Quote from: Thalaba;503898The 'marsh dwellers' are kind of a moist zombie, but otherwise no. I was disappointed in this, too. Similarly, I feel they missed the opportunity to explore the setting further. They didn't include any cold drakes, lesser fire drakes, wereworms, eagles, ravens, crows, boars, kine, balrogs, or watchers in the water. Presumably barrow-wights, mewlips, ents, huorns, etc. will be covered in other books.

The Marsh Dwellers are Mewlips. They couldn't be directly referred to due to licensing reasons, but read the poem and it pretty much describes the Marsh Bell adventure

Barrow Wights and Watcher in the Walker will be set two and Ents and Huorns will be set three if anywhere as you say.

Not sure why you need combat stats for crows and ravens

As for Balrogs, well that's a debate in and of itself

Quote from: DominikSchwager;503692So, by that definition D&D is an incomplete game, because it comes without a setting...
Actually, by that logic most RPGs are incomplete as they rarely come with more than a barebones setting.
Personally I take a smaller, but more developed setting over a bigger one.

D&D has a strongly implicit setting, but that's not the point.

TOR has a setting, just a quarter of it. Given that Middle Earth is the draw for the game, it's bizarre not to include more of it and the character options/spells/etc for other regions rather than solely focus on that area at the exclusion of everything else until next year. I think that's insane.

Quote from: Peregrin;503769I'm not familiar with anything outside of The Hobbit or LotR (Silmarillion and Hurin on the backburner), but what else would there be?

Giant Fucking Robot Dinosaurs.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;503965D&D has a strongly implicit setting, but that's not the point.

Yes, that is the point. D&D comes without a setting. Most games only come with a bare minimum of a setting. Yet you claim this game is incomplete. You are not making ANY sense.
If this game is incomplete, then all other RPGs are incomplete, too.
You don't have to like that the designers chose to concentrate on a smaller area and describe that in more detail rather than give you a broad (and often meaningless) overview over the whole world. You really don't. But claiming that this makes the game incomplete is just ridiculous.

Quote from: DominikSchwager;503996Yes, that is the point. D&D comes without a setting. Most games only come with a bare minimum of a setting. Yet you claim this game is incomplete. You are not making ANY sense.
If this game is incomplete, then all other RPGs are incomplete, too.
You don't have to like that the designers chose to concentrate on a smaller area and describe that in more detail rather than give you a broad (and often meaningless) overview over the whole world. You really don't. But claiming that this makes the game incomplete is just ridiculous.

You aren't making sense if you are implying that TOR is complete. It's a game based in MIddle Earth, but that only gives you a quarter thereof. Whether or not that means all other games are incomplete is immaterial.
TOR doesn't give an overview of ME. It is entirely defined by and limited to the portion of the setting it has chosen for itself. You can't create a Gondorian Knight, a Rohan Horseman, a Dunlending, a Grey Havens elf, etc. The only concession, i think, is a hobbit.

Quote from: DominikSchwager;503996But claiming that this makes the game incomplete is just ridiculous.

You aren't going to win this as you are using two different definitions of what is complete.

FWIW TORs approach to its setting is what sold me on it and it certainly seems to be working out well for C7 on the whole (as with any decision, it is not for everyone). I have had a nice complete gaming experience with TOR so far and I am looking forward to expanding out with the later sets.

Quote from: Skywalker;504000You aren't going to win this as you are using two different definitions of what is complete.

Or in other words, I already won, Ghost Whistler just doesn't get it.

Quote from: Skywalker;503907Not sure why you need combat stats for crows and ravens

Ah, well, there you go. Had there been some treatment of them in the book, you'd be brimming with ideas for riddling ravens and murders of crows. A writeup need not only be stats, and stats need not only be for combat, you know.

