TheRPGSite

Anyone ever play the original or the newest (4th?)? Any good?

The original I got to play all of once. Its a VERY solid setting and looking at Fallout it feels at times like someone working on it must have played Morrow Project at some point.

I had 1st edition back in the day. I vaguely remember the rules it used. I now have 3rd edition, which uses BRP rules. Played most of it. Haven't touched 4th edition at all. I liked the setting of Morrow Project more than Twilight 2000. Liked the game mechanic more also. Now I use Mongoose Traveller to role-play in such Fallout settings though. Morrow Project 4th Edition uses a D100 mechanic, and has the latest rules/setting. I don't play D100 games anymore.

Our Metro Seattle Gamers GURPS group is currently playing a Morrow Project game using GURPS 4e. Cool setting conceit, I'm enjoying it thus far.

IIRC, in some of the later products, it actually suggests people use GURPs instead, which tells you how godawful the original system was.

I've heard about it for years but I never got into the official publications.  Did play for a brief time a Morrow Project game also with GURPS 4th, but my character sheet was four pages (single side) long and it quickly grew overwhelming for me so I sadly had to drop.  More sadly still because I was a hard-core GURPS 3rd fanatic for about ten years but got out of it close to the time they were going to produce 4th edition and never touched it (with that one time) since.

Nowadays, I would use Genesys for my homage to TMP as it's rapidly becoming my go-to game.

I got the feeling that the TMP 1st edition was pretty crunchy and it had tons of gear all statted out.  The original read as long lists of military gear and weapons of every stripe, similar to Phoenix Command and Twilight:2000.  There's a lot to keep track of.  There's pages dedicated to patterns of nuclear warheads, fallout, and radiation and how it accumulates in the PCs, for example, as well as keeping track of each vehicles' status and fuel consumption, state of repair, and so on.

They've managed to pack in a lot of stuff within around 70 or 80 pages IIRC.  

I had an opportunity to glance through the 4th ed book, but I can't recall anything specific offhand.  

HTH

Quote from: JeremyR;1021356IIRC, in some of the later products, it actually suggests people use GURPs instead, which tells you how godawful the original system was.

Ha! Must have been after market stuff, when the game was out of print for awhile.

I can't say I ever played any edition of this game.

The Morrow Project

Originally Published in 1980 by Richard Tucholka.

Todays review will consist of some commentary about the original edition as well as a review of The Morrow Project 3rd edition, which I picked up from Dave Chase back in 2004. If I can find it, I'll include a short interview with Dave, which happened a few years back during Origins 2004 when I found the Timeline Ltd. booth in the dealer hall.

The Morrow Project, which was one of the first Post-Apocalypse RPG titles released that featured a basic storyline about secret government enclaves whose personnel that were put into stasis for the specific purpose of reviving the culture and technology of America in the event of a holocaust. Well… with the Morrow Project, that holocaust came to be, and this is the story of various teams (Scientific, Mars, and Recon), that work to rebuild the shattered country hundreds of years after the war.  Timeline is doing well with the Morrow Project, and in addition to TM 1-1 The Morrow Project RPG, no less than eleven supplements are available for the Morrow Project.

Now the 4th edition, the newest edition was released in December of 2016, retails for $49.95 and you can order it online right here;
http://www.timelineltd.com/

Timeline Ltd. is now owned by Chris Garland, and he runs the website, as well as is selling the current edition of the Morrow Project. If you have a question you can reach him at chris@timelineltd.com

