The peripheral community that is a f*cking pox on our hobby

[Kellri]

I hear you Eliot...I wrote two 1st edition Gamma World netbooks at the time of GWd20's release pretty much in the hopes of doing what little I could to slap back. I didn't get involved in the flamewar at the time because I was just too busy writing. I' m satisfied with the warmhearted emails from gamers using the netbooks- something I really doubt Baugh is getting from his GW stuff.

I tried to be conciliatory in that thread but the guy just can't let it go...must be too much mold in that Seattle basement.

[Trevelyan]

Actually, if memory serves, there's only one nWoD supplement which refers to anything other than the main book itself and the respective "splat" core: Fall of the Camarilla, I think?

From what I've been told by people in my group who have both books, the Ordo Dracul book refers to information in passing that is detailed in the Rites of the Dragon book. I don't think that it directly refers to RotD, but the suggestion is that anyone who wants to understand everythnig in Ordo Dracul needs to invest in a separate bit of fiction.

[The Yann Waters]

From what I've been told by people in my group who have both books, the Ordo Dracul book refers to information in passing that is detailed in the Rites of the Dragon book.

Only in the sense that it consists of Dracula's autobiographies which the Ordo Dracul obviously has a vested interest in. Rites of the Dragon is as much pure gaming fiction as the novel A Hunger Like Fire (which was also written by Greg Stolze): it expands on the material that was already in mentioned in the Vampire splat core, but isn't required reading in any way. Besides, it's not as though there are any particularly dependable historical accounts about vampires in the setting. In the oWoD, the existence of Caine and the Antediluvians was more or less an established fact, whereas in the nWoD no one really knows where the bloodsuckers came from, although there are all sorts of conflicting beliefs and theories about that. Pick and choose as you wish: again, there's no metaplot, only optional background information.

[GrimJesta]

From what I've been told by people in my group who have both books, the Ordo Dracul book refers to information in passing that is detailed in the Rites of the Dragon book. I don't think that it directly refers to RotD, but the suggestion is that anyone who wants to understand everythnig in Ordo Dracul needs to invest in a separate bit of fiction.

I got the Ordo Dracul book. I don't have the Rites of the Dragon little book thingy thing. Not once, in reading the Ordo Dracul book, did I feel like I needed Rites of the Dragon to understand something. They talk about Rites, but when they do they usually explain what they're talking about. So you don't need Rites to understand anything in Ordo Dracul.

Did that make sense? I only slept a couple of hours last night and I'm doped up on Opiates to boot, so I'm friggin' looped right now. I can't tell if any of my posts are making sense.

-=Grim=-

[jhkim]

There are tons of fiction set in gaming universes.  TSR and WotC have had multiple lines of D&D-related novels ever since Dragonlance in the eighties. I don't think a pure fiction work (i.e. no gaming content) is at all distinctive these days.

[Pseudoephedrine]

There are tons of fiction set in gaming universes.  TSR and WotC have had multiple lines of D&D-related novels ever since Dragonlance in the eighties. I don't think a pure fiction work (i.e. no gaming content) is at all distinctive these days.

I think the novels have had a restrictive, stultifying effect on Dragonlance as a campaign setting. The setting as it existed in the 3.x DLCS was nearly unplayable. There were few hooks for PCs, and all sorts of badly written PrCs with ganked class abilities that PCs were expected to take or else suffer in-game consequences. The Wizard of High Sorcery PrC, for example, is fiddly, overly-restrictive, and has several abilities or features that cannot actually be used based on the setting as-written. The longest chapter in the book was the history chapter, which badly explains the history of the setting and assumes a great deal of pre-existing knowledge on the part of the reader (who Raistilin Majere is, for example).

Dark Sun is another example of the same process with an inferior second edition based on the novels' changes to the world.

[Kyle Aaron]

There are tons of fiction set in gaming universes.  TSR and WotC have had multiple lines of D&D-related novels ever since Dragonlance in the eighties.

I know! I have a friend who reads MechWarrior books. It's a shame, he's such a decent fellow otherwise.

[Kellri]

There are tons of fiction set in gaming universes. TSR and WotC have had multiple lines of D&D-related novels ever since Dragonlance in the eighties.

But still no Great RPG Novel.... or even a very good one.

[Aos]

I've never even found one that I could get past the first chapter or two of.

[Kellri]

I used to read Shadowrun novels on long flights, but have never played or really read much of the rpg. Some (Nigel Findley) were better than others...but nowhere near as good as say, Butcher's The Dresden Files or Windling's Borderlands. My attitude toward Dragonlance, OTOH, is kind of like the  Dude's attitude toward the Eagles in the Big Lebowski: 'I've had a rough night and I hate the fucking 'Lance, man!'

[Thanatos02]

The problem with fiction in gaming is that almost every game I've ever played that I liked took a few liberties with the setting. Maybe they didn't change 'canon', or even touch on it, but every game fleshes out some aspect of the setting, and PC actions have a positive (ie - they add to the history of the setting) effect. In many cases, the GM makes a call on some aspect of the setting that wasn't defined before (left open by writers to allow GMs to fill it in).

Fiction is going to do kind of the same thing, but often times, is made 'canonical'. That means, setting information is being added, but at the same time, GM and player options are trimmed back. The worst thing about it is that it adds useless setting information that never saw a proper gaming book, so in order to get all the canon, the players and GM need to buy non-gaming books.

Rational people discard this, but in OWoD, a lot of setting information near the end took place in texts that had nothing to do with gaming. They were novels. And novel protagonists took the place of PC's.

It's a small issue, because the GM can disregard it. But it's a real one when a player shows up to the game with their head full of what the game 'should' be like, because he read all the Forgotten Relms novels, or read every Hunter: the Reckoning and Demon: the Fallen novel that was ever published.

I've read a few pieces of gaming fiction I enjoyed. I wouldn't call them amazing pieces of literature, and using them as canon would be folly. I prefer to think of them as aspects of a setting that could be, and primarily use them as light reading.

[David R]

I normally don't read game-related novels - I remember Dave Langford's (White Dwarf) anticipation of reviewing Dragonlance "waiting for my ten foot pole in which I intend not to touch these novels" - but I liked some of the WFRP & 40K books, like Brian Criag's Orfeo Trilogy and Ian Watson's Inquisitor books.

Regards,
David R

[Fritzs]

I once read Feist's novels without knowing they were somehow based upon Dungeons and Dragons... It wasn't bad, and I even picked some interesting ideas from that books...

[Cole]

I normally don't read game-related novels - I remember Dave Langford's (White Dwarf) anticipation of reviewing Dragonlance "waiting for my ten foot pole in which I intend not to touch these novels" - but I liked some of the WFRP & 40K books, like Brian Criag's Orfeo Trilogy and Ian Watson's Inquisitor books.

Regards,
David R

Which issue?

[David R]

Which issue?

Sorry can't remember the issue.

Here's a link to some of Langford's old reviews he did for various publications. It could be in here...

http://ansible.co.uk/writing/revindex.html

Regards,
David R