DGG,
  I have been trying to avoid posting here. Only because I didn't want to seem like I was piling on.
  The reality is, CoM makes you seem like a new ST who simply doesn't understand one of his players and either doesn't care or can't stretch their horizon to include this new information. Or at least, that's how I see it.

  Anyways, only 2 things strike me as cringeworthy:
1) At one point Michelle says she is giving her char Common Sense. Now I am only familiar with the Exalted 1e version (and some non-WW versions), but that is a Trait that usually means the ST/GM is supposed to tell the player they are doing something patently dumb before PCs/NPCs react/dice get rolled. It feels like either Michelle changed her mind (it happens) or this ability was overlooked.
2) There is another kind of player, they are not dumb and they do enjoy RP'ing very much. They are called Casual gamers. Making room for casual gamers is how the video gaming industry has been able to vastly surpass tabletop gaming in terms of success. Here are the signs of a casual gamer:
a) Social issues matter to them, they need time at the session to shoot the breeze with other players, etc.
b) They don't like to learn the system. They will find that level of equilibrium where they know enough to be functional, but not be so knowledgeable as to surpass anyone at the table.
c) There characters start out as vague ideas, but get solidified in play. But even aft4er some character development, their characters are more likely to mimic the real people than artificial persona.
d) sometimes they forget key details of rules, setting or campaigns.
e) They do not do much (if any) game play/prep when they are not at the table (like cribbing someone else's notes instead of making their own gaming materials)

  Most casual gamers have a good reason, they have a job that is detail oriented, or learning reminds them of school and school is bad memories for them. Some don't. But the point is, I think we, as a gaming community, need to make room for and embrace casual gamers. It sounds like you sort of did that with Michelle, but only at a high personal price for her (constant criticism/embarrassment at not knowing the rules, etc.). But, I think you could have made a slightly kinder effort.

  Anyways, welcome to the boards, I hope the rest of your threads go smoother here.

Quote from: dindenver;269360DGG,
1) At one point Michelle says she is giving her char Common Sense. Now I am only familiar with the Exalted 1e version (and some non-WW versions), but that is a Trait that usually means the ST/GM is supposed to tell the player they are doing something patently dumb before PCs/NPCs react/dice get rolled. It feels like either Michelle changed her mind (it happens) or this ability was overlooked.

It's funny you should bring that up because it brings back a lot of memories. The use of the merit Common Sense became a point of contention between me and Michelle but Michelle wasn't the only one who misread/abused the merits she had. I encountered many players who raped the Merit & Flaw system and I was only too happy to see it flushed with the New World of Darkness Games. Common Sense (according to the 2nd ed Player's Guide) is exactly what it is. Common sense. It gives the players some storytelling cues as to how to best approach an everyday situation.  The key word here is "everyday". So when Michelle tried to use the merit in a combat with a vampire who was using powers she had never seen, I ruled that no, this wasn't an "everyday" situation. We're talking about a 1-point merit here. She cried foul so off to the books we went. In order to help mitigate the situation, I went to task to come up with a viable solution as a compromise once we hit the next chapter milestone. The problem there was with the M&F system and not necessarily with Michelle, hence why I decided to leave that little part of our gaming history aside.  

Quote from: dindenver;2693602) There is another kind of player, they are not dumb and they do enjoy RP'ing very much. They are called Casual gamers. Making room for casual gamers is how the video gaming industry has been able to vastly surpass tabletop gaming in terms of success.

An interesting theory but one I can safely squash based on two things: 1) Michelle was never into video games. If she was indeed a casual gamer, video games would at least provide some attraction to her and they didn't 2) A casual gamer by your definition just wants to play. Well later on Michelle somehow got roped into being an assistant ST to some on-line game and even organizing a LARP.

No, Michelle was more of a Mary-Sue player with a penchant for attention whoring and twinkish behavior.
 
 

Quote from: dindenver;269360Most casual gamers have a good reason, they have a job that is detail oriented, or learning reminds them of school and school is bad memories for them. Some don't. But the point is, I think we, as a gaming community, need to make room for and embrace casual gamers. It sounds like you sort of did that with Michelle, but only at a high personal price for her (constant criticism/embarrassment at not knowing the rules, etc.). But, I think you could have made a slightly kinder effort.

Oh yes. I *should* have been kinder. Like when she announced "I am leaving the game". I replied "oh? Alright then.". That was truly an asshole move on my part. Later on in private when I asked her why she was leaving she said "Well I really didn't WANT to leave but since you made no effort to chase me and just immediately accepted my resignation without asking, you are really just kicking me out!"  So yeah. I should have been kinder, I should have also been a mind reader and know that Michelle never states what she wants, she only alludes to it and it is solely my fault that we were having problems. I look back upon those days and I smile because while I was indeed frustrated at the situation, my experiences have made me and plenty others laugh over and over again. They say sometimes laughter is born out of frustration.

Not that I don't appreciate your armchair coaching. You have provided me some healthy morsels of food for thought while I enjoy my morning coffee. As much as I would love to contribute to the other discussions on this board, I am afraid it is back to work for me. Besides, considering the reception and name calling I got here, I highly doubt that any of my future posts will be well received.

Cheers!

