A new leaked #WoTC document shows sinister plans for the #OGL "1.1". But who is Hasbro's real target? What are they really trying to prevent? And what should the #OSR do?
#dnd #OneDnD #ttrpg #dnd5e

Good video. I'm glad at least there's since been clarification that they can't actually make people destroy material made a decade ago... they're just going to claim nothing new can be made for anything without the OGL1.1.

So it's an EMP instead of nuclear bomb.

Still, time for a lot of the OGL users to be looking at alternatives... either going without or collaborating on a new System License. The real trick is going to be altering content sufficiently (ex. in the FreeSRD it's "force missile" instead of "magic missile") to be free and clear of They Sue Regularly 2.0.

I'll say this.

The 1.1 OGL leak has done wonders for forum traffic across the board!

I really think that the 1.1 OGL will be opt-in like Tenkar has speculated:



If Tenkar is proven right; Then the current drama will largely blow over for WotC.

WotC will do custom agreements with the big 3pp plyers and only the small fry will get stiffed. Which WotC doesn't care about anyway.

In my opinion; all this is revolving around the future rollout of the OneVTT.

How the One VTT is received in 2024 will be the big tell if WotC will be successful in their plan.

I really hope that it is.

Quote from: Jaeger on January 06, 2023, 03:48:59 PM
I'll say this.

The 1.1 OGL leak has done wonders for forum traffic across the board!

I really think that the 1.1 OGL will be opt-in like Tenkar has speculated:



If Tenkar is proven right; Then the current drama will largely blow over for WotC.

WotC will do custom agreements with the big 3pp plyers and only the small fry will get stiffed. Which WotC doesn't care about anyway.

In my opinion; all this is revolving around the future rollout of the OneVTT.

How the One VTT is received in 2024 will be the big tell if WotC will be successful in their plan.

I really hope that it is.

I hope it is too. However, how many times has betting a corporation doesn't take the greediest short term gain for themselves worked out? Not many in my experience.

I still think "better safe than sorry" is going to be in the best interests of the OGL corner of the hobby... even if that means crowdsourcing reworkings of all the relevant mechanics (so much of PC content falls under all the spells and feats that, from what Pundit stated, the OGL1.1 will say can't be used in any new product; only pre-existing ones).

That the pre-existing books are okay buys some time, but I'd still want out from under the OGL ASAP for sanity's sake if I'm not joining Hasborg's assimilation/co-option push.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2023, 05:40:38 PM
I hope it is too. However, how many times has betting a corporation doesn't take the greediest short term gain for themselves worked out? Not many in my experience.
...

To clarify why I hope WotC's current plan is successful:

Really dumb retard greediest non opt-in will cause them to pivot in a few years, revert back to a version of the previous OGL, and everyone will come running back to WotC D&D.

But an opt-in walled garden version will segregate D&D, and create space for a competitor to rise up over time.

I want them to slow boil themselves, a big shock might actually wake them up in time to do something...

The real question is whether or not the D&D player base can maintain this current level of outrage for an entire year. Maybe it was smart for WotC to leak this document right now, a year before it is officially released. By 2024, how many people will be burned out on the whole affair and no longer care enough to stay away but, instead, just accept the situation for what it is and go along as best they can.

The biggest issue with a huge player walk out is that most casual D&D players probably don't even know what the OGL is nor would they care if WotC takes a percentage cut of the revenue (or whatever issues that game designers have with the new OGL).

And, of course, there is also the narrative that the new OGL guarantees that a product will be free of bigotry. So the only people who still want to use the 1.0 version are people that want to be able to make bigoted content.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2023, 03:35:11 PM
Good video. I'm glad at least there's since been clarification that they can't actually make people destroy material made a decade ago... they're just going to claim nothing new can be made for anything without the OGL1.1.

So it's an EMP instead of nuclear bomb.

Still, time for a lot of the OGL users to be looking at alternatives... either going without or collaborating on a new System License. The real trick is going to be altering content sufficiently (ex. in the FreeSRD it's "force missile" instead of "magic missile") to be free and clear of They Sue Regularly 2.0.

FreeSRD?

Link?

The unfolding drama has been GLORIOUS! 

Everybody HATES this. WotC wanted to invalidate the OGL and it looks like they're gonna get their wish. After this nobody's ever going to trust their OGL again. I hope third party publishers make their own actually open licenses and leave WotC behind.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2023, 07:13:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2023, 03:35:11 PM
Good video. I'm glad at least there's since been clarification that they can't actually make people destroy material made a decade ago... they're just going to claim nothing new can be made for anything without the OGL1.1.

So it's an EMP instead of nuclear bomb.