Timeline Ltd. on Twitter
https://twitter.com/morrowproject

Back in 1980 when I first purchased this bad boy, I had already been playing RPG's for a few years by then, and had already been running Gamma World, which we had been playing pretty often since 1977. At least three other of my friends, as well as myself, had created our own post-nuclear-holocaust, post-apocalyptic Earth, and we often ran games in this setting. Inspired by Andre Norton's Starman's Sun, and some really cool Sci-Fi shows from the early 1970's like Planet Earth produced by Gene Roddenberry which first aired as a CBS television special 1974 and its sequel also produced by Gene Roddenberry Strange New World (1975), as well as it's precursor Genesis II (1973) and Earth II (1971). These shows were originally broadcast in the primetime on CBS at 3 P.M. and I was lucky enough to watch them on their very first broadcast. Genesis II,  Planet Earth, and Strange New World was the story of a scientist named Dylan Hunt who had been awakened from suspended animation in a cryogenic chamber after a Nuclear Holocaust. He was the senior scientist on a team that had been put into suspended animation to be re-awakened later to help rebuild civilization after a catastrophe. As a side note, It seems especially coincidental that the pig faced mutants known as Kree were very similar to the pig faced orcs in original D&D.

The mid-70's featured another movie based on the similar premise, that of a military team that survived a nuclear holocaust, Damnation Alley, and then finally, at the end of the decade, Mad Max. These all, with the exception of possibly the last served as an inspiration for The Morrow Project. Damnation Alley featured the Landmaster, rugged RV which was later utilized for a popular saturday morning children's Post-Apocalyptic show ARK II, which was about a family of young scientists with their intelligent chimpanzee who travel around the country in the 25th century after the world has been ravaged by pollution.

Effects of the War
Now the first part of the game rules covers the nuclear holocaust and includes directions on how to calculate the size of various destruction zones, impact craters, and radioactive as well as biological weapons contamination that would result from an all out war. The Gamemaster or GM was expected to create a post-holocaust campaign map featuring his/her geographical area and including all of these details. Once this was completed, then players could create characters. For GMs this prep was actually a really fun exercise, and would allow one to use a standard road atlas map, and create a really good post-holocaust map using pretty much any road atlas.

Character Generation
Chargen uses 4d6-4 (which will give you a range of 0-20) for determining the following attributes Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Accuracy, Charisma, Luck. Next up you create body structure and blood points using a formula which are then divided into the various areas of the body. Richard Tucholka, when he first wrote this game wanted it to be as realistic as possible, and so used a hit location table for combat. This realism is reflected throughout the game, and being in the military at the time, he made extensive use of available military field manuals while creating this game, so much of the game world statistics are very accurate in a real world sense in order to immerse the player, and get the player to buy-in on the campaign. There is a section for Psionics though. Movement is based on Dexterity, and Dexterity determines the the number of actions you can take in a single game turn, up to a maximum of 5 although there is a point cost for actions, and some actions take more than one point. There is an additional attribute called Endurance which determines how long a character and move, work, fight, or explore, before requiring some time for rest. This includes a section on the use of stimulants to prolong endurance, with some additional side affects which will then occur later.

The book then goes into the various different types of teams which were placed into suspended animation, the players have to decide what kind of team they are a part of prior to play. The Teams I will briefly describe here;

Recon team - These are general purpose teams intended to seek out the condition of the countryside ahead of the other teams to help Prime Base decide what other teams should next be awakened (if any).

Scientific team - a non-specialized team designed to be capable of coping just about any situation. The Scientific Units are specially designed mobile laboratories with facilities for just about any of the sciences ranges from biology to nuclear physics, and personnel tend to be trained scientists and engineers.

MARS team - these are the military teams, MARS is an acronym which stands for Mobile Assault, Rescue & Strike forces.

Additional specialized teams include Engineering & Construction teams, Agricultural Rehabilitation teams, and Psych teams with personnel specifically trained to handle extremist groups and rioting mobs.

The next section covers available equipment, weapons, and vehicles. Before the game begins, The GM is responsible for Placement of the teams (which were scattered into subterranean bunkers to ensure the best chances of survival for a specific team). The GM pre-places a series of teams in the geographical area the game will cover, and the players may activate or contact additional Morrow Project NPC teams, or, if new players want to join the game, they can be assigned to one of these other pre-placed teams to expand the scope of the campaign or game.

The weapons, equipment, ammunition, and vehicle section are richly populated with plenty of crunchy detail gleaned from actual service manuals, and seem a bit dated now, however can be easily updated for more modern weapons and equipment by any competent GM. Basically the GM pre-places equipment, ammunition, and weapons caches for the players to sustain their team. The Morrow Project, is, after all, about Dr. Morrow, and his grand plans to save civilization in the event of a nuclear holocaust.

