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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 13, 2016, 06:59:55 PM

Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 13, 2016, 06:59:55 PM
I'm breaking my lenten Internet fast to share something.

I've said before that when Phil Barker scoffed at my dungeon as "unrealistic" and asked "what do the monsters eat, anyway" I put a McDonald's on the sixth level.

Well, getting ready for GaryCon, I FOUND that key.  It was actually the 7th level, but hey, after 41 years that's doing good.

So, here are the prices from the McDonald's just off the University of Minnesota Campus in 1974, only in copper pieces:

Hamburger     33 coppers
Cheeseburger 38
Double Hamburger  60
Double Cheese       70
Filet of Fish     39
Fries               25
Large Fries       40
Onion Rings      45
Shakes, Choc, Straw, Vanilla  39
Orca Cola  15 & 29   Without*, 29 & 58
Sprite Root beer Grape  same
Orange  20 & 39 (no, I have no idea why)
Hot Apple Pie   41


*100 XP to the first one who figures "without what" without looking it up
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: yosemitemike on February 13, 2016, 07:09:14 PM
They eat other monsters and careless adventurers.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 13, 2016, 07:21:13 PM
Is this the genesis of the "Rat on a Stick" fast food franchise module by Judges Guild way back?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Simlasa on February 13, 2016, 07:21:14 PM
Kinda reminds me of my favorite World of Warcraft dungeon that has a bar in the middle of it (and a band that plays every night if you get there on time).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 13, 2016, 07:55:02 PM
13th Age has living dungeons a la Dungeon Keeper or Overlord, which easily explains away the sheer absurdity of the whole dungeon concept in the first place.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 13, 2016, 08:17:40 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;87880413th Age has living dungeons a la Dungeon Keeper or Overlord, which easily explains away the sheer absurdity of the whole dungeon concept in the first place.

This old chestnut? Its absurd only if you dont think things through. Try again please.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: RunningLaser on February 13, 2016, 08:21:11 PM
I don't give a rat's ass about monster ecology, dungeon ecology, dungeon history.....  I don't bat an eye when a thousand year old treasure chest is opened and a viper is ready and waiting to bite a hapless adventurer inside.  I think people forget what the last letter in RPG stands for.  

That should be rule zero point one- FUCK YOU.

game on!
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Christopher Brady on February 13, 2016, 08:51:28 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;878800Kinda reminds me of my favorite World of Warcraft dungeon that has a bar in the middle of it (and a band that plays every night if you get there on time).

To be fair Blackrock Depths was a Shadow Dwarven stronghold, not really a 'classic' D&D style dungeon, where you raid commando style and find different monsters that don't normally associate with each other.

And the Grim Guzzler patrons could (and would) get pretty rowdy.  After all Phalanx the Stone Golem was needed to keep the peace.

Quote from: RunningLaser;878809I don't give a rat's ass about monster ecology, dungeon ecology, dungeon history.....  I don't bat an eye when a thousand year old treasure chest is opened and a viper is ready and waiting to bite a hapless adventurer inside.  I think people forget what the last letter in RPG stands for.  

That should be rule zero point one- FUCK YOU.

game on!

Whatever happens to the first two letters, though?  It's nice to focus on one, but it's not called a 'Game'.  It's called a 'Role Playing Game'.  Besides, your way is just ONE way to play.  Other people want more, or maybe a different sort of direction to play.

And secondly, please don't start with the 'one true way to play' crap.  We get it enough already.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: JasperAK on February 13, 2016, 09:46:45 PM
without ice
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: crkrueger on February 13, 2016, 09:54:03 PM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;878818And the Grim Guzzler patrons could (and would) get pretty rowdy.  After all Phalanx the Stone Golem was needed to keep the peace.
Oh my god, the TPKs there were crazy.  It was one of the only places in WoW where you could get EQ-like battles.  Reminded me of the Runnyeye Goblin town or Mistmoore when someone aggroed the whole castle.  Of course nothing will ever beat Lower Guk for sheer crazyiness.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Shipyard Locked on February 13, 2016, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;878835Of course nothing will ever beat Lower Guk for sheer crazyiness.

I never got to experience Lower Guk, but my brothers still speak of it to each other with smirks of wistful horror.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: crkrueger on February 13, 2016, 10:11:32 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;878837I never got to experience Lower Guk, but my brothers still speak of it to each other with smirks of wistful horror.

It was glorious.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 13, 2016, 10:49:13 PM
Quote from: JasperAK;878834without ice

Good guess, but nope.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Paraguybrarian on February 14, 2016, 01:09:33 AM
With/without a cup? (BYO)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Ravenswing on February 14, 2016, 06:29:08 AM
Without sugar, of course.  Those monsters don't get good dental care down on the 7th level.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: ArrozConLeche on February 14, 2016, 08:36:12 AM
Without cocaine?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Rincewind1 on February 14, 2016, 08:42:04 AM
Are we sharing anecdotes for when we were first GMing for our friends as 12 years olds? Because I have some great ones in this spirit.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 14, 2016, 09:13:35 AM
The Crushed setting booklet for 3e played with that.

What do the monsters eat? Adventurers. In fact adventurers are apparently an important part of the food chain in that setting as they are force raise-deaded each time they die.

Keep on the Borderland mentions some of the cavern inhabitants hunting game or travellers.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 14, 2016, 12:13:52 PM
Quote from: Omega;878808This old chestnut? Its absurd only if you dont think things through. Try again please.
Living dungeons are, by far, the least absurd explanation for the annoying triviality that is monster ecology. If we cared about the ecology we wouldn't be killing everything that moves. Then again my approach to the modern fantasy genre is to treat everything as operating by Discworld logic rather than lame Tolkien rip-off. Fantasy takes itself way too seriously.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: rawma on February 14, 2016, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;878796I'm breaking my lenten Internet fast to share something.

Oh, thanks; I thought Lent had ended rather early.

The only reason for players to worry about what the monsters eat is if they plan to use the information in an adventuring plan, like posing as the pizza delivery guy to get the drop on some monster. Otherwise, it's just a game.

QuoteOrca Cola  15 & 29   Without*, 29 & 58

Quote*100 XP to the first one who figures "without what" without looking it up

I was pretty sure that
Spoiler
it was a Bored of the Rings reference
but I had to look up the specifics so no XP for me.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: GeekEclectic on February 14, 2016, 04:55:28 PM
Without eyes?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 14, 2016, 04:56:54 PM
Quote from: Paraguybrarian;878851With/without a cup? (BYO)

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;878875Without cocaine?

Nope, and nope.

Sigh.  So sad to see the young are no longer educated in the classics.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 14, 2016, 04:57:24 PM
Quote from: GeekEclectic;878935Without eyes?

Closer, but nope.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Elfdart on February 14, 2016, 06:53:08 PM
Without SPAM you silly whipper-snappers!
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: GameDaddy on February 14, 2016, 07:06:22 PM
Orcs, of course, without Cola. an Orc Burger would be much better though.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 14, 2016, 10:35:27 PM
Quote from: GameDaddy;878977Orcs, of course, without Cola. an Orc Burger would be much better though.

Warmer...
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Hrugga on February 14, 2016, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;878997Warmer...
Without Ice...???
H:0)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Hrugga on February 14, 2016, 10:41:45 PM
Duh!!!! Sorry, I was a bit behind...

