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Greetings!

Hello, gang. Have any of you embraced a Hungary-like Kingdom in your campaigns? I imagine most of our European friends are fairly familiar with Hungary, but I think that for most Americans in general, Hungary is someplace that is exotic and weird. Our primary school system doesn't typically talk a lot about Hungary, or the whole of Eastern Europe much at all. To be honest, aside from ancient Greece, ancient Rome, Medieval Britain and France is what our school systems focus on. Thus, being interested in all the mysterious things not talked about in school, as I later developed my expertise as a historian, I was thrilled in learning so many interesting things about ancient and medieval Hungary. Hungary organized itself at about 980 AD as an independent nation-state. Hungary developed an official constitution before anyone else in Continental Europe. The country had more wealth than France, or England. It developed a sophisticated, rich culture, a strong aristocracy, and a very strong army. Interestingly, even when Hungary was crushed by the Mongols which invaded them in the 1200's, the Hungarian people and their leaders showed tremendous toughness, resiliency, and determination to regain their freedom and rebuild their security and pride as a kingdom.

I was boggled by the fact that as I recall, the Mongol invaders essentially wiped out 50% or more of the entire male population of Hungary. The Hungarian knights and warriors were slaughtered, as were many, many villages and townsmen. What did the Hungarian King and his government do? Two large tribes of Central Asian horse-people, seeking refuge from the terrifying Mongols--came to the Hungarians, attracted to their great grasslands for their horses. The Hungarian King made a deal with these Asian Horse-people; he would let them settle in Hungary, and enjoy full citizenship, and rights, and protection for their customs and so on; however, the Asian Horse-people had to agree to fully mix with the Hungarian women, and have lots of families. The Asian Horse-peoples agreed, and a wonderful alliance was formed.

The Hungarian King also spent the treasury on raising new knights, new armies, more training, and building an epic program of fortification and castles throughout the land. Some twenty years later, the Mongol came back--and were defeated by the resurgent, powerful Hungarian army, and their bristling castles everywhere. Just fascinating stuff. The Hungarians also formed the "Black Army" which was a professional mercenary army, and which served Hungary for many years, earning numerous victories on the battlefield. Lots of different experiments going on with weapons and armour, unit formations, and tactics. Hungary was an awesome, dynamic kingdom with such a fantastic history, an interesting, dynamic government, and various professional, cultural, and military trends all being embraced and experimented with.

The scope for adventure in such a kingdom is mind-boggling, if you grab onto some of the historical scenarios around Hungary's borders at the time. In addition, you had noble families struggling for dynastic power, church powers stepping in, lots of foreign powers seeking to befriend Hungary, or gobble them up; you had the Ottomans of course, waiting like a hungry beast at the frontier. You had plots and schemes going on, art being developed, huge libraries and cultural centers. The inspiration is truly glittering and awesome!

What do you all think? Have you developed something like a Hungary in your campaigns?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hungary is an excellent source for inspiration with a rich medieval history. I also highly recommending checking out Bulgaria as well. If I had a group who wanted to do something faux-historical, I'd probably use Bulgaria because of my previous research. Lots of cool myths to work with across Eastern Europe and there's tremendous art and imagery from the region you can easily access.

Actually, my father was Hungarian, he was a Hungarian Gypsy. From what I heard, he identified as a "Magyar"
He died many years ago and I don't know a lot about his past.
Apparently I have a Half Brother named "Zoltan" from a previous marriage of his when he married a Polish woman before he met my mother (Who's Welsh).

I believe he fled from Hungary to the UK after the Russians invaded in 1956 and he was in the Hungarian armed forces at the time.

Anyway, yeah Hungary has a very rich history, but no I haven't used it much for RPG material. I really ought to though.

Thanks for the info! :)

@SHARK:  you should check out @Melan's blog and new zine:  http://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com/ (my copy of issue #3 will hopefully arrive tomorrow, since the postal gods were not kind to me yet ;) ).

Allan.

