Quote from: Spinachcat;1140739Nobody is telling you what to buy or play.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1140742Nobody here is telling you to do anything.

Quote from: 1989;1139491Nobody should be buying anything from WotC anymore, and nobody should be playing 5e anymore, either.

Not like it will make a difference, but it's the principle.

Like SpinachCat has preached many times, here: people need to get a backbone and stop supporting it. Spend your dollars elsewhere, with publishers who are not bowing down to politics.

LOL Spinachcat was even his inspiration for that message and he credits him in the post!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1140739And nobody here is cancelling the woke fucks. This isn't even about boycotts. It's about shifting personal economics and attention.

Oh did you miss the list being composed of sufficiently most to least woke companies being used to essentially blacklist those too woke for people to be buying? Funny enough, 1989 started that list too. But others gleefully jumped in.

This is how this shit starts. Always with good intentions. It's already becoming difficult around here to question the predominant orthodoxy, and half the responses to those who question it have become personal attacks. Some who questioned the orthodoxy opted to leave here, making this place more of an echo chamber in the process. I can't blame them, as I am feeling it too as my every post is given a spin of the least charitable version with no benefit of the doubt and frequent attacks about my character and intelligence (and while that is one theme of the board, it's never been this level before). Do you really not see where that path is headed?

Quote from: Mistwell;1140815LOL Spinachcat was even his inspiration for that message and he credits him in the post!



Oh did you miss the list being composed of sufficiently most to least woke companies being used to essentially blacklist those too woke for people to be buying? Funny enough, 1989 started that list too. But others gleefully jumped in.

This is how this shit starts. Always with good intentions. It's already becoming difficult around here to question the predominant orthodoxy, and half the responses to those who question it have become personal attacks. Some who questioned the orthodoxy opted to leave here, making this place more of an echo chamber in the process. I can't blame them, as I am feeling it too as my every post is given a spin of the least charitable version with no benefit of the doubt and frequent attacks about my character and intelligence (and while that is one theme of the board, it's never been this level before). Do you really not see where that path is headed?

Pray tell, how is that "Black list" gonna impact those publishers?

By letting people know that said publisher is woke, people are going to do what? Burn their building? Dox them and go to their house in a mob? Get them fired? Publish articles in all the lamestream media about how their product is a pipeline to the alt-right? Ban their shit from DTRPG, conventions and hound the payment processors so they can't make a living selling their shit?

Nope, that's shit your fellow travelers do, we're just gonna make an informed decision on whether we buy or not their shit. And plenty here have said they will if the product is "good", so not even a real boycott.

What it is is a BUYCOTT, as in go buy from non-woke publishers (or at least publishers that don't inject their politics into their products/forums.

And this is your real issue, you know damn well that it will work, that people will buy products with ZERO IRL politics over the opposite, and YOU don't want us to make it easy for anyone to make such informed decision.

Quote from: S'mon;1140764Very well said. This is by and large my position also.
I am less charitable and think Mistwell's position comes across as wrongheaded at best, cynical Alinskyite tactics ("Always hold them to their own standards") at worst.

That's exactly what he is doing. You can bet your RPG collection that he doesn't dare try his Both-sides-ism on Big Purple. They'd Popper Paradox him and ban him in 5 seconds.

Quote from: Aglondir;1140830That's exactly what he is doing. You can bet your RPG collection that he doesn't dare try his Both-sides-ism on Big Purple. They'd Popper Paradox him and ban him in 5 seconds.

He couldn't even if he wanted too... as wacky as we think Mistwell is, he's already been permabanned at TBP for not being woke enough for them. Think on that a moment... Mistwell is not as woke as the people pushing this stuff into RPGs.

Quote from: Mistwell;1140815LOL Spinachcat was even his inspiration for that message and he credits him in the post!



Oh did you miss the list being composed of sufficiently most to least woke companies being used to essentially blacklist those too woke for people to be buying? Funny enough, 1989 started that list too. But others gleefully jumped in.

This is how this shit starts. Always with good intentions. It's already becoming difficult around here to question the predominant orthodoxy, and half the responses to those who question it have become personal attacks. Some who questioned the orthodoxy opted to leave here, making this place more of an echo chamber in the process. I can't blame them, as I am feeling it too as my every post is given a spin of the least charitable version with no benefit of the doubt and frequent attacks about my character and intelligence (and while that is one theme of the board, it's never been this level before). Do you really not see where that path is headed?

It's already been pointed out to you that we're talking about boycotting, not cancelling. WOTC can put out whatever garbage they like, and we can boycott them all we like. You don't have to agree. You don't have to participate. But equating our opinions with cancel culture is laughable.

I don't give your posts any charity because they're stupid and easily refutable, as I just did. As many have done over and over.

Let me know when anyone here calls for a "woke" RPG product to get pulled from DTRPG, and the idea gets serious traction with the rest of the posters. Until something comparable happens, you're comparing oranges to apples and failing miserably at it.

Quote from: Chris24601;1140837He couldn't even if he wanted too... as wacky as we think Mistwell is, he's already been permabanned at TBP for not being woke enough for them. Think on that a moment... Mistwell is not as woke as the people pushing this stuff into RPGs.

Mistwell banned at TBP? Seems I have made an incorrect assumption. My apologies for that, Mistwell. I do applaud your efforts to "question orthodoxy," as that spirit of inquiry should always be welcome in a free society. However, on this particular issue I don't see Wokist cancel culture and the "buycott" as equivalent.

