Quote from: Orphan81;853131Pathfinder Online was a perfect example of Hubris.

How many tabletop games have been made into Videogames outside of Dungeons and Dragons? Oh, that's right, about zero, except for Whitewolf who got two Vampire Games, an aborted Werewolf game and an aborted MMO.

Dude there's a huge raft of WH40k and WHFB/FRP videogames.

Quote from: Snowman0147;853150You forgot some hunter games that play like Diablo.  Pretty decent games I might add.

Oh shit yeah, and I loved those games too..

So yes, the number 1 and number 2 publishers of RPG's are the only ones who have gotten videogames.

QuoteCorrect me if I'm remembering this wrong...

I remember in the early days of this project listening to a podcast (I think it was Fear the Boot) where Dancey was a guest and claimed that his team was going to revolutionize the MMORPG genre and finally bridge the gap between tabletop RPGs' freedom and computer convenience that would in time pave the way for tabletop GM obsolescence.

This was also around the time he was making lots of smug statements about tabletop being doooooooomed.

I'll always be grateful to him for the SRD, but talk about hubris.

Oh god yes... Back in 2012 when folks like Garatha Skara were going on and on about "Transmedia" being the future, and any company that didn't diversify their tabletop games into novels, comics, tv, movies, and videogames was doomed, DOOOMED...

QuoteDude there's a huge raft of WH40k and WHFB/FRP videogames.

You got me there, but it's because I primarily think of Warhammer as a wargame first and foremost and the RPG just being one of the spin offs like their books, and videogames...

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;853070MMOs are Collectible Card Games, only riskier and trickier. They have broken many men and stripped many deep coffers bare.

Better analogy.

Quote from: Omega;853155Better analogy.

How so? It's possible to do a CCG on the cheap. An MMO is always gonna take a pretty penny to develop.

Quote from: Orphan81;853131Pathfinder Online was a perfect example of Hubris.

How many tabletop games have been made into Videogames outside of Dungeons and Dragons? Oh, that's right, about zero, except for Whitewolf who got two Vampire Games, an aborted Werewolf game and an aborted MMO.

Shadowrun: four console games, SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, and XBox. At least one PC game. and a MUD.

Tunnels & Trolls: one or two PC games and one rather popular PC game made from the rules called Wasteland, which is the inspiration for Fallout.

Traveller: At least one PC game.

Space 1889: PC game.

Skyrealms of Jorune: PC game.

Champions: A failed PC game and then finally an MMO.

And a few others, not counting board games like Car Wars, Battletech, TOG, etc.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;853159How so? It's possible to do a CCG on the cheap. An MMO is always gonna take a pretty penny to develop.

There are countless dead companies now thanks to trying to get in on the CCG craze. A couple of major RPG companies and hundreds of little startups. CCGs are appallingly costly to make and can exceed the cost of minis intensive games. Retailers can and will flat out refuse to host them and are pressuring more and more to go to standalone or non-random expansion based formats.

Whenever a new designer asks on the forums how to make and publish a CCG, the usual answer is. Dont.

Back on topic. So how is this project supposed to get completed if they laid off the programmers?

MMOs are hard.

Quote from: Omega;853164Shadowrun: four console games, SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, and XBox. At least one PC game. and a MUD.

Tunnels & Trolls: one or two PC games and one rather popular PC game made from the rules called Wasteland, which is the inspiration for Fallout.

Traveller: At least one PC game.

Space 1889: PC game.

Skyrealms of Jorune: PC game.

Champions: A failed PC game and then finally an MMO.

And a few others, not counting board games like Car Wars, Battletech, TOG, etc.

My brain just stopped working apparently, considering I fucking OWN every Shadowrun videogame...Genesis, Supernintendo, and Returns (But not the shitty microsoft version)

Fuck me, I'm just flat out wrong... but in my defense I'm suffering from some extreme insomina at the moment.

Quote from: Omega;853167There are countless dead companies now thanks to trying to get in on the CCG craze. A couple of major RPG companies and hundreds of little startups. CCGs are appallingly costly to make and can exceed the cost of minis intensive games. Retailers can and will flat out refuse to host them and are pressuring more and more to go to standalone or non-random expansion based formats.

There are also countless dead RPG companies that happened during the D20 craze.  The analogy doesn't hold up.

Quote from: Omega;853167Whenever a new designer asks on the forums how to make and publish a CCG, the usual answer is. Dont.

And someone comes along and makes one that's actually pretty successful anyway, because they didn't listen to conventional wisdom.