H;0)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Willie the Duck on February 14, 2016, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;878796*100 XP to the first one who figures "without what" without looking it up

A shot of flavored syrup, soda fountain style?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: yosemitemike on February 14, 2016, 11:12:00 PM
Blood Bowl has some weird humor but it has been forever since I read any of it.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: estar on February 14, 2016, 11:38:18 PM
This was found hanging on a deep wood tavern from a game I was in last year.

QuoteHalfing Hash for 5
Elf Stoo for 7
Manburger for 9
Wench Fries for 4
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Kyle Aaron on February 14, 2016, 11:54:09 PM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;878818Whatever happens to the first two letters, though?  It's nice to focus on one, but it's not called a 'Game'.  It's called a 'Role Playing Game'.  Besides, your way is just ONE way to play.  Other people want more, or maybe a different sort of direction to play.
Yes but those people are wrong.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Paraguybrarian on February 15, 2016, 10:07:35 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;878997Warmer...

Oh dear god, if this is some kind of "dad joke" just stop.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: trechriron on February 15, 2016, 02:48:14 PM
Without...

REFILLS!

I think.

It might be without "Orc Sauce" but that just gets... perverted.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 15, 2016, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;879006Yes but those people are wrong.

Sorry to break it for you, but they're exactly as right as you are:). As long as they're doing that on their tables, and not on yours, they can have all the setting detail in the world.
Of course, if you ever ended on one such table, you wouldn't fit the group and would have to be ditched, and vice versa with those people and your table;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 15, 2016, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;878796I've said before that when Phil Barker scoffed at my dungeon as "unrealistic" and asked "what do the monsters eat, anyway" I put a McDonald's on the sixth level.

Well, getting ready for GaryCon, I FOUND that key.  It was actually the 7th level, but hey, after 41 years that's doing good.

So, here are the prices from the McDonald's just off the University of Minnesota Campus in 1974, only in copper pieces:

Hamburger     33 coppers
Cheeseburger 38
Double Hamburger  60
Double Cheese       70
Filet of Fish     39
Fries               25
Large Fries       40
Onion Rings      45
Shakes, Choc, Straw, Vanilla  39
Orca Cola  15 & 29   Without*, 29 & 58
Sprite Root beer Grape  same
Orange  20 & 39 (no, I have no idea why)
Hot Apple Pie   41


*100 XP to the first one who figures "without what" without looking it up

Wow, no growth or change in 40+ years. That's quite an achievement in stagnation.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Christopher Brady on February 15, 2016, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879133Sorry to break it for you, but they're exactly as right as you are:). As long as they're doing that on their tables, and not on yours, they can have all the setting detail in the world.
Of course, if you ever ended on one such table, you wouldn't fit the group and would have to be ditched, and vice versa with those people and your table;).

I was hoping he was being facetious.  Cuz I'm sick of the constant grognard passive aggressive "YER DOIN' IT WRONG, YOUNG PUNKS!" we constantly get here whenever D&D gets brought up.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 15, 2016, 05:20:46 PM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;879140I was hoping he was being facetious.  Cuz I'm sick of the constant grognard passive aggressive "YER DOIN' IT WRONG, YOUNG PUNKS!" we constantly get here whenever D&D gets brought up.

   I've more or less accepted it and decided to leave the game to the OSR and other various Gygax-cultists. :)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: kosmos1214 on February 15, 2016, 05:44:23 PM
Quote from: Rincewind1;878877Are we sharing anecdotes for when we were first GMing for our friends as 12 years olds? Because I have some great ones in this spirit.

sounds like a good topic idea to me
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 15, 2016, 06:32:36 PM
How the fuck did a dumb story about me flipping off Phil Barker as a college sophomore turn into an argument over "ONE TRUE WAY TO PLAY?"
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 15, 2016, 06:36:27 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879159How the fuck did a dumb story about me flipping off Phil Barker as a college sophomore turn into an argument over "ONE TRUE WAY TO PLAY?"

The personality that you show online, maybe? :idunno:
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 15, 2016, 06:37:30 PM
"Frito stared thoughtfully into the sediment of fish hooks and the frothy head of ground glass on his Orca-Cola."
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 15, 2016, 06:46:48 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879159How the fuck did a dumb story about me flipping off Phil Barker as a college sophomore turn into an argument over "ONE TRUE WAY TO PLAY?"

Because every time someone reminisces about their early RPGing and someone else mentions their way - some dim-bulb has to harp in about how that person or both persons was playing it wrong and there is only "one true way." Even when said way is a-lot like their way.

Because every time someone reminisces about their early RPGing someone else has to decry it as "the hated one true way oppressors!" even when no such thing was said.

Because the OSR was apparently printed with magic electronic stupid ink that saps the intelligence of anyone reading it.

What else is new...
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 15, 2016, 06:47:49 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879162"Frito stared thoughtfully into the sediment of fish hooks and the frothy head of ground glass on his Orca-Cola."
Hey man. Some of us cannot quote verbatim every line of every book we read back in high school. I read Bored of the Rings over 40 years ago. I'm sure I've also forgotten most of the people in my homeroom and a few Monty Python quotes in the intervening decades. :)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 15, 2016, 06:52:27 PM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;879140I was hoping he was being facetious.  Cuz I'm sick of the constant grognard passive aggressive "YER DOIN' IT WRONG, YOUNG PUNKS!" we constantly get here whenever D&D gets brought up.
It takes more than that to get me riled up. And of course, if we're going to spew vitriol, it's hard to out-spew me, as you yourself might have felt a couple times:).

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879159How the fuck did a dumb story about me flipping off Phil Barker as a college sophomore turn into an argument over "ONE TRUE WAY TO PLAY?"
It's the nature of the beast called Internet that we can't let other people playing it wrong in their living rooms, Starbucks, kitchens, gaming shops, basements or whatever other venues they choose, so anything that shows disagreement with the Right Way should be immediately corrected;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Spinachcat on February 15, 2016, 06:58:34 PM
There is ONLY one way to play RPGs!

With dice! :)


Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879159How the fuck did a dumb story about me flipping off Phil Barker as a college sophomore turn into an argument over "ONE TRUE WAY TO PLAY?"

How? You posted it online! That's the original sin right there! :)

I liked the story. I was always a fan of Judges Guild's Rat on a Stick (even made them several times too!). IIRC, Wizardry 4 had a restaurant in the dungeon so the idea was certainly in the mindspace for early RPGers.

On the subject of what monsters' eat, please tell us how much Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax concerned themselves with ecology in their games?

I've read what Gary said in the 1e DMG, but how did his thoughts on ecology play out at the table?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 15, 2016, 07:01:00 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;879180There is ONLY one way to play RPGs!

With dice! :)
Well there is Amber. I understand that some people around here claim that is an RPG. ;)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 15, 2016, 07:03:16 PM
Quote from: Bren;879183Well there is Amber. I understand that some people around here claim that is an RPG. ;)

You sure it's not a dirty story game:p?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 15, 2016, 07:10:54 PM
Quote from: Bren;879169Hey man. Some of us cannot quote verbatim every line of every book we read back in high school. I read Bored of the Rings over 40 years ago. I'm sure I've also forgotten most of the people in my homeroom and a few Monty Python quotes in the intervening decades. :)

Well, that certainly isn't MY problem.

:D
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: David Johansen on February 15, 2016, 09:57:38 PM
There was an old rogue-like called Moria where the only food you could buy was from The Comandant's Deep Fried Lizard parts and came in red and white striped buckets.