I have trouble taking people to fantasy France. The love of 21st Cen, Cosmopolitan Brooklyn, Ren Faire, ersatz Britannia is quite strong. I blame America's lack of geography classes. :p

Quote from: Spinachcat;1059813Hungary is an excellent source for inspiration with a rich medieval history. I also highly recommending checking out Bulgaria as well. If I had a group who wanted to do something faux-historical, I'd probably use Bulgaria because of my previous research. Lots of cool myths to work with across Eastern Europe and there's tremendous art and imagery from the region you can easily access.

Greetings!

Yeah, my friend! I love Bulgaria! I read they were the first Europeans to learn to smelt gold...damn...what do you know about the great Bulgars? They originally were badass steppe barbarians from around the lower Volga river, as I recall. Lots of wars, alliances, struggling for land, animals and women. Always fighting with neighbors trying to eat them. What do you know about them, my friend? Get on it, brother! lol

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

A practical note: only call Hungary "Eastern Europe" if you don't care about offending Hungarians. They'll be quick to point out that the eastern edge of Europe is at the Ural mountains, which makes Hungary Central Europe, thank you very much.

I have a copy of a book called "The White Stag."  It's a children's retelling of a Hungarian legend about how the Huns came to settle in Hungry.  It doesn't match history at all but it's a fun read.

The Hungarian language is noticeable different linguistically from its neighbors.  It's practically in a family by itself.  I don't know much about the details (or have forgotten).  Long ago, I lived next door to a Bulgarian immigrant to the U.S. who was a linguist.  Her major was Hungarian.  We had some interesting discussions about the languages of the area.

And I finally de-lurk (Hi guys! o/ )

Apparently Hungarian shares the same roots as Finnish indicating there was some wide ranging tribal migrations back in pre-history. The web comic Stand Still Stay Silent has a language tree that illustrates this quite well:  http://sssscomic.com/comic.php?page=196  (Also a very good comic that you should read)

I have always found Romania very interesting as well.

I've had two ideas to use re Hungary.
First, is an alt history where the medieval magyars win that battle in Poland, and conquer Europe in a manner similar to the Mongol invasion of China.  (Yes, I intended the Viceroy of Frankorsag to be named Szarkozi).

Second, any readers familiar with The Spinward Marches will know of the Darrians and the Swordworlders.  A couple thousand years before the setting, the Darrians (Space Elves) took in a bunch of Turkish refugees, ruled the local area, and were devastated by a huge solar flare that knocked their civilization back to the stone age.  While the Darrians were trying to rebuild planetary civilizations, about a thousand years later, some German refugees settled nearby and started their own interstellar civilization.  When the Darrians got it back together, the found that what had once been unoccupied space now had a hostile power centered there, almost on the Darrian doorstep.  

People have said that the Darrian/Swordworld rivalry reminds them of the Scandinavian/Germanic rivalry.  To me it seems more like the Romanian/Hungarian one.  
Magyars:  We've been here for over a thousand years!  And you people talk funny!
Romanians:  We've been here for two thousand years (minus that interregnum we don't talk about), and WE talk funny?

In my Traveller Universe, I had Romanians arrive at Darrian, and Magyars (with a few Austrians so I didn't have to change many names) settle the Swordworlds.  Mutual reaction when the two stellar nations meet:  "4000 years later, and YOU GUYS again?"

Quote from: danskmacabre;1059820Actually, my father was Hungarian, he was a Hungarian Gypsy. From what I heard, he identified as a "Magyar"
He died many years ago and I don't know a lot about his past.

There's some very interesting history behind the formation of the Holy Roman Empire by Otto I, and repelling the Magyar 'horde', which apparently loved to visit Western Europe uninvited.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1059880The Hungarian language is noticeable different linguistically from its neighbors.  It's practically in a family by itself.  I don't know much about the details (or have forgotten).  Long ago, I lived next door to a Bulgarian immigrant to the U.S. who was a linguist.  Her major was Hungarian.  We had some interesting discussions about the languages of the area.

Hungarian is a peculiar language, very easy to learn, extremely difficult to learn well.  With insignificant exceptions every letter in the alphabet has one particular sound.  Very few irregular verbs (of course to be - "lenni" is one of them).

Weirdly, it has more in common with English than any of the closer languages.  No gender, adjective-adjective-noun, subject-predicate-object - and extremely context heavy, but in a different way than English.  In English, when you put down something, it has an entirely different meaning based on what you are putting down:  Putting down a book, putting down a baby, putting down a dog, or putting down a wise ass?