Quote from: Chris24601;1140837He couldn't even if he wanted too... as wacky as we think Mistwell is, he's already been permabanned at TBP for not being woke enough for them. Think on that a moment... Mistwell is not as woke as the people pushing this stuff into RPGs.

Mistwell is a moderate even by EN World standards! I guess on RPGnet he was an Alt-Reich Schitlard!

Quote from: S'mon;1140846Mistwell is a moderate even by EN World standards! I guess on RPGnet he was an Alt-Reich Schitlard!

Ha, EN World standards!  Good one.

Considering Mistwell, it's hard to be a dissenting voice anywhere, even on a free speech RPG forum. So, though I disagree with you on many points (or perhaps because I disagree with you), Mistwell, I appreciate having you around.

It's true the level of acrimonious prose has recently risen here, but... people are tense, because the world around them (around us) seems to hurl itself into craziness : Covid-19, unemployment, riots, pseudo-religious fanatics (i.e a good many SJWs)... Things are not looking good.

About buycott - yeah, it seems a good idea to me. Most businesses will only change their woke virtue signaling if it costs them money. It's just that it's easier for them to bow to the moral panic than fight it, and it seems to cost them less sales... though I think  that, in the RPG business, it's an erroneous perception,  and that it will save their asses in the very short term, but it will ruin them in the long run.

Greetings!

Hmmm. How is it that people expressing the view of "Hey! This company are woke, SJW morons. Company A is not SJW, and you should support them,"--oppressing anyone here?

That is just discussing how politics influences companies and the marketplace.

No one is being oppressed or persecuted.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The best thing about boycotting buying RPG products at the moment is not having to pay the eye watering shipping charges.

No wonder China is eating your lunch.

Quote from: SHARK;1141032Greetings!

Hmmm. How is it that people expressing the view of "Hey! This company are woke, SJW morons. Company A is not SJW, and you should support them,"--oppressing anyone here?

That is just discussing how politics influences companies and the marketplace.

No one is being oppressed or persecuted.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I agree, no one here is oppressing anyone - although there's definitely backlash for dissenting views from the default right-libertarian machismo.

Where I agree with Mistwell is that I think there are people on either side who are equally entrenched:

"Safe Spacers": Everything that is deemed offensive by anyone should be changed or cancelled, and anyone who disagrees is perpetuating racism, etc.
"From My Cold, Dead Hands": Nothing should be changed whatsoever, and any kind of disclaimers are offensive, therefore I'm boycotting WotC.

I personally don't think WotC needs to change the game as it is, and find the idea of taking down or editing old products to be absurd. But I also recognize that things change, a measly disclaimer and a few re-wordings aren't going to stop me from buying WotC products. If they go overboard, maybe.

Quote from: Mistwell;1140815Oh did you miss the list being composed of sufficiently most to least woke companies being used to essentially blacklist those too woke for people to be buying?

Oh fuck you, dude.

How the fuck is anyone here trying to "blacklist" a company or a developer/creative?

Nobody here is trying to "cancel" anyone.

The cancel culture brigade actively works to get people fired from their jobs, and actively works to put companies/individuals out of business.

That's a night and fucking day difference from people here advocating not buying a product, advocating not supporting a company/individual, or advocating spending your money with an alternative company/individual.

You're such a disingenuous piece of shit.

Are you' so mentally damaged, that you can't tell the difference between "don't support them" and "burn them to the ground and end their participation in this hobby" ?!

I do not see many people ever attack mistwell for his views.  He gets attacked or pushback for his tone.  He seems fine with starting a good deal of his disagreements with disparaging remarks and insult.  He seems a bit sensitive as to getting it tossed back at him.  I can not I have seen him do this every time, and I can not say he has not been unduly insulted.  I can say he seems to always start out every time in combat mode of discussion instead of putting forth his position.   My thoughts are he is likely a natural contrarian who gets a dopamine hit from struggle/conflict and posts for sport, not to troll, but enjoys a tussle.  I could be wrong.

   That said, if a company tells me they do not want me as part of their customer base, I have a hard time accepting the charge that I am blacklisting anyone.  Seems they told me they do not serve my kind there.

Quote from: kythri;1141087Oh fuck you, dude.

How the fuck is anyone here trying to "blacklist" a company or a developer/creative?

Nobody here is trying to "cancel" anyone.

The cancel culture brigade actively works to get people fired from their jobs, and actively works to put companies/individuals out of business.

That's a night and fucking day difference from people here advocating not buying a product, advocating not supporting a company/individual, or advocating spending your money with an alternative company/individual.

You're such a disingenuous piece of shit.

Are you' so mentally damaged, that you can't tell the difference between "don't support them" and "burn them to the ground and end their participation in this hobby" ?!

This fucking moron tried cancelling me in the past... Didn't go so well did it? :rolleyes:
Source:https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?40735-New-Horizon-Development-Coming-Q1-2020/page2

Quote from: kythri;1141087Read his other two threads in this review forum, read his responses to reviews on DTRPG, and look for "Knights & Legends" threads on RPGgeek. This guy is a whackadoo. He's evasive, hyper-defensive, hyper-paranoid, and he grossly exaggerates any positive claim he makes. Hell, you've seen his responses in this thread already, yeah?

Also, he apparently can't answer most people, unless he validates your "credentials" or some such nonsense.