--The Draconian Garden Gnome

Quote from: DGG;269416Not that I don't appreciate your armchair coaching. You have provided me some healthy morsels of food for thought while I enjoy my morning coffee. As much as I would love to contribute to the other discussions on this board, I am afraid it is back to work for me. Besides, considering the reception and name calling I got here, I highly doubt that any of my future posts will be well received.

There's plenty of posters who've never let being held in general disdain hold them back...

Quote from: Warthur;269430There's plenty of posters who've never let being held in general disdain hold them back...

All the more power to them, but I am afraid my days "unmoderated text-duel match smack-down, forum survival of the fittest!" days have long since passed. I write the way I would speak to someone face-to-face even when confronted with such hostility. I would much rather spend my time conversing with those who share my sense of net civility and passion of the games I love which this site clearly lacks (with the exception of a select few).

Quote from: DGG;269435All the more power to them, but I am afraid my days "unmoderated text-duel match smack-down, forum survival of the fittest!" days have long since passed. I write the way I would speak to someone face-to-face even when confronted with such hostility. I would much rather spend my time conversing with those who share my sense of net civility and passion of the games I love which this site clearly lacks (with the exception of a select few).

And yet, you are still here.  In this thread.

There are other forums on here, you know.  I doubt you will necessarily find the consensus you seek here, we are a fairly contentious lot by nature.  You can start any number of threads about nWoD, the old WoD, or some other game you profess interest in.

Or, you can continue to defend your ten year old actions to a group that has already expressed their opinion regarding your behaviour.

Nevermind that he utterly missed Dindenver's post, he's just reflexively defending himself at this point... which is pretty much his only purpose here.

As the resident expert judge of posts I rate his style as 'Wanting'.   Or 'Chartruese'... if you feel the need for a more abstract answer.

DGG,
  Hm, well, I wasn't saying all casual gamers were video game players. I was saying the video game industry is doing a better job of embracing casual video game players. While Tabletop games industry still requires a huge barrier to entry.
  We want you to have your own books and dice, commit huge blocks of time and memorize a bunch of rules in order to RP.
  In order to play Mario Party (a casual video game I think) you have to have a friend with a Wii and a half hour or so to blow.
  Obviously, I can't even imagine how the RPG industry can lower the barrier to entry to that low of a level, but we, as GMs, can do our part by accepting casual gamers into our circle of friends and letting the engage the game at the level they feel comfortable with.

  Also, I have a few casual gamers in my group, so this is not just me sniping from the wings, I practice what I preach. It sounds like you have mellowed out over the years, so congrats to you.

I thought I'd made it clear that this thread was now about clown sodomy. Please try to stay on topic.
Do you think it's the way that clowns dress that leads to them being targeted for sexual assault, or maybe the makeup- or is it just the company that they keep?
Discuss.

Quote from: Aos;269517I thought I'd made it clear that this thread was now about clown sodomy. Please try to stay on topic.
Do you think it's the way that clowns dress that leads to them being targeted for sexual assault, or maybe the makeup- or is it just the company that they keep?
Discuss.

It's the shoes.  They ain't runnin' nowhere fast in them funny shoes.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;269528It's the shoes.  They ain't runnin' nowhere fast in them funny shoes.

And they keep them balanced when they are bent over at the waist.

Don't ask me how I know...

Quote from: Spike;269515As the resident expert judge of posts I rate his style as 'Wanting'.   Or 'Chartruese'... if you feel the need for a more abstract answer.

I dunno. It seems "twee", more than anything else. It kind of reminds me of a defiant Sally Field or maybe Struthers....I can't tell.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Idinsinuation;269528It's the shoes.  They ain't runnin' nowhere fast in them funny shoes.

Quote from: James J Skach;269531And they keep them balanced when they are bent over at the waist.

Don't ask me how I know...

It is this sort of enlightened thinking that makes this board the shining beacon of intellectual hope that it is. Well done, sirs. Well done indeed. And James I would never inquire into the specific composition of another gentleman's social arrangements. It would be unseemly.
I will say, however, that few acts are as sensual and satisfying as gently palpitating a round red rubber nose.

Quote from: Aos;269517I thought I'd made it clear that this thread was now about clown sodomy. Please try to stay on topic.
Do you think it's the way that clowns dress that leads to them being targeted for sexual assault, or maybe the makeup- or is it just the company that they keep?
Discuss.

The way I see it, if you're cramming yourself into one of those tiny little cars with nineteen other guys, all of whom are wearing makeup and bright flouncy clothes, you're pretty much demanding to be sodomized.

As always, Smokey Robinson said it best:

Just like Pagliacci did,
I try to keep my surface hid.
Smiling in the crowd, I try,
But in a lonely room, I cry
The tears of a clown.

Quote from: J Arcane;268946And now we get the friend who just happens to find the thread and shows up to defend him.

Assuming it's not just a sockpuppet anyway.

The patheticness continues unabated.

Sorry. Not a friend. Different continent too.

I was just checking over here, saw the thread and since I did read the CoM when they were first posted over on the old WW forums decided to check and found a lot of outrage over some extremely old posts.

But do carry on with your witch hunt. You might actually catch a witch one day.

Quote from: DGG;268890So you're one of the few that remember when the forum was still green? )

Glad to see there are some old-timers still around.

Still around. Still hang out over at the WW forums occasionally too.