This next part of the original book contained rules on exploration and combat as well as animals, encounters, and the mutants of the new world, that the Morrow Project teams were likely to encounter.

Third Edition (which is the edition I own now) includes an expansion of the original game that was written up by Chaosium and Tadashi Ehara. This includes a section including streamlined skills, and combat mechanics. A section on how Morrow Project teams should work together, some nice rules on explosives, and their use. Armor Penetration formulas and tables, and rules for electrical, burn, and poison damage, as well as diseases and using edged weapons, and edged projectile weapons. Skills & Combat use a d100 percentile based system, and during Chargen skills are initial based on your attributes, and additional bonuses result from either background training as detailed in the book, or when characters successfully use a skill during the course of a week, then the player has a chance to increase that skill based on making a percentile roll that is less than 100 minus the current skill level.  The result is, the higher the skill level, the more difficult it is to actually improve that skill, although most of the players will start with a set of good skills and a better than 50% chance of success using their core skills.

The last few pages of the book include complete weather generation tables, the effects of aging on people and structures, an npc fast skills generation system, and details on PC/NPC relations and NPC tech levels likely to be encountered. The final section details various encounters, starting with human encounter types, and going into various post-apoc factions which includes random encounter tables. there is also Fauna encounters, which is animals, and this includes tables for mutated species, and mutant NPC encounters as well. There is some helpful tips on starting a running a game, some English to Metric conversion tables, and a glossary & bibliography on the last two pages.

The 66 pages that make up The Morrow Project 3rd edition, is a complete highly detailed game which can be run standalone, or that is an excellent supplement for Gamma World.

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The Morrow Project - Science base
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P.S. Notice how the U.S. Army blatantly copied my original XR-311 All-Terrain scout cars design and then renamed them HUMVEES.

References;

Earth II (1971)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067039/?ref_=tt_rec_tti

Genesis II (1973)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064366/?ref_=tt_rec_tti

Planet Earth (1974)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072000/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_133

Planet Earth Trailer on Youtube (available for $2.99)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goRHBASw1F8

Strange New World (1975)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073754/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_127

Strange New World Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkLRSmnP0ws

John Saxon's Website (been making movies for 65 years now)
http://www.johnsaxonsite.com/JohnSaxonSite/Welcome.html

You can ask him about these movies. For questions:
Glosaxon@gmail.com

Damnation Alley, with an Intro by Joe Bob Briggs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvLhyQVuyMI

ARK II Episodes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Kst31G2mU&list=PL-rICSWdAVsUGrbXRlftoZCAk6reTrie6

Good summary!

I'm interested in this game as well

My hangup comes in the 150 year thing.

I understand that this is sci fi but what machine could keep running flawlessly for 150 years without any hickups? I mean it's ridicoulous and kills the immerson for me

I like the overall concept is very cool but I would like to experiement and see what would happen if they were in a bunker and survived. How many years would you have to stay under a bunker before the radioactive fallout subsides?

That's where I want to go with it.

Quote from: briansommers;1056625I'm interested in this game as well

My hangup comes in the 150 year thing.

I understand that this is sci fi but what machine could keep running flawlessly for 150 years without any hickups? I mean it's ridicoulous and kills the immerson for me

I like the overall concept is very cool but I would like to experiement and see what would happen if they were in a bunker and survived. How many years would you have to stay under a bunker before the radioactive fallout subsides?

That's where I want to go with it.

I think they have a game for that.... Fallout.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056640I think they have a game for that.... Fallout.

Except this predated Fallout by about seventeen years or so, dumbass.

Still, I have been interested in playing both The Morrow Project and Twilight 2000.

I wouldn't mind running either setting using the mechanics of Big Eyes Small Mouth 1E, definitely incorporating the extra materials found in the Hot Rods & Gun Bunnies supplement and the Dominion Tank Police RPG as well, as those were both 1E BESM materials.

