Ahhh, now I understand the confusion . . .

Quote from: Tristram Evans;934652. . . 'Go Fer Yer Gun' (Boot Hill retroclones) . . .

. . . is that you haven't the first clue what a retro-clone is.

Good to know.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;934711Ahhh, now I understand the confusion . . .


. . . is that you haven't the first clue what a retro-clone is.

Good to know.

:rolleyes:

While I may not personally read every game and verify if it is in fact a retroclone, pseudoclone, retrovamp, or any other such variation (especially in regards to "Boot Hill" Jesus, I couldn't think of a game that makes me go flaccid with disinterest faster), the distinctions are meaningless in regards to a commentary on the overall trend. In other words, the point you're attempting to sidestep is that the entire "re-do/recapture/re-release with my personal special snowflake houserules" RPG movement is something that began a long time ago (basically once the internet became mainstream and the publishing barrier disappeared from the hobby), and the OSR is an outgrowth of that.

But then, you're not an idiot. You already knew that my point had been made when you made your flippant response based on a pedantic nitpick.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;934713While I may not personally read every game and verify if it is in fact a retroclone . . .

So in offering those up as examples of retro-clones, you either outright lied or had no idea what you're talking about.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;934713You already knew that my point had been made . . .

Your point is as bullshit as your examples.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;934720Your point is as bullshit as your examples.

Ah, I see, you're trying to "win" the conversation, even if it means being intellectually dishonest. Pity, for some reason I expected better of you, though perhaps I simply viewed the time you were a regular on these forums before your return through rose-tinted glasses.

Anyways, you've succeeding in getting me to cease caring what you think, so any further elucidation on my part would be a waste of both of our time.

Or to put it in words you can understand through your no doubt constant agony due to the size of whatever implement it is  you've managed to lodge up your rectum...

Go fuck yourself, you disingenuous cunt

Quote from: estar;934693A fan of B/X D&D is going to be looking for stuff and products that target that specific edition first, other classic edition second, and then other old school games third. (...)
My Scourge of the Demon Wolf isn't going to be the at the top of his list when he plays a TFT campaign.

Maybe I am special that way but I hardly ever used a module with the system it was written for.

When I GM'd longer campaigns my players were well-versed in the product catalogue of the system: In my two AD&D campaigns were players who knew the whole TSR back catalog (but were oblivious to the rest of the hobby). In my Midgard campaign all players save one GM'd their own Midgard campaigns, knowing all official stuff down to fanzine content (but despised D&D for being "a mindless dungeoneering game"...), etc.

So I learned to look for thematically fitting material of fringe systems (Dragon Warriors, Ars Magica, LoreMaster) or magazines no one read in Germany (Tortured Souls, Casus Belli, Complete GameMaster, Dungeon Magazine...).

Your Scourge would have been perfect for my Midgard campaign.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;934730Maybe I am special that way but I hardly ever used a module with the system it was written for.

You're not that special, I know a few people that are doing the exact same thing:).

Write damn games you fucking like to play and stop yanking your microscopic peeners over attaching some sort of label to them.


* sets thread on fire *
* pisses on the ashes *

Gronan, do you really want to delete something like 90% of all RPG forum threads on Internet:D?

Quote from: AsenRG;934745Gronan, do you really want to delete something like 90% of all RPG forum threads on Internet:D?

Why not? That still leaves 450% overlap.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;934742Write damn games you fucking like to play and stop yanking your microscopic peeners over attaching some sort of label to them.

OG, as a student of history, you ken better than most that understanding How We Got Here matters.

So put away your lighter and use the urinal, and please, watch your aim and remember to jiggle the handle when you're done as I don't want to be in there for an hour with the mop again.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;934730Maybe I am special that way but I hardly ever used a module with the system it was written for.

Sure, I said before the default is to kitbash the campaign together. The problem that I face that people are picky about what they PAY to kitbash with. And yes I get people buying Scourge and my other stuff to use with non D&D games all the time. But it not where the majority of my sales comes from. Now for the free downloads like Blackmarsh there is a lot more non D&D gamers from I can tell. But even then plurality are from classic D&D hobbyists.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;934730So I learned to look for thematically fitting material of fringe systems (Dragon Warriors, Ars Magica, LoreMaster) or magazines no one read in Germany (Tortured Souls, Casus Belli, Complete GameMaster, Dungeon Magazine...).