Since you seem to be in the know, do you know to what extent Eriador will be covered? Will it extend to the ruins of Fornost, the dwarf settlements in the west, and perhaps even over the blue mountains? Will the Gondor book include the southern lands? What I really want from a Middle Earth RPG is to go beyond the books and delve into places only hinted at by the author - but in such a way that is consistent with the author's vision.

I think we must assume that, after the third set is released, Middle Earth, as far as is detailed in the Lotr and the hobbit will be covered. I don't know how much Fornost features in those two beyond perhaps footnotes and appendices. It featured a fair amount in the MMO, as did Angmar. Some of the MMO ideas are worth stealing.

I would be more excited about this game if it covered all of Middle Earth instead of the least interesting part.

This game is most definitely not meant to be a "Middle-Earth RPG" in the traditional sense of a setting for world immersion.  First and foremost is it a narrative-influenced rpg, and as is normal for those, it has a very specific focus.

The One Ring has been found, events are now in motion that will eventually lead to the War of the Ring.  Your characters are going to be creating their own story of what happened in Mirkwood for a set number of years following the Battle of the Five Armies.

To draw an analogy with the King Arthur Legend, it's not Dark Age Britain: The RPG, it's the first fifth or so of the Pendragon: Grand Campaign.

You can bitch about whether it should be this type of game or not, but saying it fails because it doesn't do what it never wanted to do from the beginning is silly.

All that being said, it's a little too narrative in it's presentation from start to finish, for example, when do Middle-Earth heroes in the novels encounter normal wolves, bears, and boars as opponents?  They don't therefore you don't need them.

As for delivering a world-immersion RPG, it's EpicFail.  As far as delivering an experience that feels like you're playing a ME novel, it kicks the holy hell out of anything that has come before.

It is the only game I've seen that has gotten ME magic right (at least so far).

Quote from: Thalaba;504010Ah, well, there you go. Had there been some treatment of them in the book, you'd be brimming with ideas for riddling ravens and murders of crows. A writeup need not only be stats, and stats need not only be for combat, you know.

We have had plenty of animal encounters but they have been handled by Skills, not tactical combat. I could see such an encounter elevated as such in a few situations, but it would not be common and it would be easy to use the Bats or Wolf stat blocks accordingly.

Quote from: Thalaba;504010Since you seem to be in the know, do you know to what extent Eriador will be covered? Will it extend to the ruins of Fornost, the dwarf settlements in the west, and perhaps even over the blue mountains? Will the Gondor book include the southern lands? What I really want from a Middle Earth RPG is to go beyond the books and delve into places only hinted at by the author - but in such a way that is consistent with the author's vision.

No idea sorry. I imagine it will be pretty widely covered. If they go with six Cultures for each book, I can see three of those being devoted to Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits respectively and three for humans.

Given the next set covers the Rangers of the North, I am guessing Fornost will be covered.

I don't think we will see Harad or Far Harad in detail but I expect to see Southrons and Easterlings in the third set as antagonists.

Quote from: danbuter;504101I would be more excited about this game if it covered all of Middle Earth instead of the least interesting part.

Yeah, it's going to be an awesome RPG once the three sets are released. Coming out with a focus on the Hobbit first may not have been to everyone's tastes but at least the RPG for that story will be out for when the movies hit which will be a first for this franchise.

QuoteAs far as delivering an experience that feels like you're playing a ME novel, it kicks the holy hell out of anything that has come before.

It is the only game I've seen that has gotten ME magic right (at least so far).

This.

I had the good fortune of reading the Hobbit for the first time in my life last year. Then, when I put my eyes on the One Ring for the first time.. I was shocked. Its one of the best (if not THE best) depiction of a fictional world in a roleplaying game that Ive ever seen.

If you want Hobbit the Roleplaying game, its the game. If you want D&D dressed in Tolkien though, look elsewhere.

Quote from: silva;504235If you want Hobbit the Roleplaying game, its the game. If you want D&D dressed in Tolkien though, look elsewhere.

And with any luck with the next two sets, the same can be said for Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game too.