I like worked out ecologies and lower key fantasy elements in my games.  I mean, I get that other people like gonzo but I can't ever separate gonzo from silly.  Okay, I can't separate grimdark from silly either and I always run Warhammer rpgs as pure slapstick.  But I like little nods like raised bed gardens in high mountain meadows that provide food stuffs for dwarven realms or orc slave farms in the marshes based on the Aztec ones where they pile up the dirt right on top of the swamp and plant their crops.

And orc raiders always carry off the sheep and cattle that they don't eat while besieging the village or the farm.

I don't run every game that way.  The D&D I run on Saturdays for the teenagers is pure improve with a healthy dose of silly.  But even then I try to put in food and water supplies.  And bread stone of course.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: crkrueger on February 15, 2016, 10:12:59 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;879142I've more or less accepted it and decided to leave the game to the OSR and other various Gygax-cultists. :)

Aw, how sweet, another drive-by against the Gygax-cultists in your head.

Kinda like here:
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;876477Champions may be a bit too new-school and storygamey for most of the crowd here ;)
Where you can't even announce a new game without letting everyone know how much you don't like this place.

And yet you're here. Again. And Again. And Again. While always letting us know you'd apparently rather not be.

{Insert Catholic Self-Loathing and Masochist Joke Here}

Oh wait, forgot the ;)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Kyle Aaron on February 15, 2016, 10:14:15 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879133Sorry to break it for you, but they're exactly as right as you are:).
No. They are objectively wrong. I make an argument from my authority: mine.

Quote from: BrenWell there is Amber. I understand that some people around here claim that is an RPG.
They are wrong, too. But everyone has to fully indulge their pretentious thespy deviancies from time to time, to avoid having them spread into their true gaming experience.

Gaming is serious fucking business. This is why some of you cannot bear mockery or get humour. Of course, that's mostly because you're American, but...
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: crkrueger on February 15, 2016, 10:15:27 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879162"Frito stared thoughtfully into the sediment of fish hooks and the frothy head of ground glass on his Orca-Cola."

I didn't know which one to go with.  The head I assumed would be part of the Cola, so the fish hooks are probably the option.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: crkrueger on February 15, 2016, 10:19:56 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879133Sorry to break it for you, but they're exactly as right as you are:). As long as they're doing that on their tables, and not on yours, they can have all the setting detail in the world.
Of course, if you ever ended on one such table, you wouldn't fit the group and would have to be ditched, and vice versa with those people and your table;).

Quote from: Christopher Brady;879140I was hoping he was being facetious.

Brady and AsenRG, you guys might not know, but Kyle is always facetious about gaming.  Or does that mean he can't be facetious because he doesn't think gaming is serious enough to be facetious about.  Whichever.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 15, 2016, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;879229This is why some of you cannot bear mockery or get humour. Of course, that's mostly because you're American, but...
Well sure. As Americans we do have a hard time with mockery and humor. We are serious people who are up to the serious business of saving the world from itself and ensuring that everyone on the globe has access to McDonalds, Disney princesses, Hollywood movies, and Kentucky Fried Chicken. Now if we still lived back in the old country with all it's quaint and silly customs or if we were from upside down land where you folks have so much more practice at being mocked than we would undoubtedly get more of this strange thing you call "humour."
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: JasperAK on February 15, 2016, 10:32:21 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;879180There is ONLY one way to play RPGs!

With dice! :)


http://geekandsundry.com/tabletop-dread-part-1/ (http://geekandsundry.com/tabletop-dread-part-1/) Hehehehe

If this didn't show me everything I needed to know about storygames...
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: crkrueger on February 15, 2016, 10:44:18 PM
Quote from: JasperAK;879237http://geekandsundry.com/tabletop-dread-part-1/ (http://geekandsundry.com/tabletop-dread-part-1/) Hehehehe

If this didn't show me everything I needed to know about storygames...

It's like pretty much every storytelling game ever...
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: JasperAK on February 15, 2016, 11:15:37 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;879242It's like pretty much every storytelling game ever...
  • Ridiculous amount of fun as a party or convention one-shot.
  • Absolutely useless for anything you want a Role-Playing Game for.

And I saw Wil's post for Fiasco as well. You are absolutely right. Great fun but I'm not sure if 'game' is appropriate. Talk about 'Wil-may-I'...
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 16, 2016, 05:27:59 AM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;879229No. They are objectively wrong. I make an argument from my authority: mine.
You have exactly zero authority=>your argument is unfounded=>your argument is irrelevant.

Quote from: CRKrueger;879232Brady and AsenRG, you guys might not know, but Kyle is always facetious about gaming.  Or does that mean he can't be facetious because he doesn't think gaming is serious enough to be facetious about.  Whichever.
I wasn't keeping tabs on him, so no, I didn't know. Thanks for the warning, though it seems quite clear from his latest post:)!
Of course, I can reply in tone by being just as facetious. It would work until I get bored;). Admittedly, that point is quickly approaching, because his facetiousness fails to entertain, and facetious and boring is just a total communication botch.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 16, 2016, 05:36:14 AM
Quote from: JasperAK;879237http://geekandsundry.com/tabletop-dread-part-1/ (http://geekandsundry.com/tabletop-dread-part-1/) Hehehehe

If this didn't show me everything I needed to know about storygames...

"For much of the 40 years of RPG history, the only game you could play was D&D."

Fuck you, you know-nothing hack! This schlub is not knowledgeable enough to talk about RPGs.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Willie the Duck on February 16, 2016, 07:35:13 AM
Quote from: JasperAK;879248And I saw Wil's post for Fiasco as well. You are absolutely right. Great fun but I'm not sure if 'game' is appropriate. Talk about 'Wil-may-I'...

To be fair, that absolutely is a game by most definitions. Of course, so is charades or hopscotch, and those aren't very close to TTRPGs either.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 16, 2016, 09:50:31 AM
Quote from: jeff37923;879303"For much of the 40 years of RPG history, the only game you could play was D&D."

Fuck you, you know-nothing hack! This schlub is not knowledgeable enough to talk about RPGs.

Where is this particular pearl from:)?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 16, 2016, 11:10:47 AM
Quote from: AsenRG;879326Where is this particular pearl from:)?

The first sentence spoken by Wil Wheaton on the episode of Geek & Sundry where they talk about Dread. Sorry, but if you do not even know the basic history of RPGs, then I do not want to listen to you talk about them.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Shipyard Locked on February 16, 2016, 01:39:42 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;879330The first sentence spoken by Wil Wheaton on the episode of Geek & Sundry where they talk about Dread. Sorry, but if you do not even know the basic history of RPGs, then I do not want to listen to you talk about them.

One of many examples of Wheaton's poor judgement. Oh well, at least he was genuinely entertaining in those D&D games he played with the Penny Arcade crew.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 16, 2016, 01:59:54 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;879330The first sentence spoken by Wil Wheaton on the episode of Geek & Sundry where they talk about Dread. Sorry, but if you do not even know the basic history of RPGs, then I do not want to listen to you talk about them.

You watch "Geek and Sundry"? That surprises me more than someone getting the history of RPGs wrong:).

And yes, it made me laugh, too, but I guess that's mission accomplished for such a show;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: trechriron on February 16, 2016, 04:20:30 PM
So... so...  was the answer REFILLS?

Did I get the XP?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: D-503 on February 16, 2016, 04:50:46 PM
You know, my group has a regular S&W game with rotating GMs, and every one of us gives some thought to how their scenario makes internal sense while stilll keeping them fantastic or weird according to taste.

