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The peripheral community that is a f*cking pox on our hobby

Started by Quire, August 05, 2008, 01:54:19 PM

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Quire

August 05, 2008, 01:54:19 PM
I'm starting this thread so as not to derail the one in which Balbinus made (pretty much) the above statement.

I've seen Balbinus (and others) say the same thing before both here and on RPG.net, and seem to recall Bruce Baugh backing it up with anecdotes from within the industry. It really intrigues me. I think I get the underlying argument: games company producing books that appeal to collectors aren't necessarily producing books that work for gamers. And so long as the collectors are buying those books there's no incentive to correct or evolve the game itself because collectors don't care about it. Collectors won't give you feedback about how your initiative system reads beautifully but sucks spotty fat ass in play, or how ZOMG POWERZ X make playing anything without them a flat-out waste of time, for example.

So (in particular I'm asking this of Balbinus, but I'm expecting others to have an opinion too), can you expand or correct my take on the argument, and tell me how much of an impact it really has? Are there immediate concerns, or are you talking more about a gradual erosion of game quality? Can you cite games where you have seen the negative effects you're worried about actually take place?

I note in the meanwhile that the discussion continues in Settembrini's Luke Crane thread, but would still like to talk about the core issues here.

Aos

#1
August 05, 2008, 02:03:14 PM
Test: fucking


okay I just wanted to see if there was a filter.
You are posting in a troll thread.

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Settembrini

#2
August 05, 2008, 02:03:31 PM
Collecting is good. Only collectors can become great DMs.

I´ve never encountered anyone who DMed with "Just one book" who was worth anything.

Player-Collectors keep systems afloat: Battletech for example

That said, the most vile species is not the collector itself, but the obnoxious "single book" collector. I hate them, they never start or maintain campaign with any single one of their "handy single volume"-wonderbooks.

If I can choose between a DM that owns EVERYTHING from ONE game line and nothing else, or a DM that has 300 different HSV-wonderbooks and written 400 reviews on RPG.Net, I´ll go to the first guy.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Quire

#3
August 05, 2008, 02:06:56 PM
Quote from: Aos;232082okay I just wanted to see if there was a filter.

Nah, that was just me auto-asterisking. Fucking fucking fucking.

I can even not do it if I try.

Blackleaf

#4
August 05, 2008, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: Settembrini;232083Collecting is good. Only collectors can become great DMs.

Ouch.  

Reading this hurts my brain.

gleichman

#5
August 05, 2008, 02:09:17 PM
Quote from: Stuart;232086Ouch.  

Reading this hurts my brain.

Reading Sett doesn't make my brain hurt.

Reading Sett trying to understand/repeat what I've written makes my brain hurt.
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Mike S.

#6
August 05, 2008, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: Stuart;232086Ouch.  

Reading this hurts my brain.

Settembrini is full of shit again. News at 11.

Ignoring the troll is the best thing you can do

gleichman

#7
August 05, 2008, 02:11:06 PM
Quote from: Quire;232076So (in particular I'm asking this of Balbinus, but I'm expecting others to have an opinion too), can you expand or correct my take on the argument, and tell me how much of an impact it really has?

IMO, not much for the simple reason that good rules are not a reason significant number of people buy games.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Mike S.

#8
August 05, 2008, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: gleichman;232088Reading Sett doesn't make my brain hurt.

Reading Sett trying to understand/repeat what I've written makes my brain hurt.

Settembrini talks out of his ass.  I don't even bother reading what he writes.  if there is a post by him I just move on.

Seanchai

#9
August 05, 2008, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Mike S.;232092Settembrini talks out of his ass.  I don't even bother reading what he writes.

You can read what he writes? For me, it's like spilling a bag of marbles on a tile floor and trying to watch where they all go simulataneously...

Seanchai
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Settembrini

#10
August 05, 2008, 02:46:26 PM
Quote from: Stuart;232086Ouch.  

Reading this hurts my brain.

Why that?

Only collectors make good DMs. That´s my point here. I can´t see anything difficult to understand there.

Again: I´ve never encountered someone who wasn´t a collector of the system he DMs who was worth his salt.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Jackalope

#11
August 05, 2008, 02:50:50 PM
Kibitzers suck, it's true.
"What is often referred to as conspiracy theory is simply the normal continuation of normal politics by normal means." - Carl Oglesby

Blackleaf

#12
August 05, 2008, 02:52:14 PM
Quote from: Settembrini;232115Why that?

Only collectors make good DMs. That´s my point here. I can´t see anything difficult to understand there.

Again: I´ve never encountered someone who wasn´t a collector of the system he DMs who was worth his salt.

What would collecting mean for someone who just played OD&D, B/X D&D, or AD&D (pre Unearthed Arcana)?  What's the minimum requirement for their collection before they could be a good DM?  Was that always true, or is it only true circa 2008?

jgants

#13
August 05, 2008, 02:53:41 PM
Quote from: Settembrini;232115Only collectors make good DMs. That´s my point here. I can´t see anything difficult to understand there.

I agree, the incredibly stupid argument you make is very easy to understand.  :rolleyes:
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Settembrini

#14
August 05, 2008, 02:58:25 PM
Well, an OD&D DM would have had an extensive library of Novels, Wargames, Miniatures & non-fiction books all around "his" subjects.

And as of 2008 I expect that AS WELL as a collection of "his" system he wants to run.

Again, I have only encountered DMs who were deep into "their" thing that were any good.

I can´t stand half assed efforts.

So I see a big difference in collecting "deep" and collecting "broad".

The bane of RPG.Net are the flavour of the month single book purchasers, for example.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity
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