Quote from: briansommers;1056625I'm interested in this game as well

My hangup comes in the 150 year thing.

I understand that this is sci fi but what machine could keep running flawlessly for 150 years without any hickups? I mean it's ridicoulous and kills the immerson for me

I like the overall concept is very cool but I would like to experiement and see what would happen if they were in a bunker and survived. How many years would you have to stay under a bunker before the radioactive fallout subsides?

That's where I want to go with it.

The original plan for TMP was to have the project personnel emerge shortly after the "event" to help with rebuilding. The 150 years after was because stuff broke and the personnel continued to sleep. In many of the modules the teams wake up because the equipment is failing for one reason or another.

I find it somewhat odd that you don't have a problem with the use of suspended animation, but then get hung up on the realistic reliability of the tech (it sort of needs to be ultra reliable to do the job it was designed to do).

If it helps the PCs wake up late, it wasn't intended that they sleep so long. They don't know how late and generally have no knowledge of the fate of the rest of the project. As far as they know they may be the only team, the rest of the project may have awoken on time and failed before their team was activated, all the others may have died in their bunkers and the PCs were lucky enough to get the cryo-tubes made by very attentive workers who did everything perfectly. Maybe the tubes are very reliable and the un-activated teams will someday be revived by future archaeologists.


If the 150 years really wrecks it for you, without getting into specific spoilers there is plenty in the material to suggest some teams awoke on time, and that teams have been waking late but earlier than the 150 years assumed in most of the game. It would have some effect on specific modules, but there is no reason you couldn't run a game set closer to the end event instead of the assumed 150 years after. One could even have a team wake hundreds of years later in a future society where they are seen as primitive (Futurama the RPG).

Most of the modules could easily be run as little as 50-60 years after without serious issue. Life expectancy would certainly be reduced in a post nuclear future making still living witnesses to the "event" be very rare to practically nonexistent, with most active survivors being 2-3 generations beyond direct knowledge of the "before times".

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056654Except this predated Fallout by about seventeen years or so, dumbass.

Still, I have been interested in playing both The Morrow Project and Twilight 2000.

I wouldn't mind running either setting using the mechanics of Big Eyes Small Mouth 1E, definitely incorporating the extra materials found in the Hot Rods & Gun Bunnies supplement and the Dominion Tank Police RPG as well, as those were both 1E BESM materials.

You're too dumb for you're own good. My response was to briansommers want of life in a bunker waiting out fallout dangers.

But like most of your posts, around here, you are neither on topic or relevant.

Quote from: CausticJedi;1021357Nowadays, I would use Genesys for my homage to TMP as it's rapidly becoming my go-to game.

I saw that last in hardcover at Orc's Nest. Here's the thing: is it good? And I liked EOTE, so how does it stack up against it? I'mma put in on my purchase shortlist maybe.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056640I think they have a game for that.... Fallout.

(http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/smiles/cainapproves.png)

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056654Except this predated Fallout by about seventeen years or so, dumbass.

Oi! What the fuck is wrong with you? That's totally uncalled for. So you miss everyone else making a Fallout reference and single out this guy? Dude...

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056659You're too dumb for you're own good. My response was to briansommers want of life in a bunker waiting out fallout dangers.

But like most of your posts, around here, you are neither on topic or relevant.

Actually, my post was on topic, retard.

The thread is about The Morrow Project and I expressed that I like the concept of the game and would love to run it in a system I am familiar with, since I do not own the original rules.

Go fuck yourself and shut the fuck up, you irrelevant Alt-Right faggot.

Now, to get back on topic, how much would a copy of the newest Morrow Project rules cost and which edition has the best rules?

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056662Actually, my post was on topic, retard.

The thread is about The Morrow Project and I expressed that I like the concept of the game and would love to run it in a system I am familiar with, since I do not own the original rules.

Go fuck yourself and shut the fuck up, you irrelevant Alt-Right faggot.

Now, to get back on topic, how much would a copy of the newest Morrow Project rules cost and which edition has the best rules?