Because we're not 13 years' old and because we understand that RP and G are both important.

Otherwise I'd play a fucking computer game.

I'm of course being unfair to 13 year olds, since that's about when I started playing or a bit younger and my group then already gave a shit about the adventure making some kind of vague sense. It's really not that hard to manage.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: D-503 on February 16, 2016, 04:54:23 PM
Also, I've no strong feelings on Tekumel, but Barker was right.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 16, 2016, 05:07:22 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879374You watch "Geek and Sundry"? That surprises me more than someone getting the history of RPGs wrong:).

And yes, it made me laugh, too, but I guess that's mission accomplished for such a show;).

Only that one time. I doubt I ever will again. JasperAK had it linked, so I thought, "How bad could it be?"

Quote from: JasperAK;879237http://geekandsundry.com/tabletop-dread-part-1/ (http://geekandsundry.com/tabletop-dread-part-1/) Hehehehe

If this didn't show me everything I needed to know about storygames...
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 16, 2016, 05:25:58 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;879434Only that one time. I doubt I ever will again. JasperAK had it linked, so I thought, "How bad could it be?"

Well, the link explains a lot:). I opened it, too, but the sound was muted, so I closed it after seeing it's about videos.

And I laughed because the first editions of five games in my Top 10 have been devised after OD&D, but before I was born;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 16, 2016, 11:10:45 PM
* looks around thread *

Hmmm... looks like it's time for Old Yeller to talk to the shotgun.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 16, 2016, 11:32:38 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879491* looks around thread *

Hmmm... looks like it's time for Old Yeller to talk to the shotgun.

Now, now. You don't have to do that to yourself.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 17, 2016, 05:13:17 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879491* looks around thread *

Hmmm... looks like it's time for Old Yeller to talk to the shotgun.

Quote from: jeff37923;879493Now, now. You don't have to do that to yourself.

I doubt Gronan means himself, he's not that old and I don't think he has yelled at anybody in this thread;). OTOH, some people in the same thread might need help with improving themselves, via a shotgun rammed up th...

Ahem, let's just say I'm glad to be the in-all-likelihood-youngest poster in this thread:D!
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 17, 2016, 09:56:54 AM
Actually I was thinking of the whole thread.

How a sophomoric joke and some slightly interesting historical data about the prices at McDonalds' in 1974 turned into a pissing contest over "the right way to game" is beyond me.

If Big Purple needs to get over itself, this place needs a sense of humor.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 17, 2016, 10:58:02 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879558Actually I was thinking of the whole thread.

How a sophomoric joke and some slightly interesting historical data about the prices at McDonalds' in 1974 turned into a pissing contest over "the right way to game" is beyond me.

If Big Purple needs to get over itself, this place needs a sense of humor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQag6Efg7oY

Also, both sites tend to blow things out of proportion, they just pick different things and blow in different directions. But the blowing is a constant;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Naburimannu on February 17, 2016, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879558Actually I was thinking of the whole thread.

How a sophomoric joke and some slightly interesting historical data about the prices at McDonalds' in 1974 turned into a pissing contest over "the right way to game" is beyond me.

If Big Purple needs to get over itself, this place needs a sense of humor.

That you intended humor wasn't at all clear. The style you adopted gets used non-ironically by some people trying to sell to the OSR community.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: trechriron on February 17, 2016, 12:20:15 PM
so... ummm... It's just really nagging at me. You know. The answer to "without". It's like the puzzle that won't get out of my head.

So... did I guess it right? Did I?  REFILLS?!?!?!?  It's got to be REFILLS!!!!

100xp? for me?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Shipyard Locked on February 17, 2016, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879572Also, both sites tend to blow things out of proportion, they just pick different things and blow in different directions. But the blowing is a constant;).

Well, that and at the end of any given 'encounter' we are all still standing but half of the people over there have been banned. ;)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Doom on February 17, 2016, 12:28:54 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879558Actually I was thinking of the whole thread.

How a sophomoric joke and some slightly interesting historical data about the prices at McDonalds' in 1974 turned into a pissing contest over "the right way to game" is beyond me.

If Big Purple needs to get over itself, this place needs a sense of humor.


Hey, I certainly appreciated the old McDonald's prices. I try to convince people inflation is far more than the 1.5% the government says it is, and people call me a nut...because everyone forgets what prices used to be.

I remember in the 80s (when I was in grad school), I got 6 tacos at Taco Bell for two bucks, and I ate there regularly...33 cents a taco then. Now, they sell them for what, $1.10? That's not a 1.5% compounded return...and the meatlike substance they use now is nothing like what it used to be.

Anyone else even remember Subway's "$5 Footlong" from a few years ago. Now they're selling "$6 Footlong February" as a special deal.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 17, 2016, 12:29:38 PM
Quote from: Naburimannu;879575That you intended humor wasn't at all clear. The style you adopted gets used non-ironically by some people trying to sell to the OSR community.
Hint: OSR games seldom sell because of those people, whatever they might think:).

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;879584Well, that and at the end of any given 'encounter' we are all still standing but half of the people over there have been banned. ;)
You're probably thinking of Tangency. That, or I have an insanely high level after dodging a ban in that number of encounters;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: RunningLaser on February 17, 2016, 12:46:06 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879558Actually I was thinking of the whole thread.

How a sophomoric joke and some slightly interesting historical data about the prices at McDonalds' in 1974 turned into a pissing contest over "the right way to game" is beyond me.

If Big Purple needs to get over itself, this place needs a sense of humor.


I fired the first shot there, so my apologies for fucking your thread, and apologies to others.

If you can keep going with the people who are actually contributing and asking about what you originally intended, that'd be great.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: ArrozConLeche on February 17, 2016, 01:07:15 PM
^ I think you should be banned for showing such a degree of maturity and class. This goes completely against the spirit of this forum.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Christopher Brady on February 17, 2016, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879558Actually I was thinking of the whole thread.

How a sophomoric joke and some slightly interesting historical data about the prices at McDonalds' in 1974 turned into a pissing contest over "the right way to game" is beyond me.

Oh, that's easy, it's what a lot of people assume you always do.  Every goddamned thread that deals with D&D, you're always coming in with "Back in MY day, we did it THIS way.  I have no idea what YOUR problem is."  Which comes off as a passive aggressive attempt at One True Wayism.  And adding 'Fuck You' in the title this time doesn't help much either.

Look, we GET IT. Your geek cred is always going to be higher than ours because you were there, at Gygax's knee, receiving the holy gospel of D&D from the source.

Sadly, Buttercup, times have changed, you've changed, the hobby has changed and your way ain't the only way to play in town.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: ArrozConLeche on February 17, 2016, 01:30:05 PM
LEAVE GRONAN ALONE!! :D

(https://whybecausescience.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/leave-britney-alone.jpg)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Chainsaw on February 17, 2016, 05:43:36 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;878796I've said before that when Phil Barker scoffed at my dungeon as "unrealistic" and asked "what do the monsters eat, anyway"
I don't care who you are, you get the penalty box for asking. Do not collect $200. Lighten up, Francis.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 17, 2016, 06:40:39 PM
:popcorn:
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 17, 2016, 06:53:19 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879659:popcorn:
I guess you didn't give up popcorn for Lent either? ;)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: kosmos1214 on February 17, 2016, 09:39:31 PM
Quote from: Doom;879586Hey, I certainly appreciated the old McDonald's prices. I try to convince people inflation is far more than the 1.5% the government says it is, and people call me a nut...because everyone forgets what prices used to be.