Your Scourge would have been perfect for my Midgard campaign.

Appreciate the compliment. I do the same. I use a lot of Ars Magica and Harnmaster stuff with the Majestic Wilderlands myself.

I am not arguing against kitbashing, or saying it doesn't go a lot. Only that it doesn't suffice to rely on that when you are trying to sell. From the publishing angle the OSR label helps to alert people that you are targeting one of the classic editions of D&D or you doing close to a classic edition like Stars with Numbers or White Star.

From a hobbyist angle for downloads, it means that you are dealing with stat lite material that probably has a lot of content for the page count. So if you are running GURPS or Fantasy Age, you can easily spot where you need to put in  work fleshing out NPCs and creatures. As opposed to 3.5e/Pathfinder where the stat blocks dominate the page count.

I am not THE authority on what the OSR is or isn't. I can say that it is centered classic D&D hobbyists. The more your work (either for sale or just download) is from that center the less appeal it will have to that group on average. There are things you can do to overcome that if you think what you have really fits. For that I recommend studying what Goodman Games did with Dungeon Crawl Classics.

And the best part is you don't have to believe me, anybody can try it and see how far they get. Either they get the views, downloads, players, or sales or they don't. That the challenge I laid in front of the Pundit. That Taliban he rails against doesn't exist and there literally nothing stopping him from get his work out there. And I was right. And he did by doing his own thing with a pair of semi-historical fantasy setting rules/supplements.

Even at it most commercial the OSR and its open content foundation puts no barriers in front of a person getting his stuff out there. If it of use to a classic D&D campaign, and I use 'of use' very loosely here, then an OSR audience can be found.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;934759OG, as a student of history, you ken better than most that understanding How We Got Here matters.

So put away your lighter and use the urinal, and please, watch your aim and remember to jiggle the handle when you're done as I don't want to be in there for an hour with the mop again.

1) Okay, if we actually discuss it like adults.

2) Hey, I know how to aim.  If I had ever missed my mother would have wiped it up with me.  Even my wife admits I know how to aim that thing.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;934667What were those competing rulesets, and which ones would have been suitable for hacking an RPG from it?

Great question!!

Gronan, pour out thy brain upon us!

And somebody should ask Chirine as well!

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;934695We have a deal in the works for brick & mortar stores, with details to follow after the holiday.

Major congrats! That's awesome news!

BTW, have you looked into a UK partner as well? I imagine the home of WFRP might have lots of potential fans.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;934695And yes, we are releasing ZWEIHÄNDER under Creative Commons License, with an option for publication through Grim & Perilous Studios. The creators of Eclipse Phase was my biggest influence here on this piece: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/

When is that happening?

I have a few Warhammer convention games I've run many times over the years that might be fun to publish.

...and I KNOW that I don't have to ask you to keep us posted!!

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;934667I wouldn't call UABM a retroclone, it's more a setting/genre hack.

But while researching the year of M&M's genesis I found an info that I didn't know, namely that Olivier Legrand didn't come up with the "what if" scenario himself. He wrote the game as a reaction to an RPG.net column: The Gygax - Arneson Tapes.

I found that via an RPG.net review

Check this old page from the original Mazes & Minotaurs website for the whole story:

http://storygame.free.fr/how.html

Quote from: Spinachcat;934796Great question!!

Gronan, pour out thy brain upon us!

And somebody should ask Chirine as well!




Major congrats! That's awesome news!

BTW, have you looked into a UK partner as well? I imagine the home of WFRP might have lots of potential fans.




When is that happening?

I have a few Warhammer convention games I've run many times over the years that might be fun to publish.

...and I KNOW that I don't have to ask you to keep us posted!!

My recollection of that era mostly relates to the other side of the pond where there were a couple of trends in wargaming toward more personal identification with the little lead guys on the table.

One was personality driven campaigns, where battles occurred not in isolation but in a broader context, and the context was driven by personalities. E.g. Tony Bath's Hyboria and to some extent Charles Grant 's Lorraine. There were books and articles about both, but they were very DIY campaigns, and the rules were basically "big battalions" tabletop rules.

And then there was the skirmish gaming trend. Tabletop battles in which each figure represented only a single individual. Many, many rulesets developed, for many periods.

Both approaches still exist, and can be a lot of fun, but none can be hacked into an rpg, really. Or if you did, you'd be inventing rpgs. Which has already been done. That's  what happened in the early 70s.