And now you sound like an RPG.NETer whom you claim to despise.

Good job hero.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056663And now you sound like an RPG.NETer whom you claim to despise.

Good job hero.

Hey, I don't normally shriek about the Alt-Right but when it comes to hateful idiots like you, I call them as I see them.

Back on topic, could the Morrow Project work well with Big Eyes Small Mouth?

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1056660Oi! What the fuck is wrong with you? That's totally uncalled for. So you miss everyone else making a Fallout reference and single out this guy? Dude...

Ras Algethi is a right-wing maniac and a delusional know-it-all with an unwarranted superiority complex.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1056660Oi! What the fuck is wrong with you? That's totally uncalled for. So you miss everyone else making a Fallout reference and single out this guy? Dude...

He has some weird obsession. He'll randomly pop into threads and shitpost taking shots at me for no reason like he does in this thread (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39249-RPG-net-showing-its-true-colors&p=1056657&viewfull=1#post1056657).

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056665Hey, I don't normally shriek about the Alt-Right but when it comes to hateful idiots like you, I call them as I see them.

Ras Algethi is a right-wing maniac and a delusional know-it-all with an unwarranted superiority complex.

I made a Fallout comment. You went to hate.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056668He has some weird obsession. He'll randomly pop into threads and shitpost taking shots at me for no reason like he does in this thread (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39249-RPG-net-showing-its-true-colors&p=1056657&viewfull=1#post1056657).

We should just fuck and get it over with. Maybe a nice fuck will clear up some of that pent-up rage.

You may be a retarded contrarian, but you got a real purdy mouth on ya!

*insert Ras Algethi shitposting a screencap of a PM I sent him back in 2017*

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056673We should just fuck and get it over with. Maybe a nice fuck will clear up some of that pent-up rage.

Have you seen your face... yowsers!

QuoteYou may be a retarded contrarian, but you got a real purdy mouth on ya!

*insert Ras Algethi shitposting a screencap of a PM I sent him back in 2017*

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Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056670I made a Fallout comment. You went to hate.

And you overreacted to a misunderstanding. You really do have a vindictive obsession with me, you little punk ass bitch.

But enough thread derailment, I want to talk about The Morrow Project and not get distracted by your vindictive idiocy.

So, I wonder if the Morrow Project can be ran with other systems?

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056677Have you seen your face... yowsers!



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Of course you'd shitpost that tired old screencap.

You are so predictable, you bitch-ass faggot.

I may be ugly and I will own up to it, but you probably ain't no looker yourself.


Now, can we PLEASE get back to talking about The Morrow Project?

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056678And you overreacted to a misunderstanding. You really do have a vindictive obsession with me, you little punk ass bitch.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056654Except this predated Fallout by about seventeen years or so, dumbass.

How did I "misunderstand" the dumbass dig?

You can't dig yourself out of, yet another, shit post derailment.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056680How did I "misunderstand" the dumbass dig?

You can't dig yourself out of, yet another, shit post derailment.

I'm not trying to dig myself out of anything. I just want to talk about games, and if I piss you off then so be it.

If I really bother you that much, why don't you put me on your ignore list?

*cue the screencap*

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056683I'm not trying to dig myself out of anything. I just want to talk about games, and if I piss you off then so be it.

If I really bother you that much, why don't you put me on your ignore list?

*cue the screencap*

The ignore feature might be your best option. It is you who can't help but diarrhea all over a thread when they see one of my posts.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056687The ignore feature might be your best option. It is you who can't help but diarrhea all over a thread when they see one my posts.

Aww, isn't that cute? He thinks I actually care about him that much!

I'm done arguing with you for the day.

Anyway, so how about that Morrow Project?

EDIT-By the way, to prevent further thread derailment, I am putting Ras Algethi on the ignore list.