Still, time for a lot of the OGL users to be looking at alternatives... either going without or collaborating on a new System License. The real trick is going to be altering content sufficiently (ex. in the FreeSRD it's "force missile" instead of "magic missile") to be free and clear of They Sue Regularly 2.0.

FreeSRD?

Link?

No link, just a suggestion for the name of the finished collaboration I proposed and an example of how you'd want to change all but the most self-evident terms because the more surface level differences a judge can easily be shown, the easier it will be to call for and get a summary judgment (and therefore the less likely WotC is to bother).

There's settled case law on systems with the exact same mechanics, but different surface details (two card games... identical rules, but one had player roles of Sheriff, Deputies, Outlaws, the Renegade and an overall Western theme. The other had the Emperor, Ministers, Bandits, the Warlord and an Oriental theme) and it was a summary judgment in favor of the company that copied all the mechanics right down to how each role worked... but a Sheriff isn't an Emperor and a Deputy isn't a Minister... so free and clear.

The more changes, particularly using new lore/fluff the easier it will be to make it not worth the effort to pursue.

The elephant in the room (IMO) is that the market for TTRPG books/pdfs is going to be obscenely glutted in a few years, and the only big corporate TTRPG producers that will continue to exist will be the biggest (WOTC) and whoever controls the reigning champ VTT. Hasbro wants to control both.

Naturally it's worse if they do.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2023, 07:29:56 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 06, 2023, 07:13:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2023, 03:35:11 PM
Good video. I'm glad at least there's since been clarification that they can't actually make people destroy material made a decade ago... they're just going to claim nothing new can be made for anything without the OGL1.1.

So it's an EMP instead of nuclear bomb.

Still, time for a lot of the OGL users to be looking at alternatives... either going without or collaborating on a new System License. The real trick is going to be altering content sufficiently (ex. in the FreeSRD it's "force missile" instead of "magic missile") to be free and clear of They Sue Regularly 2.0.

FreeSRD?

Link?

No link, just a suggestion for the name of the finished collaboration I proposed and an example of how you'd want to change all but the most self-evident terms because the more surface level differences a judge can easily be shown, the easier it will be to call for and get a summary judgment (and therefore the less likely WotC is to bother).

There's settled case law on systems with the exact same mechanics, but different surface details (two card games... identical rules, but one had player roles of Sheriff, Deputies, Outlaws, the Renegade and an overall Western theme. The other had the Emperor, Ministers, Bandits, the Warlord and an Oriental theme) and it was a summary judgment in favor of the company that copied all the mechanics right down to how each role worked... but a Sheriff isn't an Emperor and a Deputy isn't a Minister... so free and clear.

The more changes, particularly using new lore/fluff the easier it will be to make it not worth the effort to pursue.

Yeah, I know of that case, so IF we're gonna go ahead and make it we need a place to talk about it and to collaborate, Guilded has a document creation feature but it doesn't play well with tables, it still would work, either that or Discord.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 06, 2023, 06:56:48 PMThe real question is whether or not the D&D player base can maintain this current level of outrage for an entire year. Maybe it was smart for WotC to leak this document right now, a year before it is officially released. By 2024, how many people will be burned out on the whole affair and no longer care enough to stay away but, instead, just accept the situation for what it is and go along as best they can.

It wouldn't be a good idea to wait.

Hasbro tried to project backward compatibility from the start of the beta for obvious reasons. They don't want a channel full of non-selling product until they deliver new product (and they don't want a lot of 'dead product' left when it does ship). The immediate response is to stop spending any money on Hasbro product purchases and subscriptions and to encourage a boycott of all things Hasbro until Hasbro declares the 1.0a license is perpetual and irrevocable. If Hasbro wants to create a new license that leaves 1.0a untouched, then that's fine. Third parties can continue to use 1.0a.

A palpable loss of revenue then affects stock prices and the leverage strengthens.

So stop buying Hasbro products right now. Do not buy any new 5e products or services. In your interactions with others online, if they talk about buying 5e products, tell them why you've stopped.

The success of 5e was driven by the (generally) low cost of social media. That low cost can also be used to change minds and stock valuation.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 06, 2023, 06:56:48 PM

And, of course, there is also the narrative that the new OGL guarantees that a product will be free of bigotry. So the only people who still want to use the 1.0 version are people that want to be able to make bigoted content.

I suspect this is what it's really about... increasing HASBRO's ESG score. Emphasis on the S.

You and I will never know, of couse, but... looking at the course WOTC has been taking over the last few years, I'd bet that's it.

As a person who regularly interacts with the "mainstream" d&d community, they hate it as much as we do, probably more. Be thankful that we know the alternatives while they don't. It's amazing how connected people are to the game, modding and changing it to the breaking point. Hopefully they'll be able to move on without ruining our hobby.

The ones you interact with probably aren't overly concerned with the stock price of HASBRO... or am I wrong?