Look up the electronic CCG called Hearthstone, which is put out by Blizzard.  Apple and Google have a deluge of pretty good ones as well which seem to be doing OK.

Quote from: Omega;853167Back on topic. So how is this project supposed to get completed if they laid off the programmers?

We haven't heard anything about this game for at least 4 years, what makes you think there was anything done in the first place?

Quote from: Orphan81;853172My brain just stopped working apparently, considering I fucking OWN every Shadowrun videogame...Genesis, Supernintendo, and Returns (But not the shitty microsoft version)

Fuck me, I'm just flat out wrong... but in my defense I'm suffering from some extreme insomina at the moment.

You have the Japan only Mega CD too? Ive only seen that in play as a demo at a convention way back.

Quote from: The Butcher;853123Mostly true on the MMO front — the fad's definitely dialed back and even WoW is bleeding subscribers, but I feel GW2, ESO and Neverwinter are doing fine, even if not "WoW in 2008" fine — but yeah, a more trad CRPG would probably have been a safer bet.

I think they are, but it's worth each of them is building on a tried and true videogame franchise; Guild Wars 2 is the sequel to an existing MMO and therefore could expect a certain portion of the market to give it attention, Neverwinter was building off the reputation of Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, neither of which were MMOs but which did have strong online communities and did have a strong multiplayer aspect and so could be expected to be have a certain overlap with the MMO audience, and Elder Scrolls Online is the MMO adaptation of one of the most popular computer RPG franchises out there at the moment.

Compare to Pathfinder, which prior to this had no exposure in the world of video games whatsoever. Like you say, making a trad CRPG should really have been their first port of call - that could allow them to build an audience beyond the tabletop RPG crowd and also get some experience under their belt before moving on to the MMO. Even Blizzard had to cut their teeth on the conventional Warcraft games before doing World of Warcraft, after all.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;853177There are also countless dead RPG companies that happened during the D20 craze.  The analogy doesn't hold up.

And someone comes along and makes one that's actually pretty successful anyway, because they didn't listen to conventional wisdom.

Look up the electronic CCG called Hearthstone, which is put out by Blizzard.  Apple and Google have a deluge of pretty good ones as well which seem to be doing OK.

We haven't heard anything about this game for at least 4 years, what makes you think there was anything done in the first place?

1: Dead RPGs dont tend to bankrupt the designer. CCGs and minis games have. Its the startup cost that is the factor.

2: In the last 10 years that has been just short of zero. Chaotic comes to mind as the most recent to still be around. Most others last months at best, assuming they even get to the retail stage.

3: Even the ECGs are faltering. One problem is that they have a faster burnout stage where players realize that they are paying for nothing. And the ephemeral nature is causing a gradual distrust. A couple of mif-level ECGs just folded and players are starting to clue in.

4: From the article linked it sounded like they had been progressing it, else they would not be asking for more funding?

Wasn't there a RIFTS videogame that bombed? Or did that ever even come out?

I think the RIFTS game was for a cell phone or something? I remember it was called "the taco," can't recall what it was called for real.

The ShadowRun games are pretty solid, fwiw, you should check them out if you're into SR.

Funny thing, I remember catching crap for being mystified that people would put money into the PF MMO--it wasn't even going to use the PF rules, which to me makes it just another MMO with a license.

The real issue with MMOs is they cost many millions to make, many millions on top of that to be any good, and their all-consuming nature means that if you play one MMO, you really don't have time for another That was fine back when there were like 3 decent MMOs around (EQ and Asheron's Call), but once the "one game to rule them all" came around (no  need to name), there's just no way anyone else can fit into the market. You also need a critical mass to be sustaining...and that's a problem, too, since most everyone is playing the "one game."

And this is the real comparison to CCGs. Nobody can really play 2 CCGs seriously, they're bloody expensive...and you kinda need someone to play with, just about as problematic as for a MMO.  CCG companies go bankrupt often, too, but it's more a matter of "there's no way we're putting another 10k into this," while with MMOs, you gotta spend 2 million before you can even consider if bankruptcy is the right option.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;853206Wasn't there a RIFTS videogame that bombed? Or did that ever even come out?

It came out on the nGage. It bombed _for that platform_.

I followed the Goblinworks Twitch channel and watched their public play streams. Game looked like EQ, and that won't fly now; hell, WOW's graphic quality gets shit on nowadays, so go figure what a new MMO has to bring to the table. None of the promised features were panning out, defaulting instead to a mush of a themepark MMO- and thus not justifying its existence where WOW is still king by a country mile.