I am no longer giving him the attention and validation he so desperately craves.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1056640X

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056654X

You two are like Hwang and Tigath from SR:HK. And I killed both of them and their squads because their squabble irked me. So letting Pundit decide because feuds like this should have their own thread.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1056603X

Can you do something about these two? I don't have time for RPGCodex Roqua v Bryce like BS on this forum.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1056699You two are like Hwang and Tigath from SR:HK. And I killed both of them and their squads because their squabble irked me. So letting Pundit decide because feuds like this should have their own thread.



Can you do something about these two? I don't have time for RPGCodex Roqua v Bryce like BS on this forum.

I already quit and blocked Ras Algethi, you won't see anymore bickering with him on my end.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1056678So, I wonder if the Morrow Project can be ran with other systems?

Yes, very easily. 1st-3rd ed was probably 75%+ setting with a fairly simple game system.

3rd ed added an optional skill system based on BRP. It did have a detailed combat system but comparisons to Phoenix Command are absurdly off base, there were somewhat detailed rules for burns, blood loss etc, but no more complicated than the average game with hit locations.

It did have lists of equipment, but the stats were 90% real world numbers. If your game of choice has a complete list of generic weapons (pistol, smg, rifle, rocket launcher etc) and can deal with light armored vehicles you should have little trouble converting things.


Although I am a big fan of the game, and have just about everything produced by the original publisher, I don't have the 4th edition of the rules.  

Quote from: JeremyR;1021356IIRC, in some of the later products, it actually suggests people use GURPs instead, which tells you how godawful the original system was.

While GURPS would be a solid choice for running the game, GURPS barely even existed when TMP was actively being published. GURPS arrived in 1986, the last three modules from the original publisher appeared in 1986, 1987 and 1990. There is no mention of GURPS, or suggestions for using any other system up to that point (other than the inclusion of the BRP role playing supplement).

The next module for TMP was published in the early 2000s, I'm not sure if any of the original developers had any involvement with the game by that point. By 2000s the rules would be pretty dated so I can believe that there may have been comments about using another system. I was on a TMP email list about that time, and would guess probably 1/2 of the people on that list were using some other system to play it. Not so much that the original rules were terrible, just that the hobby had evolved since 1980, and there were much better games available.

Quote from: briansommers;1056625I'm interested in this game as well

My hangup comes in the 150 year thing.

I understand that this is sci fi but what machine could keep running flawlessly for 150 years without any hickups? I mean it's ridicoulous and kills the immerson for me

I like the overall concept is very cool but I would like to experiement and see what would happen if they were in a bunker and survived. How many years would you have to stay under a bunker before the radioactive fallout subsides?

That's where I want to go with it.

Depends on the machine and how it is built. Just today we met a guy with an original still running Model A car. This car will soon be 100 years old. Also some machinery is built for long term and one would sure as hell hope that the Morrow Project bunkers were built to last. And if I recall correctly the PCs might be the only ones whos chambers kept working. Everyone else might be dead as over time things fail.

Quote from: Toadmaster;1056732The next module for TMP was published in the early 2000s, I'm not sure if any of the original developers had any involvement with the game by that point.

2003. Fall Back by John L. Duke. This was project File 011, an adventure set in Kentucky published by Chris @ timeline who had just taken over the company and revived it.  John Duke was a writer for many of the earlier modules, so there was at least one old guard that i know of with the new Timeline Ltd. company. I did an interview with Chris @GenCon 04, or Origins 04, but I can't find the Interview right now. I want to say Chris Pine, I'll look through my business card collection, I still may have his card.

Ras and Doc Sammy, stop it, both of you. Consider this a warning. I STRONGLY recommend you block each other.

I played the 2nd edition a couple of times but preferred Aftermath! .  I have fourth edition and it is much better than the other editions but is really a different game and is unfinished and has been abandoned. There is a wonderful podcast series using a cut down version of the 4th edition rules http://tomorrowsend.rpgstuff.net (http://tomorrowsend.rpgstuff.net) The earlier episodes are the best.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1056997Ras and Doc Sammy, stop it, both of you. Consider this a warning. I STRONGLY recommend you block each other.

Way ahead of you, Ras is on my ignore list.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1057122Way ahead of you, Ras is on my ignore list.

Good. Keep it that way.