[Aos]

And, like any other device- it can still be done well.

[Trevelyan]

Much original fantasy and sci-fi used the "man of our time in a strange world" concept one way or another. The notion of a complete and self contained fantasy or sci-fi setting with no link to our own, modern world is a relatively new feature of fantasy and didn't really catch on for the mainstream (i.e. outside of pulp) until LotR.

[Dirk Remmecke]

But much underused in rpgs.

Narnia the RPG

But even there it's only an option, as the book has full character creation guidelines for inhabitants of Narnia - speaking animals and all.

[Kyle Aaron]

Yep, 1 game out of maybe 1,000 fantasy rpgs out there. And it's in German, so maybe 0.5 out of 500 or so in English - Banestorm sort of counts as one, but there's this whole silly thing of a Ministry of Serendipity, bunch of wizards who go round finding humans who've zapped in from Earth and wiping their memories in case they know how to make gunpowder. I think it's a union thing, demarcation, "it says in our collective agreement that only prestidigitators, magi, sorcerors, clumsy alchemists and people with pointy hats can blow shit up." So really it's zero, since a person from our world who has their memory wiped in Yrth becomes just a person from Yrth with no background. Split the difference, call it half.

[Aos]

I've always liked mixing black powder arms and the occasional revolver or ray gun into my fantasy worlds.  I mean how much can a couple of pistols fuck up a setting that has something like dragons in it?

[Haffrung]

The nice thing about the using modern protagonist in a strange land approach is it really facilitates exploration of a new world. My group doesn't enjoy dealing with existing relations - we like a clean slate to start play. And I find it very difficult to come up with plausible reasons why the PCs don't know anything about the lands and peoples they're exploring - especially if you've got educated PCs, or 500 year old elves or whatever.

[GrimJesta]

I've always liked mixing black powder arms and the occasional revolver or ray gun into my fantasy worlds.  I mean how much can a couple of pistols fuck up a setting that has something like dragons in it?

Guardians of the Flame or whatever that book series was called, did stuff like this. Bunch of earth kids zapped to a fantasy world. One was an engineering student and he remembered how to make gunpowder. It was a nice advantage until one day they got attacked by slavers... who also now had gunpowder weapons. I don't remember if the series was good or not since I read it when I was a wee lad, but I always liked how the author didn't nix their Earth knowledge. Shit, they even taught people how to make denim.

-=Grim=-

[Drew]

I've seen enough players acting like 20th & 21st century bozos in fantasy games to render the idea meaningless.

[J Arcane]

I've seen enough players acting like 20th & 21st century bozos in fantasy games to render the idea meaningless.

Personally it always felt like a cop out to me.  Like the guy who just makes "a fighter" and only bothers to put a name on his sheet midway through the third session when the GM realizes he didn't even have one.