I don't know -- I really like Nemesis (from Dennis Detwiller), and if I run anything Cthulhu in the future there's a very good chance that I will use that.

Quote from: blakkieI don't know about carrying a gun or not, but in the face of an ineffable monstrosity isn't a gun just a fashion accessory?

Why the problem with letting characters have them then? If it really makes no fucking difference?

QuoteSo why was such a run-away ultra popular bright and shining future money maker allowed to die? :pundit:

The D20 CoC book was  a huge success. The line was cancelled by Chaosium because, in short, Chaosium is run by retards.  In the longer explanation: Chaosium is run by retards who try to re-release the same book over and over again in new "editions" and would rather keep doing that than actually do any work with a product like that equated to a money-printing machine for them; they were scared that D20 CoC's success would kill BRP CoC, which is really a very stupid fear. Ultimately, the people in charge of Chaosium were anti-D20.

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Quote from: SosthenesBecause it was never meant to live. CoC D20 was an exhibition bit, "look what we can do with this new-fangled D20 system". The same goes for the Wheel of Time RPG. CoC D20 apparently sold pretty damn well, but WotC never meant to support it and the folks at Chaosium never liked the system (Chaosium == BRP &&  D20 == D&D)

Wizards wasn't allowed, by nature of the deal they made with chaosium, to release any products for D20 CoC. I have it on good stead that certain people in there desperately wanted to, and were shocked when Chaosium dumped D20 CoC in what could only be described as one of the most boneheaded moves in the history of RPGs.

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It isn't so much the police or anything else in the game mechanics or setting that discourages the use of guns, its this conception that the Swine have created that somehow that isn't an appropriate part of the "Lovecraft emulation" to try to use weapons or to have characters that are capable in combat situations; conveniently ignoring things like FBI raids on voodoo cultists, bombing the deep one's city, and ramming Cthulhu with a ship in the fucking main short story, for fuck's sake.

Meanwhile, GUMSHOE apparently = resource management game.
Shit.

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The CoC rules recommend that some characters should be physically capable, that's good enough for me.

As for CoC d20, I think it was flawed in many ways and I think there have been far better d20 games.  For me, much as I wanted to like it (and I did) I thought it ultimately failed as a game.

You differ and that's fine, but I think there are far better iterations of d20 than CoC and I don't ultimately think CoC d20 was good enough to really merit survival.

Here's what I know. The new game will:

•Be written by Ken Hite
•Use the Gumshoe system designed by Robin Laws.
•Be set in the 1930s
•Have it's own name

And that's what I have for now.

Quote from: RPGPunditWhy the problem with letting characters have them then? If it really makes no fucking difference?

No problem at all. If there is a version that disallows or doesn't have rules for pistols I've yet to see it. But then I haven't read them all.

However, as was pointed out above, a CoC game is typically set in 'civil' society where the repeated and brazen discharge of weapons is likely to bring stark negative reprocusions....unless you are a Gman as part of a big bug hunt.

Speaking of which I have to get to my SR game I'm a player in. At the end of last session we had just gotten pulled over (long story, but for not for something we did).  I've got to figure out how to clear things up before they do a strip search and find the machine pistol I have tucked in my Actioneer Suit. The one loaded with armor piercing rounds.

Quote from: RPGPunditI always found it funny that the Cthulhu Swine insist that any player who has a gun isn't "doing it right" somehow, as if once we complete the investigating part we're just supposed to go up to the ghastly beastly thing and ask it very politely to "please stop being an ineffable monstrosity from beyond the limits of human comprehension".

Weird.  I've been playing CoC on and off again since its original publication, and I don't think I've ever met any of these alleged "Cthulhu Swine".  Are you sure you aren't just imagining a conflict where none truly exists?  Perhaps this is a reaction-formation to the (ill-informed) accusations that CoC D20 encouraged hack-n-slay CoC play?  The counter-hostility should be beneath you.

The fact of the matter is that a player who has a character with only a gun doesn't understand the game.  Delta Green went a long way toward establishing a solid pairing of firepower with intelligence gathering.  It happily embraces the so-called "hack-n-slay" mentality, but it butresses it with a "think-or-die" sensibility.

!i!

Quote from: BalbinusThe CoC rules recommend that some characters should be physically capable, that's good enough for me.

As for CoC d20, I think it was flawed in many ways and I think there have been far better d20 games.  For me, much as I wanted to like it (and I did) I thought it ultimately failed as a game.

You differ and that's fine, but I think there are far better iterations of d20 than CoC and I don't ultimately think CoC d20 was good enough to really merit survival.

All I can say to this is that I actually played in a campaign of CoC d20 that lasted for the better part of a year (an adapted Beyond the Mountains of Madness) and it ran fantastically well. I've played the BRP over the years, and don't see that the d20 version "failed" or wasn't "good enough" to last. Matter of fact, the game seemed pretty damned successful as a design, based on how smoothly it ran in actual play.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWeird.  I've been playing CoC on and off again since its original publication, and I don't think I've ever met any of these alleged "Cthulhu Swine".  Are you sure you aren't just imagining a conflict where none truly exists?  Perhaps this is a reaction-formation to the (ill-informed) accusations that CoC D20 encouraged hack-n-slay CoC play?  The counter-hostility should be beneath you.

The release of CoC brought that mentality to new heights, as the Cthulhu swine could suddenly unite two of their passions: being pretentious about CoC and hating D20.

However, the issue itself existed long before that. Throughout the 90s, a mentality developed in the CoC fandom where certain section believed that the Cthulhu game was meant to be about "investigation" and roleplaying your character's subsequent break down or death, or trying to find some way of stopping the evil alien menace that didn't involve blowing it all to shit.  It became the general consensus among this group that somehow using violence to eliminate the problem was somehow "Not in the true spirit of Lovecraft" even though in almost every Lovecraft story where the good guys actually WIN they do so by blowing the big bad all to shit.  

As usual, a considerable faction of these swine are present on RPG.net, or at least they were back in my time there; since then the weight of the evidence might have managed to shut them the fuck up, I wouldn't know for sure.

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Anybody remember American Badass and his CoC game? That certainly had people in a flap.

I agree with Ian, I've never heard of this "swinish" attitude.  Everyone I know who's played Cthulhu knows the value of a shotgun.

American Badass ruffled a few feathers initially but by and large his posts were seen as the comedy gold they were.  They weren't just combat heavy though, they were insane... they had Jimmy Paige playing at Drizzt Do'Urden's funeral.

Yeah, you could be right. There were people who liked his take on it and people who didn't, as I recall.

Personally, I find CoC just as boring either way, so damned if I care.

QuoteWeird. I've been playing CoC on and off again since its original publication, and I don't think I've ever met any of these alleged "Cthulhu Swine".

I've been hearing people espouse the very philosophy that Pundit describes for ages.  It seemed to be damn near taken as read on RPGnet, with the exception of the occasional holdout who'd show up now and then and make a thread, or drop into a thread and ask "WTF are you people talking about?" and try, in vain, to point to the source material as reason why this wasn't really the case.

When the FPS game came out, there were even a bunch of people whining about how much shooting of things was involved, claiming it wasn't in the spirit or some crap.

Quote from: blakkieSpeaking of which I have to get to my SR game I'm a player in. At the end of last session we had just gotten pulled over (long story, but for not for something we did).  I've got to figure out how to clear things up before they do a strip search and find the machine pistol I have tucked in my Actioneer Suit. The one loaded with armor piercing rounds.

*insert evil GM laughter here*