Comparatively, in English we say "I see the car."  In Hungarian, that could be said in any one of three ways depending on whether the speaker means "I spotted the car," "The car is here", or "The car is over there."

Quote from: GameDaddy;1059887I have always found Romania very interesting as well.

Greetings!

Well, what are some of the salient points of interest in Romania for you, Gamedaddy?

I think it is pretty awesome that Romania was largely founded by Roman soldiers, settling in fortified colonies along the frontiers after serving their careers in the Roman legions. I always wonder what life was like for a retired Roman soldier living in the frontier of Romania. Some small, fortified colony, certainly Roman in architecture and techniques, though having only a glimpse of the refinements offered in a proper city.

Imagine who else lived there, and how these various tribal peoples lived. What gods they worshipped. Why did they choose to love the Roman soldiers? Certainly, we know there were times of fierce conflict along the Danube, in defending the Roman Empire. And yet, at other times, we know that the Danube Frontier was prosperous, stable, and peaceful.

What the hell kinds of food were they eating over there? What kinds of clothing were they into? It's a rough, wild and primitive area, all mixing with different elements of Roman civilization, different barbarian tribes, as well as other influences from further out. It is all deeply fascinating and very cool to learn how different tribes met, how they fought, why they made alliances, what was important to them, and how they united, and gradually embraced urban cultures over traditional nomadic or barbarian cultures.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Interestingly, Hungarian history remains largely unexploited in gaming even within Hungary. In the 1980s, when AD&D arrived in the country, and in the 1990s, when gaming spread beyond a narrow hobbyist audience, the American game worlds were seen as more interesting (and probably more exotic! :D) than our own. The most popular local game, M.a.g.u.s. (which is derived from AD&D, but differs very much in its core assumptions), is set in lands most closely resembling mediaeval Italy. It has remained a curious blind spot all through the years, aside from one badly regarded Shadowrun supplement, and Hussar's Strike, a mini-game set during the Turkish wars. A friend of mine is running an OD&D campaign set in a land influenced by 19th century romantic epics (essentially proto-fantasy!), but that's one home game.

Mediaeval Hungary does, however, offer some interesting features for an RPG treatment:

• While not fully "points of light" in the American West sense, Hungary was much less densely populated than France or Italy, with only about 2.5 million inhabitants in the mid-14th century (France had 20 million). This makes for much smaller settlements, and a lot of room for adventurers and monsters. On the other hand, the great mediaeval famines had never struck Hungary: population never grew enough to hit a growth barrier.
• Much of the centre of the country was wetlands and dense forests, where villages and small monasteries would often be well hidden. On the other hand, the mountain regions on the edges were very underpopulated as well, save for specific border guard populations (the ancestors of the modern Székelys), and miners. Since Hungary's wealth was in gold and silver, mining towns flourished, mostly run by Saxon colonists ("Saxon" refers to a set of privileges, not necessarily precise origin). Some of these towns to the north were pawned off to the King of Poland, who would have small "bubbles" of territory within Hungary.
• Royal power fluctuated significantly over time: there were periods with very strong central power, and others characterised by the almost complete dissolution of this authority, and de facto rule by major landowners, who were almost kings in their own right. Until the consolidation brought by the Anjou family in the 14th century, this would go from one extreme to the other within a single generation. Both orderly fantasy feudalism and outright civil war are potential backgrounds.
• There are, ironically, no notable mediaeval vampire legends associated with Transylvania: the region is mostly associated with ghost stories and the faerie (it is sometimes called "The Fairy Garden", not necessarily in a positive sense, but as a wild and eerie place). The close analogy for someone brought up in the USA would be Scotland.
• The Mongol invasion left many ruins behind, a good place for dungeoneering. Roman remains were also present, although universally ruined, since in the period between Rome and the Kingdom of Hungary, the Carpathian Basin had been mostly reduced to wilderness, with the occasional petty kingdom or short-lived nomad empire - but certainly not kingdoms able to support the former Roman cities and fortresses.

In the section on "The Continent" and the timeline of future events, the Dark Albion book details quite a bit of information on Hungary during the time of Mattias Corvinus.