I remember in the 80s (when I was in grad school), I got 6 tacos at Taco Bell for two bucks, and I ate there regularly...33 cents a taco then. Now, they sell them for what, $1.10? That's not a 1.5% compounded return...and the meatlike substance they use now is nothing like what it used to be.

Anyone else even remember Subway's "$5 Footlong" from a few years ago. Now they're selling "$6 Footlong February" as a special deal.
my dad remembers going to dairy queen and getting a burger fry's and a med pop for 83 cents i cant remember what year off the top of my head
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;879604^ I think you should be banned for showing such a degree of maturity and class. This goes completely against the spirit of this forum.
ahhahhahahahahah
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 17, 2016, 10:03:59 PM
Quote from: Bren;879663I guess you didn't give up popcorn for Lent either? ;)

No, but I did give up beer.

And I've had to modify my "internet fast" into a "Facebook fast"; sadly, where I live the Internet is the only place I can talk about my interests with other people who share them, and not sharing what's important to me is not good for my mental health.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Shipyard Locked on February 17, 2016, 10:13:15 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879694sadly, where I live the Internet is the only place I can talk about my interests with other people who share them, and not sharing what's important to me is not good for my mental health.

Glad to be of service.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 17, 2016, 10:22:11 PM
Quote from: RunningLaser;879597I fired the first shot there, so my apologies for fucking your thread, and apologies to others.

* shrug * No worries.

Really, I just thought people would find a 40+ year old McDonald's price list mildly interesting.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 17, 2016, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879694No, but I did give up beer.
Well that is more of a sacrifice than popcorn. Glad you ended up staying around. In this case your therapy is our gain.  ;)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 17, 2016, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: Naburimannu;879575That you intended humor wasn't at all clear. The style you adopted gets used non-ironically by some people trying to sell to the OSR community.

Quite truthfully, I didn't think it was actually necessary to explain that a McDonald's on the seventh level of the dungeon was a piss-take.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 17, 2016, 10:26:35 PM
Quote from: Doom;879586Hey, I certainly appreciated the old McDonald's prices. I try to convince people inflation is far more than the 1.5% the government says it is, and people call me a nut...because everyone forgets what prices used to be.

Of course, it's fun when it works the other way, too.

Model railroaders like to bitch that prices are too high... $250 for a model locomotive that a) in a photograph against a neutral background cannot be told from a real one b) has a computer chip inside for wireless control of speed and direction and c) has 32-bit digital sound.

Then I dig out my 1956 American Flyer Trains catalog, point at the $25 locomotive, and advance the price 60 years.

Guess what the price comes VERY close to? :D
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 17, 2016, 10:27:16 PM
Quote from: Doom;879586Hey, I certainly appreciated the old McDonald's prices. I try to convince people inflation is far more than the 1.5% the government says it is, and people call me a nut...because everyone forgets what prices used to be.

I remember in the 80s (when I was in grad school), I got 6 tacos at Taco Bell for two bucks, and I ate there regularly...33 cents a taco then. Now, they sell them for what, $1.10? That's not a 1.5% compounded return...and the meatlike substance they use now is nothing like what it used to be.

Anyone else even remember Subway's "$5 Footlong" from a few years ago. Now they're selling "$6 Footlong February" as a special deal.

Comic books have gone from 25c to what now? 2.50$, paperbacks have gone from 1-2$ up to what now? 5-10$? (Quick check. 1985 book 2.50$. 2001 book 5.$)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 17, 2016, 10:35:23 PM
Quote from: Omega;879708Comic books have gone from 25c to what now? 2.50$, paperbacks have gone from 1-2$ up to what now? 5-10$? (Quick check. 1985 book 2.50$. 2001 book 5.$)

I just finished rereading KING KULL in the old 70s Lancer edition.  89 cents.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 17, 2016, 10:39:01 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879707Of course, it's fun when it works the other way, too.

Model railroaders like to bitch that prices are too high... $250 for a model locomotive that a) in a photograph against a neutral background cannot be told from a real one b) has a computer chip inside for wireless control of speed and direction and c) has 32-bit digital sound.

Then I dig out my 1956 American Flyer Trains catalog, point at the $25 locomotive, and advance the price 60 years.

Guess what the price comes VERY close to? :D

Off topic.

But how much would those model trains cost without all the extra gadgets? Done via older methods? Its akin to comparing OD&D which was about 5$ to 5e which is 150$ (75$ with pre-orders or discounts) (not counting dice.)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 17, 2016, 10:56:00 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879711I just finished rereading KING KULL in the old 70s Lancer edition.  89 cents.

Thats hilarious as the 1985 book I was noting was RED SONJA. :cool:

Iron Dragon novel (the one based on the fantasy train game by Tom Wham from Mayfair) from 95 is 5$. (He also wrote probably half the novel even though Rose Estes is the only one credited.) Guess book prices are too variable to make a good example.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 17, 2016, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879711I just finished rereading KING KULL in the old 70s Lancer edition.  89 cents.
My 1969 Lancer edition down on the basement shelf was 75 cents.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: rawma on February 18, 2016, 12:23:12 AM
Quote from: Doom;879586Hey, I certainly appreciated the old McDonald's prices. I try to convince people inflation is far more than the 1.5% the government says it is, and people call me a nut...because everyone forgets what prices used to be.

Who is telling you 1.5%? The Bureau of Labor Statistics says (http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2014/article/one-hundred-years-of-price-change-the-consumer-price-index-and-the-american-inflation-experience.htm) the annualized increase in the Consumer Price Index was around 3% between 1983 and 2013, and much higher from 1968 to 1983. That's still a bit less than 0.33 to 1.10, but not a lot different. I can't speak to the change in quality of Taco Bell food (can it really have gotten lower?) but it does seem that the standard amounts are larger than they used to be (soda especially, but I remember when the Quarter Pounder was unusually large).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 18, 2016, 12:48:11 AM
Quote from: rawma;879748...but it does seem that the standard amounts are larger than they used to be (soda especially, but I remember when the Quarter Pounder was unusually large).
The portions aren't larger. The universe is expanding. Just look at the size of the patrons.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Spinachcat on February 18, 2016, 02:11:32 AM
GRONAN! Back on topic!

Damn, beer withdrawal is bad for you!

How much did Gygax and Arneson focus on dungeon ecology in actual play?

How "jokey" were elements in their campaign? Did they run separate "serious" games vs. more "silly" campaigns?

What is your personal style regarding ecology and has it changed over the years?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: ArrozConLeche on February 18, 2016, 09:05:53 AM
I always thought that T&T was the one with the wacky humor.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 18, 2016, 09:12:19 AM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;879804I always thought that T&T was the one with the wacky humor.

Not in my copy or any of the solos I saw. Its got some humorous moments here and there. But overall the tone is serious. Or as serious as a freewheeling fantasy RPG gets.

Oddball was the Grimtooth series which was system neutral last I knew?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 18, 2016, 09:52:06 AM
Quote from: Omega;879712Off topic.

But how much would those model trains cost without all the extra gadgets? Done via older methods? Its akin to comparing OD&D which was about 5$ to 5e which is 150$ (75$ with pre-orders or discounts) (not counting dice.)

About $100 to $150, and yes they're available.

My point is that a $25 engine from 1956 brought forward to 2016 is about $225 to $250 in current money, and the newer engine is MUCH better quality than the old one.  Objectively, as in "looks more like the real thing," "better quality motor and gearing," etc.

