Quote from: Psikerlord;927375Has anyone done steampunk OSR yet?

I think Troll Lord's Victorious is close. Add in Amazing Adventures and you can easily pull it off.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;924780One thing I've personally done (and tried to promote) is the idea that hexes in a hex crawl should be leveled just like dungeons. That hexes nearby civilization would be similar to a first level dungeon and the further you go away from civilization, the more dangerous (i.e. higher level) the hexes become. This allows the party to, effectively, choose the danger/reward level of the area they wish to explore by how far deep into the wilderness they are willing to go.. I've gotten lots of push back for this idea.

One things I'd like to see from the OSR is a rethinking of how adventures are structured. Instead of making a giant map with lots of stuff in it, divide the dungeon into a stack of one-page dungeons that can be linked together as the DM sees fit. Allowing the DM to leave out any parts that he doesn't like and insert new dungeon sections seamlessly into a purchased map.

Quote from: Spinachcat;927378Most GMs do this already, but some won't admit it.

I agree with the idea in concept. If really nasty monsters showed up around town, they would eat the town. Since the town is there, that must mean whatever meager militia exists has been enough (so far) to keep the town safe.

But there is a lot of online pushback for gaming purity that doesn't reflect real table gaming.

I'm not sure why there would be pushback.   Unless you mean Level 1 of a dungeon is for Level 1 PCs, Level 2 of the dungeon is for Level 2 PCs, One hex from the town is for Level 1 PCs, two hexes from the town is for Level 2 PCs.  That regimentation is kind of silly.

Saying as you go from town to Farming Plains, to Wildlands, to Wild Forest, to Deepdark Forest, to Undead Hills to Devil's Heart Mountain the level should change and that there shouldn't be a castle of Frost Giants 4 miles from the Shire, that's just logic.  Of course the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs weren't far from the Shire, but everyone knew not to go there.

I don't particularly want players to know "this is a level 5 Hex", but knowing roughly stories of some things that come from there, if possible, is fine.

Quote from: CRKrueger;927384I don't particularly want players to know "this is a level 5 Hex", but knowing roughly stories of some things that come from there, if possible, is fine.

Of course, if you did have everything laid out in hexes, you could plot "Zones of Civilization" that would effectively reduce the encounter level of surrounding hexes, and the farther you got from any civilization, or closer to a Monster Lair, that would have an opposing effect.  As players hexcrawled across the lands, taking out lairs, building and fortifying forts, towns, etc... they could gradually push back the frontier organically through actions.  Kind of like how the Deadlands games do Fear Levels.

I don't know whether the "Chainmail-inspired games" count as the "latest step/Next step that is just beginning", but I sure am happy they are there;).

Quote from: CRKrueger;927385Of course, if you did have everything laid out in hexes, you could plot "Zones of Civilization" that would effectively reduce the encounter level of surrounding hexes, and the farther you got from any civilization, or closer to a Monster Lair, that would have an opposing effect.  As players hexcrawled across the lands, taking out lairs, building and fortifying forts, towns, etc... they could gradually push back the frontier organically through actions.  Kind of like how the Deadlands games do Fear Levels.

Of course, ACKS has mechanics for this.

Well, guidelines for laying out civilized vs borderlands vs wilderness zones, how those affect the frequency of random encounters (slightly buggy rules IMO), and how much work it is for PC domains to *change* these civilized/borderlands/wilderness zones. Including Chaotic PC domains populated by beastmen. Technically, if I recall correctly, what the rules change is the *frequency* of encounters, by orders of magnitude, rather than their level, but you should also have an idea of how much force is available in a civilized domain to interfere with a monster incursion once it's discovered.

Quote from: trechriron;927381I think Troll Lord's Victorious is close. Add in Amazing Adventures and you can easily pull it off.

Hmm excellent must check it out!

What works for me is treating levels like apex predators. There is a not a lot of them because if there were they would starve and soon there will not be a lot of them again. The same with people at the top of power pyramid for good guys and bad.

Conversely a lot of low power creates can challenge high level characters if they have the numbers. Which I also do. Also there are things going on that the PCs care about where it doesn't matter if you can kill everything within the room and beyond it still doesn't fix the problem.

Doing all this things and more means that I really don't have to work about scaling hexes or dungeons. The main challenge is to make sure that the players have ALL the information they SHOULD have in order to a make informed decision. If there a doubt on my part, I err in favor of more information not less.

Even then players make all kinds of mistakes anyway. But because of the above the player in general can see in hindsight exactly where their plans went awry which help with accepting that I made a fair ruling and not pull some arbitrary shit out of my ass.

I have a feeling that at some point the current movement in the OSR — making retroclones and variants of old games — may saturate or creatively burn itself out, and the community may shift its focus to a greater emphasis on playing actual original versions of those games, putting publishing energy into new dungeons, settings, etc. You can see the leading edge of this nibbling at the corners of the OSR market: Goodman Games' reproduction of Metamorphosis Alpha and the Judges Guild archives; Wizards putting out hard bound versions of some of the old pastel modules; whoever owns the rights to Runequest putting out a sort of 'evolved' reprint of the 2nd edition core book. The publishing rights for these sorts of projects might be complicated in some cases, but I think there will come a time when a significant slice of the gaming community simply prefers them enough to overcome that activation energy.

