LOL, music to my ears that this is shit.

Quote from: Monero on July 23, 2024, 08:57:54 PMImagine thinking 5e is "bloated" with rules. If anything 5e is rules lite which is why I don't like it.

It certainly depends upon one's perspective, and frame of reference.

Lion & Dragon, or Swords & Wizardry make D&D 5E seem like bloated overkill; but Pathfinder 1E, makes D&D 5E seem simple.

Quote from: Monero on July 23, 2024, 08:57:54 PMImagine thinking 5e is "bloated" with rules. If anything 5e is rules lite which is why I don't like it.

Not sure if you watched the video, but I was specifically talking about how it is becoming relatively bloated for the mission statement of the original designers of 5e (including me): to create a game that is extremely friendly to "casual" players.

I prefer to describe it in the more page count positive way of woke at any size!

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 24, 2024, 04:14:11 PM

Quote from: Monero on July 23, 2024, 08:57:54 PMImagine thinking 5e is "bloated" with rules. If anything 5e is rules lite which is why I don't like it.

Not sure if you watched the video, but I was specifically talking about how it is becoming relatively bloated for the mission statement of the original designers of 5e (including me): to create a game that is extremely friendly to "casual" players.

wotc's idea of friendly to casual players is to make it friendly to anyone who complains apparently, as long at it fits their agenda.

5e was pretty casual friendly. Its probably the simplest D&D has been to actually learn and play short of BX D&D. 5e Basic and Essentials does a fair job.

Of course wotc can not ever accept anything working and are compelled to fuck it up.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 24, 2024, 04:14:11 PM

Quote from: Monero on July 23, 2024, 08:57:54 PMImagine thinking 5e is "bloated" with rules. If anything 5e is rules lite which is why I don't like it.

Not sure if you watched the video, but I was specifically talking about how it is becoming relatively bloated for the mission statement of the original designers of 5e (including me): to create a game that is extremely friendly to "casual" players.

I think it's funny how as time goes on, your role in the design and development of 5e seems to have grown. At least as you tell it.

You were not one of the "original designers of 5e". You were a consultant, and one among many.

Quote from: LouProsperi on July 25, 2024, 06:06:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 24, 2024, 04:14:11 PM

Quote from: Monero on July 23, 2024, 08:57:54 PMImagine thinking 5e is "bloated" with rules. If anything 5e is rules lite which is why I don't like it.

Not sure if you watched the video, but I was specifically talking about how it is becoming relatively bloated for the mission statement of the original designers of 5e (including me): to create a game that is extremely friendly to "casual" players.

I think it's funny how as time goes on, your role in the design and development of 5e seems to have grown. At least as you tell it.

You were not one of the "original designers of 5e". You were a consultant, and one among many.

The possibility exists, that he could have been involved in any of the different aspects, of the 2014 D&D 5E PHB.  WOTC didn't get specific, when giving credit to contributors. 

I'd love to hear one day, what some of his influential ideas were; that made their way into the PHB.  WOTC took a dump on their contributors.  No harm in Pundit spilling the beans, now.

Quote from: LouProsperi on July 25, 2024, 06:06:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 24, 2024, 04:14:11 PM

Quote from: Monero on July 23, 2024, 08:57:54 PMImagine thinking 5e is "bloated" with rules. If anything 5e is rules lite which is why I don't like it.

Not sure if you watched the video, but I was specifically talking about how it is becoming relatively bloated for the mission statement of the original designers of 5e (including me): to create a game that is extremely friendly to "casual" players.

I think it's funny how as time goes on, your role in the design and development of 5e seems to have grown. At least as you tell it.

You were not one of the "original designers of 5e". You were a consultant, and one among many.

To my knowledge, the only one to have exchanged literally hundreds of correspondences with Mike Mearls. It was in fact one of the points I emphasized above all: that for 5e to be a long-running evergreen success it had to be the opposite of what Cook & Tweet had done with 'system mastery'. A lot of my consulting (and totally unlike any other consultant that I know of) consisted of picking apart elements of the early rules that were too complicated.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 26, 2024, 05:33:06 AM

Quote from: LouProsperi on July 25, 2024, 06:06:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 24, 2024, 04:14:11 PM

Quote from: Monero on July 23, 2024, 08:57:54 PMImagine thinking 5e is "bloated" with rules. If anything 5e is rules lite which is why I don't like it.

Not sure if you watched the video, but I was specifically talking about how it is becoming relatively bloated for the mission statement of the original designers of 5e (including me): to create a game that is extremely friendly to "casual" players.