A lot of stuff is actually cheaper than it would be if you just adjusted 1956 prices for inflation.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 18, 2016, 09:54:51 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;879759GRONAN! Back on topic!

Damn, beer withdrawal is bad for you!

How much did Gygax and Arneson focus on dungeon ecology in actual play?

How "jokey" were elements in their campaign? Did they run separate "serious" games vs. more "silly" campaigns?

What is your personal style regarding ecology and has it changed over the years?

Virtually not at all.  As I've said before, BLACKMOOR and GREYHAWK both had huge amounts of piss take in them.  The first temple in GREYHAWK to get a name was the one I dubbed "First Church of Crom, Scientist."  There might be some ecology elements if it made for a cool aspect of play, but otherwise not.

Play was serious but characterization was not.  Much like having a Napoleonic miniatures army commanded by General Sir Hugh Jarce, but being so good at the game you win all the time.

More later.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: ArrozConLeche on February 18, 2016, 10:40:25 AM
Quote from: Omega;879806Not in my copy or any of the solos I saw. Its got some humorous moments here and there. But overall the tone is serious. Or as serious as a freewheeling fantasy RPG gets.

Oddball was the Grimtooth series which was system neutral last I knew?

OK, I'm mostly going by second hand accounts, and also by what I saw of the spell list:

http://www.freedungeons.com/rules/#spellbook

QuoteDetect Magic (0)   Detects good and bad magic.
Lock Tight (1)   Locks any door for 3 turns.
Knock Knock (2)   Unlocks locked doors.
Will-o-the-wisp (1)   Lights up finger or staff in lieu of a torch. About 1 candlepower. Lasts 1 turn.
Oh There It Is (4)   Usually detects concealed or invisible things or doors by surrounding them with a purple glow that slowly fades.
Take That, You Fiend (6)   Uses IQ as weapon, inflicting hits equal to caster's IQ. Must be directed at an individual foe. No effect on inanimate objects.
Vorpal Blade (5)   Doubles die roll for swords or daggers for one subsequent combat round.
Oh-Go-Away (5)   Combines total of caster's IQ, LK and CHR to drive away foes with a lower Monster Rating or equivalent attribute total. If spell fails, monster chases magic-user to the exclusion of his or her comrades.

I kinda like it to be honest.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 18, 2016, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: Chainsaw;879647I don't care who you are, you get the penalty box for asking. Do not collect $200. Lighten up, Francis.
Nope. If Phil Barker asks, you're going to answer!
And you get a penalty box for thinking yourself above him.

Note that Gronan did answer, too, just in his own way;).

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;879813OK, I'm mostly going by second hand accounts, and also by what I saw of the spell list:

http://www.freedungeons.com/rules/#spellbook

I kinda like it to be honest.
Yeah, it's a well-thought, fun list:)!

Also, there are games that pay attention to such details, and then there are those other games;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 18, 2016, 03:05:23 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879823And you get a penalty box for thinking yourself above him.


You know, just because someone says that they suckled at the teats of Gygax and Arneson when the hobby was in its infancy, only gives their words more weight if you believe that it justifies their obnoxious elitism.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Chainsaw on February 18, 2016, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879823Nope. If Phil Barker asks, you're going to answer!
And you get a penalty box for thinking yourself above him.
No offense man, but I give zero shits about Barker and his amazingly detailed setting that I doubt very many referees ever actually ran then and almost no one runs now. :)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Spinachcat on February 18, 2016, 08:39:15 PM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;879804I always thought that T&T was the one with the wacky humor.

It can be. The spell list has wacky names, but that's the scope of the wacky in the book. The adventures and combat are very deadly so its a strange combo.

I've run T&T with groups who had to change the spell names to take the game seriously and that was fun too.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Kyle Aaron on February 18, 2016, 09:49:55 PM
Quote from: Chainsaw;879852No offense man, but I give zero shits about Barker and his amazingly detailed setting that I doubt very many referees ever actually ran then and almost no one runs now. :)
Yeah, but at least it gave Pundit something to write a more readable clone of.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 18, 2016, 11:12:12 PM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;879813OK, I'm mostly going by second hand accounts, and also by what I saw of the spell list:

I kinda like it to be honest.

Yep. The spells have alot of goofy names. But goofy names does not a goofy game make. And thats about all of the oddball in the book really. Everything else reads like BX or AD&D textbooks overall.

The solos, especially the later ones apparently, have jokes and humour scattered about. But none I have seen were wall to wall or themed goofball.

06 Weirdworld by Keith Abbott, and 15 Blue Frog Tavern by James Wilson are the only two I can think of for really odd elements.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 19, 2016, 04:50:00 AM
Quote from: jeff37923;879841You know, just because someone says that they suckled at the teats of Gygax and Arneson when the hobby was in its infancy, only gives their words more weight if you believe that it justifies their obnoxious elitism.
It does, if I agree with him:p!
I mean, what other justification do you want, or expect, in a thread created as a joke:D?

Quote from: Chainsaw;879852No offense man, but I give zero shits about Barker and his amazingly detailed setting that I doubt very many referees ever actually ran then and almost no one runs now. :)
Well, that is your problem, not MAR Barker's;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Willie the Duck on February 19, 2016, 07:38:37 AM
Quote from: AsenRG;879962Well, that is your problem, not MAR Barker's;).

In deed. Who MAR Barker was and what he did is virtually irrelevant to the original point. Gronan made a dungeon. Someone pointed out that the denizens had nothing to eat. He put in a restaurant. Isn't it hilarious? BTW, aren't these 1970s fast food prices hilarious? Pretty straightforward.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: JasperAK on February 19, 2016, 09:12:44 AM
I'm still waiting to find out what 'without' references.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: JasperAK;879992I'm still waiting to find out what 'without' references.

See Post 42.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 10:02:43 AM
Quote from: Willie the Duck;879976In deed. Who MAR Barker was and what he did is virtually irrelevant to the original point. Gronan made a dungeon. Someone pointed out that the denizens had nothing to eat. He put in a restaurant. Isn't it hilarious? BTW, aren't these 1970s fast food prices hilarious? Pretty straightforward.

I know, right?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 10:03:20 AM
Quote from: AsenRG;879962It does, if I agree with him:p!
I mean, what other justification do you want, or expect, in a thread created as a joke:D?

Hush, you and your "having a sense of proportion".
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 19, 2016, 10:31:42 AM
Quote from: Willie the Duck;879976In deed. Who MAR Barker was and what he did is virtually irrelevant to the original point. Gronan made a dungeon. Someone pointed out that the denizens had nothing to eat. He put in a restaurant. Isn't it hilarious? BTW, aren't these 1970s fast food prices hilarious? Pretty straightforward.
Actually, MAR Barker is in the OP - he's hardly irrelevant, because without him, this thread wouldn't exist:).

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879997Hush, you and your "having a sense of proportion".
But without proportion, your measure would suffer, and that means you'd be bound to suffer often;)!

(Kudos to anyone but Gronan who guesses what that means, I'm pretty sure he will, despite me trying to make it non-obvious).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 19, 2016, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: AsenRG;879999But without proportion, your measure would suffer, and that means you'd be bound to suffer often;)!

(Kudos to anyone but Gronan who guesses what that means, I'm pretty sure he will, despite me trying to make it non-obvious).
It would help to know the author. But...

