Oh, I see what you mean.

I wasn't commenting about Pundit's claims about the hobby in general, just agreeing with him in this instance about repression.

That's just petitio principii.

One, I have no doubt that the game will be played largely by the people Pundit refers to as "storygamers" and from what I've seen, fatbearded catpissmen are a much smaller subset of that gamer demographic than they are of the demographic that Pundit refers to as "traditional roleplayers."  Certainly, AndyK and Ewen (the translators of Maid) are not fatbeards and do not smell like catpiss... and AndyK has a hot wife, something most of the anti-storygame fatbeards who congregate here could only dream of.  It also includes a decent number of women (and if you think women can't find pervy stuff like Maid appealing, it demonstrates your lamentable lack of familiarity with women).

OTOH, I think the constant effort to deny the prurient aspects of Maid are intellectually dishonest.  Notwithstanding that the rules text doesn't include much if any explicit sexual reference, the game is designed to emulate a fictional genre that is all about sexual titillation centered around girls who are at best on the edge of being legal (and at worst are barely pubescent).  The fact that the girls are cartoon and not real is utterly beside the point.  It's fucking creepy, and I lament seeing it associated with a hobby I enjoy.  Then again, I think it's less harmful to the hobby than the legion of fatbearded catpissmen who perpetuate the Comic Book Guy stereotype that typifies gamers to the world at large, and who are all too strongly represented here and on TBP.

Ultimately lots of people enjoy lots of things I don't, and they're free to enjoy those things and I'm free to hold my dissenting opinions... here, at least.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old School;255360The fact that the girls are cartoon and not real is utterly beside the point.

My point about that is that if someone wants pictures of young girls in almost any imaginable position, I think we all know how available those are. Stylised drawings of girly underwear are pretty small tuna next to what's out there.

Quote from: droog;255371My point about that is that if someone wants pictures of young girls in almost any imaginable position, I think we all know how available those are. Stylised drawings of girly underwear are pretty small tuna next to what's out there.

Uhhh... yeah.  Obviously.  I don't disagree with you at all.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  It's not like creepiness is some binary state where the options are "the most fucked up thing imaginable" on one side and "totally non-creepy" for everything else.

KoOS

No, quite the reverse. Society is soaked with it.

Quote from: droog;255381No, quite the reverse. Society is soaked with it.

Absolutely.  That fact doesn't lessen my distaste for Maid, or for people who'd argue that there's nothing inherently fucked up about sexualizing a 10 year old girl.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old School;255384there's nothing inherently fucked up about sexualizing a 10 year old girl.

A girl did it. Maybe she was having a little fantasy about herself.

Quote from: droog;255388A girl did it. Maybe she was having a little fantasy about herself.

That may well be the case.  It's no less fucked up for it.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old School;255395That may well be the case.  It's no less fucked up for it.

How's that? You never rubbed your penis against anything when you were ten?

Quote from: King of Old School;255360OTOH, I think the constant effort to deny the prurient aspects of Maid are intellectually dishonest.  Notwithstanding that the rules text doesn't include much if any explicit sexual reference, the game is designed to emulate a fictional genre that is all about sexual titillation centered around girls who are at best on the edge of being legal (and at worst are barely pubescent).  The fact that the girls are cartoon and not real is utterly beside the point.  It's fucking creepy, and I lament seeing it associated with a hobby I enjoy.  

KoOS

Well said, and my feelings mirror yours on this subject.

Quote from: droog;255388A girl did it. Maybe she was having a little fantasy about herself.

So what if it was done by a woman?  What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  Sexualizing a child is inherently wrong whether the adult is male or female.

Quote from: droog;255397How's that? You never rubbed your penis against anything when you were ten?

I didn't write elaborate stories about it as an adult and publish them for the consumption of other adults.

KoOS

EDIT: And I find it hard to believe that you're unaware of the distinction.  This is the kind of intellectual dishonesty I was referring to above.

Quote from: King of Old School;255403I didn't write elaborate stories about it as an adult and publish them for the consumption of other adults.

But in front of good friends, in a roleplaying session, you can see the possibility for some light-hearted girly fun?

I find the genre rather more campy than creepy, basically. If it rates as porn, it's porn that's softer than a prepubescent girl's butt.

Quote from: droog;255405But in front of good friends, in a roleplaying session, you can see the possibility for some light-hearted girly fun?

For other folks?  Absolutely.

And I don't doubt that most people who bother playing it will focus on the camp factor rather than the creep factor, and that the example of play involving the 10-year-old and the broomstick is an extreme case that won't mirror anything most people do with the game.  It's not for me, but I'm sure that lots of people can have non-creepy fun with Maid.

That doesn't change the fact that the story with the 10-year-old and the broomstick was creepy as fuck, that stuff like it in the genre is creepy as fuck, and that trying to deny its creepiness is IMO both intellectually dishonest and itself creepy as fuck.

KoOS