Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095585No, I was agreeing, apologies if it seemed otherwise. I just didn't make the connection until you mentioned it, so good link. Super powered body horror dissidents? Yeah, totally Bioshock.

Does that mean I can kill people with a murder of crows?

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1095654Does that mean I can kill people with a murder of crows?

Yes actually, IIRC the class that has pet hyenas (Carrion Priest?) eventually can summon murderous flocks of crows.

Quote from: Simlasa;1095523The rules seem nowhere near as storygamey as I'd expected.

Tell us about the rules!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1095659Tell us about the rules!

Besides what's in the OP, what else would you like to know?

Quote from: Simlasa;1095656Yes actually, IIRC the class that has pet hyenas (Carrion Priest?) eventually can summon murderous flocks of crows.

You recall correctly. It's really fucking awesome. I didn't expect to like the Carrion Priest as much as I do.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095672Besides what's in the OP, what else would you like to know?

What exactly separates the game from a traditional RPG system?

AKA, if I don't like narrative RPG systems, what isn't going to work for me here?

And the Carrion Priest sounds awesome.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1095690What exactly separates the game from a traditional RPG system?

AKA, if I don't like narrative RPG systems, what isn't going to work for me here?

And the Carrion Priest sounds awesome.

First off, yes, the Carrion Priest is awesome. Every class is, honestly. As far as the rules go, what aspects of more narrative games puts you off? It's easier to address those bits than shotgun.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1095690What exactly separates the game from a traditional RPG system?

AKA, if I don't like narrative RPG systems, what isn't going to work for me here?

I'm not too fond of Narrativium in my games either, but so far as I've read there isn't anything in this game that put me off.

I heard the authors say in an interview that they weren't fans of the PBTA system.

There is a GM, who does get to roll dice.

It's got a fair bit of alt-jargon... like an encounter is a 'situation', HP of a physical/mental/social/financial sort are 'resistances', experience gains you 'advances'. But its not too cloying and generally serves to reinforce the atmosphere.

A lot of the possible consequences for good or bad rolls are left up to the GM, sometimes the Player with GM approval.

There is a bit of letting the Player describe things, like their initial Bonds (valuable relationships within Spire). The classes have abilities that are often magical/divine that let a Player declare something about an NPC or a location... but the GM generally still has a say in it.

It's a simple system with a lot of abstractions that the GM and Players will need to hang flesh on... but I saw nothing like Fate points that let a player full on retcon something or 'narrate' an occurence without involving some sort of magical/divine/weird power.
Also, being so simple, anything like that would be a cinch to just ignore/alter if it bugged me.

I haven't read the GM advice section yet, and I believe it might push a 'fail forward' sort of style... but again, easily ignored.
I'm not sure whether I'd run it by the RAW or port the setting to another system I know/like... I don't think it would be too hard at all to translate it to something like Mythras, with its cults and gangs and such... but I certainly wouldn't be at all adverse to playing in a game using them.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1095690What exactly separates the game from a traditional RPG system?

AKA, if I don't like narrative RPG systems, what isn't going to work for me here?

I'm not too fond of Narrativium in my games, but I haven't seen anything in my read-through of Spire (so far) that puts me off.

There is a traditional GM, the game doesn't gimp them, they get to roll dice.
For what it's worth, I heard the authors say, in an interview, that they're not fans of the PBTA systems.

There are not stats/characteristics (STR, DEX, CON...). There are Skills and 'Domains' and 'Advances' which empower the PCs by giving them more dice to roll... but it's not a dice pool game. You usually only count whichever D10 rolls the highest (so like getting multiple Advantage in 5e).
There are classes but not exactly levels... PCs get 'Advances' (Feats/powers) for doing things that affect the setting for good or ill. The GM determines how big the change was and what degree of Advance to reward.

There is a fair bit of alt-jargon... encounters are 'Situations', HP for physical/mental/financial/social damage is 'Resistance', damage is 'Stress. None of it is too awfully cloying, doesn't come off as trying to be 'clever' and generally reinforces the atmosphere IMO.

There's nothing too meta, like Fate points, that let PCs retcon stuff or conjure aid for no reason (though there are some Advances that enable that, but they're generally magical/divine and the GM gets a say).

Players do get to describe their initial 'Bonds' (valuable connections within Spire) but, that's no biggie (and nothing says the GM can't nix whatever they come up with).

The rules are very simple and fairly abstract about the consequences of any dice roll... leaving it up to the GM (and possibly Players) to supply the details. I can see how this aspect could be pushed toward or away from a more storygame-ish playstyle, but the suggestion is to follow 'common sense' rather than what is best for 'the story'.

I haven't got to the GM's advice section yet, and I assume I might have some qualms with its 'fail forward' suggetions... but that stuff isn't hard coded into the rules.

As far as dreaded 'politics' go... there is a section, (unnecessary IMO) regarding slavery in the setting... since every Drow is assumed to go through a period of 'Durance' (indentured servitude) to become a quasi-citizen. That, or they somehow bought their way out of it, or went underground to avoid it. The authors felt the need to let the reader know they had no interest in exploring chattel slavery (which Durance is not).

Also, the text of the rules mixes pronouns (again, with an author's note explaining)... he/she/they... freely. This tripped me up a few times where I was skimming and got confused about whether a reference was to singular or plural.

Overall, the rules definitely nod to 'modern' RPGs... but to my eyes there's nothing self-satified or 'innovative' about them... no different for the sake of being different. The authors don't talk dirt about other systems (unlike some of the folks I've seen promoting it).

It's been a day so no time to hop on until now. By and large the above is spot on. It's a very cool game and if a bizarre, creepy twist on drow, fantasy and even a wee bit of "cyberpunk" is your jam, I'd take a peek.

Quote from: Simlasa;1095777There is a fair bit of alt-jargon... encounters are 'Situations', HP for physical/mental/financial/social damage is 'Resistance', damage is 'Stress.

I think you've become so used to game jargon that common terminology now sounds like jargon

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1095861I think you've become so used to game jargon that common terminology now sounds like jargon

Whatever... I'm just pointing out stuff to Spinachcat that people often complain about in 'new' games, such as pointlessly renaming common elements of RPGs. None of it bothered me in Spire.

Thank you Simlasa and AC!

Great breakdown. Not thrilled with the jargon, but that's not a deal-breaker.

The setting alone seems that it would be worth stealing if I didn't want to use the system.

I wouldn't sweat the jargon, Spinachcat, it's not really jarring. Even as a fan of what are considered "Forgey storygames", Spire doesn't smack of that. I need to actually use the system to give a truly informed opinion, but at first blush it's really neat. A big thing, as was mentioned, is that barring some power there's no meta-currency for players to fiddle with.