It sounds like a witticism that equivocates on different meanings of proportion and measure. It seems to me to have an 18th century tone, but that's just a hunch.,

In Gronan's original statement "sense of proportion" means keeping things in perspective and is not related to mathematical proportions or strict comparisons.

In the witticism "proportion" is used in the mathematical sense of comparing to things e.g. lengths or weights.

Measure is then used to refer to measures in a mercantile sense e.g. a merchant measuring a length of cloth or a weight of grain. So without the ability to compare lengths or weights the ability to measure would be difficult or impossible so you ability to measure would suffer.

"bound to suffer often" seems to mean that if you can't measure accurately you are going to have problems in life e.g. going to the store to buy a gallon (4 liters) of milk or a pound (.5 kilos) of meat or cheese can't occur so both the merchant and the customer will suffer.

The last phrase may also be using "measure" not in the sense of measuring but in the sense of a fixed amount of a food commodity, .e.g. "a measure of grain" which was a period way of talking about standard amounts of foodstuffs.

At least that's how I read it.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Willie the Duck on February 19, 2016, 12:00:26 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879999Actually, MAR Barker is in the OP - he's hardly irrelevant, because without him, this thread wouldn't exist:).

But who he is pretty much is (and as a corollary, what or whether Chainsaw thinks of Barker) isn't. He's just an observer to Gronan's dungeon who pointed out that it didn't explain what the inhabitants ate.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 12:35:24 PM
Standard amounts of foodstuffs... Such as beer!
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: chirine ba kal on February 19, 2016, 03:01:47 PM
Well, that joke fell flat, sir. Tough crowd in here, tonight; maybe you should have my cousin do his juggling act for a bit to loosen them up.

(And don't forget to tell them to try the veal; the cook has a lot of it in stock, and we're running a special. Just a hint, there.)

And we'll be here all week, folks! Enjoy the show! :)

http://www.fkb.com/ (http://www.fkb.com/)
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 03:57:37 PM
Don't forget to tip your servers, those kids work hard!
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 03:59:18 PM
Quote from: chirine ba kal;880040Well, that joke fell flat, sir. Tough crowd in here, tonight; maybe you should have my cousin do his juggling act for a bit to loosen them up.

(And don't forget to tell them to try the veal; the cook has a lot of it in stock, and we're running a special. Just a hint, there.)

And we'll be here all week, folks! Enjoy the show! :)

http://www.fkb.com/ (http://www.fkb.com/)

What is this, an audience or a jury?  Take theRPGsite -- please!
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: JasperAK on February 19, 2016, 05:35:17 PM
Thank you Gronan
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 19, 2016, 06:23:41 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879997Hush, you and your "having a sense of proportion".

He hasn't seen your unending "You Youngsters Know Nothing!" lawncrapper attitude for years.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: jeff37923 on February 19, 2016, 06:26:35 PM
Quote from: Bren;880017It would help to know the author. But...

It sounds like a witticism that equivocates on different meanings of proportion and measure. It seems to me to have an 18th century tone, but that's just a hunch.,

In Gronan's original statement "sense of proportion" means keeping things in perspective and is not related to mathematical proportions or strict comparisons.

In the witticism "proportion" is used in the mathematical sense of comparing to things e.g. lengths or weights.

Measure is then used to refer to measures in a mercantile sense e.g. a merchant measuring a length of cloth or a weight of grain. So without the ability to compare lengths or weights the ability to measure would be difficult or impossible so you ability to measure would suffer.

"bound to suffer often" seems to mean that if you can't measure accurately you are going to have problems in life e.g. going to the store to buy a gallon (4 liters) of milk or a pound (.5 kilos) of meat or cheese can't occur so both the merchant and the customer will suffer.

The last phrase may also be using "measure" not in the sense of measuring but in the sense of a fixed amount of a food commodity, .e.g. "a measure of grain" which was a period way of talking about standard amounts of foodstuffs.

At least that's how I read it.

And here we have the other half of the Gronan-Bren bromance with his often repeated call of, "I have a brain too! I am so smart!"
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: rawma on February 19, 2016, 07:47:46 PM
Quote from: AsenRG;879823Nope. If Phil Barker asks, you're going to answer!
And you get a penalty box for thinking yourself above him.

Enough sucking up for one thread. :rolleyes: A very reasonable answer would be, "How does your character plan to find out what the monsters eat?", and I would think little of someone's trashing a game with that sort of attitude.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 19, 2016, 07:48:53 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;880070
Which brings us to jeff's theme song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nauLgZISozs).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 08:57:40 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;880070And here we have the other half of the Gronan-Bren bromance with his often repeated call of, "I have a brain too! I am so smart!"

Better than you and your incessant "I'm a 5 year old yelling PEENER! at the dinner table when Daddy has his boss over for dinner" routine.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 08:58:36 PM
Quote from: Bren;880096Which brings us to jeff's theme song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nauLgZISozs).

Just put the sap on your IL so I don't have to read his drivel any more.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 19, 2016, 09:16:34 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;880111Just put the sap on your IL so I don't have to read his drivel any more.
Fixed that for you. You owe me a beer.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 19, 2016, 09:41:14 PM
Quote from: Bren;880113Fixed that for you. You owe me a beer.

Worth it.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: AsenRG on February 20, 2016, 01:57:36 PM
Quote from: Willie the Duck;880018But who he is pretty much is (and as a corollary, what or whether Chainsaw thinks of Barker) isn't. He's just an observer to Gronan's dungeon who pointed out that it didn't explain what the inhabitants ate.
When different people ask you the same question, it's not really the same question:).

Seriously, I shouldn't have to really prove that, but given the url of this page, I'd better do it in advance;). "Where were you last night" is a different question when asked by an uniformed cop than when asked by your colleague at work.

Also, you're missing a rather important fact if you're trying to engage in earnest with my responses in this thread:D.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;880040Well, that joke fell flat, sir. Tough crowd in here, tonight; maybe you should have my cousin do his juggling act for a bit to loosen them up.

(And don't forget to tell them to try the veal; the cook has a lot of it in stock, and we're running a special. Just a hint, there.)

And we'll be here all week, folks! Enjoy the show! :)

http://www.fkb.com/ (http://www.fkb.com/)
That'd be a good way to relax. Tell me, is the cook also a cousin? Or did you hire outside the clan:p?

Quote from: jeff37923;880068He hasn't seen your unending "You Youngsters Know Nothing!" lawncrapper attitude for years.
Wrong, I have seen it this year. For a variety of reasons, it simply doesn't bother me;).
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: kosmos1214 on February 20, 2016, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879694No, but I did give up beer.

And I've had to modify my "internet fast" into a "Facebook fast"; sadly, where I live the Internet is the only place I can talk about my interests with other people who share them, and not sharing what's important to me is not good for my mental health.
dont worry man i just spent a week bottled up with out any talk about my interests . and it was damn hard
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879704* shrug * No worries.

Really, I just thought people would find a 40+ year old McDonald's price list mildly interesting.
i did i love that stuff
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879810About $100 to $150, and yes they're available.

My point is that a $25 engine from 1956 brought forward to 2016 is about $225 to $250 in current money, and the newer engine is MUCH better quality than the old one.  Objectively, as in "looks more like the real thing," "better quality motor and gearing," etc.

A lot of stuff is actually cheaper than it would be if you just adjusted 1956 prices for inflation.
or like how every one wined about the cost of the ps3 at 600$ and went off how there Atari 2600 only cost 200$.
Never mind that when you convert both to 2008 dollars the 2600 is 712.36$
and the ps3 is still 600$
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 20, 2016, 11:45:48 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;879759GRONAN! Back on topic!