I think it's funny how as time goes on, your role in the design and development of 5e seems to have grown. At least as you tell it.

You were not one of the "original designers of 5e". You were a consultant, and one among many.

To my knowledge, the only one to have exchanged literally hundreds of correspondences with Mike Mearls. It was in fact one of the points I emphasized above all: that for 5e to be a long-running evergreen success it had to be the opposite of what Cook & Tweet had done with 'system mastery'. A lot of my consulting (and totally unlike any other consultant that I know of) consisted of picking apart elements of the early rules that were too complicated.

I don't doubt that you corresponded extensively with Mike Mearls, or that you emphasized a move away from "System Mastery", or that you picked apart parts of the rules from older editions. And the fact that WotC actually listed you by name (I recall they used your real name originally - did they change that to "RPGPundit" at some point?) in the credits of the early printing(s) suggests that your contributions were note worthy. That's cool.

That said, none of that makes you one of the "original designers of 5e". It makes you what you were: a consultant (sometimes also known as a playtester).

Regarding System Mastery, I don't think it's bad thing, but I agree it's less important than making the game approachable to casual players. The real trick, IMO, is designing a system that is approachable to new and casual players but that also rewards System Mastery.


Lou Prosperi

Quote from: Jason Coplen on June 26, 2024, 06:09:16 PM5E is gay. 6E will be even more so. After 2E, D&D went to total shit.

If 5E is gay, 6E is a trans woman trying to enter women's soccer.  Its gonna get real cringe, real fast.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 26, 2024, 05:33:06 AM

Quote from: LouProsperi on July 25, 2024, 06:06:15 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 24, 2024, 04:14:11 PM

Quote from: Monero on July 23, 2024, 08:57:54 PMImagine thinking 5e is "bloated" with rules. If anything 5e is rules lite which is why I don't like it.

WotC should have went the TSR splat book route first.  Then they could resell them again in a comprehensive rules guide.  Sales isn't that hard to generate.  Plus having your customers buy it on the VTT and then buy it again to get the comprehensive guide, just makes more cash over cash.

Not sure if you watched the video, but I was specifically talking about how it is becoming relatively bloated for the mission statement of the original designers of 5e (including me): to create a game that is extremely friendly to "casual" players.

I think it's funny how as time goes on, your role in the design and development of 5e seems to have grown. At least as you tell it.

You were not one of the "original designers of 5e". You were a consultant, and one among many.

To my knowledge, the only one to have exchanged literally hundreds of correspondences with Mike Mearls. It was in fact one of the points I emphasized above all: that for 5e to be a long-running evergreen success it had to be the opposite of what Cook & Tweet had done with 'system mastery'. A lot of my consulting (and totally unlike any other consultant that I know of) consisted of picking apart elements of the early rules that were too complicated.

Quote from: LouProsperi on July 26, 2024, 10:52:25 AM(I recall they used your real name originally - did they change that to "RPGPundit" at some point?) in the credits of the early printing(s) suggests that your contributions were note worthy. That's cool.

I have the 1st printing of the 5e books and its RPGPundit there.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on July 26, 2024, 02:12:45 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on June 26, 2024, 06:09:16 PM5E is gay. 6E will be even more so. After 2E, D&D went to total shit.

If 5E is gay, 6E is a trans woman trying to enter women's soccer.  Its gonna get real cringe, real fast.

Can it get more cringe than it already has? Don't answer that. They'll think of new and dumber ways.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on July 26, 2024, 02:33:22 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on July 26, 2024, 02:12:45 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on June 26, 2024, 06:09:16 PM5E is gay. 6E will be even more so. After 2E, D&D went to total shit.

If 5E is gay, 6E is a trans woman trying to enter women's soccer.  Its gonna get real cringe, real fast.

Can it get more cringe than it already has? Don't answer that. They'll think of new and dumber ways.

Hanah's nickname should be the "Concussion Giver".

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on July 26, 2024, 03:55:48 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on July 26, 2024, 02:33:22 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on July 26, 2024, 02:12:45 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on June 26, 2024, 06:09:16 PM5E is gay. 6E will be even more so. After 2E, D&D went to total shit.

If 5E is gay, 6E is a trans woman trying to enter women's soccer.  Its gonna get real cringe, real fast.

Can it get more cringe than it already has? Don't answer that. They'll think of new and dumber ways.

Hanah's nickname should be the "Concussion Giver".

That's a huge bitch!

Err, I mean dude. That's frightening to view. He's going to be kicking girl ass while morons cheer him on. It's sickening.