I find that the above prediction about "burning out" unlikely. Just look at how successful the Mutants Crawl Classics KS was, and it's among the games whose mechanics are the furthest from the original games:D!

OTOH, I find it quite likely that we'd see new reprints of old titles, since even I have the OD&D books and some supplements by now;).

Quote from: Larsdangly;927481I have a feeling that at some point the current movement in the OSR — making retroclones and variants of old games — may saturate or creatively burn itself out, and the community may shift its focus to a greater emphasis on playing actual original versions of those games, putting publishing energy into new dungeons, settings, etc.

With most of what the OSR under the Open Game License it is subject to the whims of what the creators are interested in. That the truism here. That and the fact that low barriers to entry as a result of PoD and digital technology means the trend to more diversity not less. So we will see everything, new retro-clone, new setting, new reprints of old material, new adventures. There will be trends as a result of some people doing a thing that sparks similar ideas in others. But eventually they will all be subsumed in the general churn of creativity that goes on.

For example right now I am writing my own retro-clone. I am doing it for several reason none of which has to do whether I think it going to be the popular thing to do. I just think it will be popular enough to make it worth doing.

• Swords & Wizardry has spotty distribution for stores. Since most of my stuff are supplements for Swords & Wizardry this makes it difficult for me to sell to game stores. And yes I talked to them about it, and yes they tried, and yes they mean well but the situation is such that it doesn't work out.
• I created more rules material in the seven years I released the Majestic Wilderlands. Enough to make my own RPG that is distinct from the rest.
• I am well aware that there are two dozens well-done retro-clones out there. So I looked at the history of publishing RPG core rules and elected to publish it in a different way. Hopefully it will be enough to generate sales beyond the crowd that likes Rob Conley's stuff.

#1 is why I am doing this project, #2 gave me the material to make it something more than just a copy somebody's work, and #3 is what will set apart from the rest.

What is #3?, I am going to release it as a half-dozen supplements plus a quick reference product. Standalone each will be a Swords & Wizardry supplement with rules, stuff (spells, items, monster, etc), and some short adventures and locales. Combined they will be the Majestic Fantasy RPG. The adventures and locales will flesh out the Majestic Wilderlands as well as providing ready to run content.

I think this is a good bet in that most people kitbash for their campaign. So I will get the people who like the extra stuff about wizards and magic in the Lost Grimoire of Magic as well as the people who like my RPG. The big difference with stuff like Hargrave's Arduin Grimoire or the OD&D supplement that it is less stream of consciousness and more deliberately planned as part of a whole.

Now all of this would not be anybody list of "What Hot in the OSR". However the low barriers to publishing means the major investment here is my time. Even that is mitigated by the fact that 80% of this is work I already done for myself while playing. Most of my time is spent editing and filling gaps that weren't important in a weekly campaign but are important when you try to explain to somebody what you were doing a weekly campaign.

I am not throwing this out to illustrate that what I am doing is a "thing" but rather to illustrate a process that every OSR author to date has gone through. While details and goals of the steps that Zak S, Raggi,  and the Pundit went through to get their projects out there are very different than mind, fundamentally we are all doing the same thing. Taking advantage of material released under the OGL, thinking of interesting things to do with it, writing it up, and getting it published. There is no master plan, only what each author thinks is important.

Which is why I say to anybody bitching about the OSR, OK go write and show how the rest of us are doing it wrong. I did that to Pundit and the result is Arrows of Indra. His experience with Indra led to Dark Albion. If you think the OSR needs a new direction, then make the product that you think should be the new direction. That the only test that matters in this niche of the hobby.

Shouldn't the next step for the OSR be to sign a big sneaker deal?:-)

Quote from: Omega;923891Have you looked at how BECMI's War Machine rules handled mass combat? The whole thing covers a mere 3 pages in plus 2 pages of optional rules C and a one or two more pages in M.

War Machine was our default way of handling large battles and we were running 1e. I have Battlesystem 1e which is elegant. I've used it for when I wanted more detailed battles that I could play out with miniatures. I've used the thing in combination with the Buck Rogers XXVc RPG ship combat rules and run fleet vs fleet scenarios. Good times. I think the War Machine is good if you want a quick resolution. I like Battlesystem because it can work in combination with Character combat. It really depends on how detailed you want things to be. Battlesystem reminded me of Squad Leader and in fact one of my friends ran a battle in Thyatis and used Seige of Jerusalem to resolve it. That was a lot of fun.

The argument of page size is totally relevant. War Machine is effective and economical. If you have a war and you want it resolved now that is certainly the way to go. In fact, I'd perhaps embed those rules in a game where war is a major backdrop, but the focus is still on individual action and intrigue. Perhaps another way to go would be to take Battlesystem and make it modular, and have those modules (like sheets for units) be used as options. You could have stats for an army that are vague, or you can get more specific. I think it really depends on the tone you are trying to establish in the game.

I'm rather disappointe the OSR hasn't resulted in the publishing of any notable huge megadungeons yet of the kind that seemed to be discussed/worshipped quite often in regards to the OSR's patron saints.

Quote from: TristramEvans;927999I'm rather disappointe the OSR hasn't resulted in the publishing of any notable huge megadungeons yet of the kind that seemed to be discussed/worshipped quite often in regards to the OSR's patron saints.

That's something I'd like to see, too.

Quote from: Psikerlord;927375Has anyone done steampunk OSR yet?

I wrote this one : A Society of Unlikely Gentlemen.