Damn, beer withdrawal is bad for you!

How much did Gygax and Arneson focus on dungeon ecology in actual play?

How "jokey" were elements in their campaign? Did they run separate "serious" games vs. more "silly" campaigns?

What is your personal style regarding ecology and has it changed over the years?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;879811Virtually not at all.  As I've said before, BLACKMOOR and GREYHAWK both had huge amounts of piss take in them.  The first temple in GREYHAWK to get a name was the one I dubbed "First Church of Crom, Scientist."  There might be some ecology elements if it made for a cool aspect of play, but otherwise not.

Play was serious but characterization was not.  Much like having a Napoleonic miniatures army commanded by General Sir Hugh Jarce, but being so good at the game you win all the time.

More later.

This really, I think, is worth talking about.  Since miniatures wargaming became popular in the 20th century, there have been players serious about their skill and not about the atmosphere.  "Sir Hugh Jarce" is one example.  Dave and Gary both were very much in that camp.  Greyhawk Dungeon had a bowling alley for giants, for example; silly, yes, but at the same time you could get very dead there.

Blackmoor was even more so.  Dave rarely took ANY setting very seriously, and Blackmoor reflected this.  Early on when the player characters failed to stop Blackmoor from falling to the elves, the elves promptly set up tour guides and started selling tickets.  They even installed turnstiles at the doors to the dungeon.

And when players wanted to keep adventuring in the dungeons, the elves happily started selling "adventurers' tickets," with a notice that you'd be paying a toll to get out.  I think it was 10% of your haul.

So then the local merchants set up booths outside the turnstiles to sell spikes, rope, 10' poles, and other dungeon necessities.  Eventually it turned into a full-blown full-service market set up at the entrance to the dungeon.  There wasn't some little bloke wandering around selling "Sausage Inna Bun," but there might as well have been.

Terry Pratchett stated (somewhere) that Discworld was at least in part a parody of the way RPGs worked.  With all respect to Sir Terry, Discworld wasn't a parody, it was a rediscovery of the original.  Ankh-Morpork is so close to Greyhawk in spirit (if not in text) that the difference isn't worth measuring.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 21, 2016, 12:13:05 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;880354Greyhawk Dungeon had a bowling alley for giants, for example; silly, yes, but at the same time you could get very dead there.

Not positive. But that may have been inspired by a scene in either one of the Narnia or Xanth books?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: rawma on February 21, 2016, 12:47:04 AM
Quote from: Omega;880356Not positive. But that may have been inspired by a scene in either one of the Narnia or Xanth books?

In The Silver Chair, Puddleglum, Eustace and Jill travel through Ettinsmoor in Narnia and encounter giants playing cock-shies; apparently the greatest danger of being hit was to whatever they were not aiming at. I don't know enough about Xanth to say whether there was anything similar there.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Christopher Brady on February 21, 2016, 01:12:01 AM
Quote from: rawma;880364In The Silver Chair, Puddleglum, Eustace and Jill travel through Ettinsmoor in Narnia and encounter giants playing cock-shies; apparently the greatest danger of being hit was to whatever they were not aiming at. I don't know enough about Xanth to say whether there was anything similar there.

*Looks up Cockshies*  Throwing rocks at roosters, isn't that where they got Stone Giants from?  NEAT!
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 21, 2016, 06:42:46 AM
Quote from: Omega;880356Not positive. But that may have been inspired by a scene in either one of the Narnia or Xanth books?
Can't be Xanth. The first Xanth book was published 3 years after D&D.

I don't recall a bowling alley in Narnia, but Narnia giants are huge and have huge houses and such. So if they bowled in alleys the alleys would be huge. IIR, The Silver Chair is the book where giants figure prominently. It's also the one with Puddleglum the Marshwiggle.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Kyle Aaron on February 22, 2016, 04:48:58 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;880354And when players wanted to keep adventuring in the dungeons, the elves happily started selling "adventurers' tickets," with a notice that you'd be paying a toll to get out.  I think it was 10% of your haul.
There was some published module with a bunch of dwarves outside a dungeon and a wheel you'd spin to determine how much to pay. We said, "This is the deal I propose," and we smacked them over. They had more treasure than we found in the next few sessions in the actual dungeon.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Omega on February 22, 2016, 11:15:49 AM
One of our groups way back actually got mugged by adventurers who were waiting for people to leave the site so they could just loot them instead of going down in the dungeon themselves.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: trechriron on February 22, 2016, 12:33:55 PM
You know, this really got me thinking about how much MORE it cost for refills back in the day. I wonder when they decided to just jack the price up and give out the refills "for free"?
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 22, 2016, 02:20:11 PM
Quote from: trechriron;880597You know, this really got me thinking about how much MORE it cost for refills back in the day. I wonder when they decided to just jack the price up and give out the refills "for free"?
When they decided they could save more money by getting you to fill your own drink instead of paying someone to fill it for you.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Christopher Brady on February 22, 2016, 04:23:48 PM
Quote from: Bren;880623When they decided they could save more money by getting you to fill your own drink instead of paying someone to fill it for you.

That's actually inaccurate.  McDickie workers get paid the same amount no matter what they do.  Which is minimal wage.

And Fast Food drinks are the real way they make money.  The actual price of a drink is about a nickel, 3c of it is the cup.  So you could get 10 refills and still not make the money you spent back.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: kosmos1214 on February 22, 2016, 05:40:26 PM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;880652That's actually inaccurate.  McDickie workers get paid the same amount no matter what they do.  Which is minimal wage.

And Fast Food drinks are the real way they make money.  The actual price of a drink is about a nickel, 3c of it is the cup.  So you could get 10 refills and still not make the money you spent back.

witch is why my local mcds doesn't care that i go there eat and fill my cup 7 or 8 times over the next 3 or 4 hour while i read / what ever
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Bren on February 22, 2016, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;880652That's actually inaccurate.  McDickie workers get paid the same amount no matter what they do.
How much people get paid to work at McDonald's isn't relevant to what I said. The point is that by having the customer fill their own drink, McD's needs fewer workers on staff, especially during a busy time. So that's fewer people they need to pay (however much they get paid). Most of the cost to McD's of the drink is the labor cost. As you said, the materials cost is cheap. Saving on labor costs is  the same reason the grocery store profits when you scan, check out, and bag your own groceries.
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: trechriron on February 22, 2016, 07:24:59 PM
If you're a 10' tall, 770lb Ogre, and you show up at the Golden Sow Dungeon Buffet (now with boiled gnome stew!), will they charge you MORE? If so, is that racism or just fat bigotry?

I imagine one of the drink choices could be "the anguished tears of the butt-hurt". Not sure what to call that soft drink. Mt. Boo Hoo? Would it make a good mixer? The labor costs involved probably make for a higher retail on that. Of course "Mr. Not That Door!" would likely be more available and therefor less expensive.

I actually believe the dungeon would be MUCH more believable with secret service tunnels with various "employee" lounges scattered throughout. When you clock out, you magic tube way yourself to Monster Housing where you can relax in peace sans adventurers. The mezzanine in Monster Housing could contain a menagerie of these shops and eateries. Build a Bugbear, Cold Angry, Spencer's Gifts (unchanged in format)...
Title: "The monsters eat FUCK YOU, that's what they eat."
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 22, 2016, 08:52:04 PM
That game is called XCrawl...
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