There's an interesting thread about the game on tbp right now. It's interesting how the defence on questionable content (which seems to be the only selling point with some games from the forge and/or storygames) always seems to be that it's all fiction, therefore, it's all good and not a problem. I hazard that if you really want to play a pre-pubescent girl being violated by a broom-handle (in a light-hearted way, of course), then your problems go far deeper than roleplaying games.

I don't put this game in the same catagory as Poison'd (the most notable example) or other games of similar ilk. The authors seem to have made an effort to keep OTT squicky out and address the obvious problems with the actual play in the book - the fact it's there at all suggests that wierdos will find a home with the game, regardless, and the concern over it from the authors might be slightly revisionist. The main reason i don't put it in the same catagory is that the game doesn't seem to push you towards these outcomes in the way that Poison'd does. When folk who like Poison'd say things like -

"I was amazed by how... brutal the game is. These are not your Disney pirates. Sexual violence is not just allowed in this game, it's an integral part."

"You know how Poison'd often leads to rape within the first half hour? You sit down with a group of perfectly nice people and within half an hour they're rolling for rape. And all this happens in a happy, joyful way. It's very strange." - about a game, you know that it's fucked up and leads you towards those outcomes.

As yet, wierd kinkiness aside, i don't see that funnelling in Maid (although others with more than a passing knowledge of the game may know otherwise).

What i do wish is that folk holding certain design ideas (again, Maid aside) would stop making stuff that is fucked up. Then again, maybe that's the only way they can sell games - riding on the controversy, 'ooh, what's all the fuss about?'

OHT, I think you'd be surprised the depths I've heard hinted at in some of the talk over at /tg/.  It's fans keep it on the down low outside the IRC channels because it only serves to fuel the arguments of the rest of the folks who've argued the point that without the weird hentai pedo fetish vibe the game doesn't really seem to possess a reason to exist.  

My favorite argument though was the guy who turned the whole thing on it's ear and suggested making a "CleaningLadyRPG", taking out the loli hentai fetish inspiration and replacing it with a different stereotype, that of the elderly immigrant housekeeper.  Since you can easily run a game with every bit as much of the humor and bizzarity with that concept as you can with the original, it seemed to pretty effectively give the lie to the attempts at downplaying the real source of interest there.

I think most of it probably doesn't rise above the level of the creepy Sailor Moon DM I ran into at a con who tended to go a little overboard on the fanservice, but it's still creepy as fuck, and I just can't take the game as anything but creepy.

There's some things I just don't want in my imaginary headspace when I'm in a room surrounded by a bunch of sweaty nerds.

Quote from: J Arcane;255091OHT, I think you'd be surprised the depths I've heard hinted at in some of the talk over at /tg/.  It's fans keep it on the down low outside the IRC channels because it only serves to fuel the arguments of the rest of the folks who've argued the point that without the weird hentai pedo fetish vibe the game doesn't really seem to possess a reason to exist.  

My favorite argument though was the guy who turned the whole thing on it's ear and suggested making a "CleaningLadyRPG", taking out the loli hentai fetish inspiration and replacing it with a different stereotype, that of the elderly immigrant housekeeper.  Since you can easily run a game with every bit as much of the humor and bizzarity with that concept as you can with the original, it seemed to pretty effectively give the lie to the attempts at downplaying the real source of interest there.

I think most of it probably doesn't rise above the level of the creepy Sailor Moon DM I ran into at a con who tended to go a little overboard on the fanservice, but it's still creepy as fuck, and I just can't take the game as anything but creepy.

There's some things I just don't want in my imaginary headspace when I'm in a room surrounded by a bunch of sweaty nerds.

Oh, don't get me wrong - i wouldn't go within a million miles of it either, and think that it is pretty creepy myself.

I was just making the distinction between a game that forces you to certain outcomes through its set-up (like Poison'd) and one where the outcome is decided by the players - include the fucked-up pedo overtones, or play a wierd mashup that happens to include maids. The fact that the overtones are there means that they will be picked up on. If the mechanics don't force you to pick them up, then i put it a rung above Baker's efforts on the "WHAT!!" scale. It's a 12 rung ladder though, so second rung ain't that good.

Quote from: J Arcane;255091My favorite argument though was the guy who turned the whole thing on it's ear and suggested making a "CleaningLadyRPG", taking out the loli hentai fetish inspiration and replacing it with a different stereotype, that of the elderly immigrant housekeeper.

You sick grannyfucker!

Interesting... it took about 10 posts before Poison'd got mentioned... so it therefore it must be quite controversial game...

Quote from: droogYou sick grannyfucker!

Thjat's called gerotophilia... Anyway, Maid RPG falls more into hebephilia category, than into pedophilia... pedophilia would be lolicon RPG.

I've lived in Japan for five years. I've never seen a copy or heard it discussed. Then again I don't hang around with perverts, and contrary to popular perceptions, perverts aren't much more than a tiny minority over here.

One of my favourite arguments on the rpg.net thread was the one that roughly went "You only think it's perverted because you don't get Japanese culture."

No: 95% of the Japanese population would call the game perverted.

(I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with perversion, by the way. But let's call a spade a spade.)

There's always the d20 take on the genre :

http://www.yourgamesnow.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2070

You know, in case one wants to run Eric Van Lustbader inspired campaigns....

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;255100There's always the d20 take on the genre :

http://www.yourgamesnow.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2070

I remember the original arguments and debates about Black Tokyo when it was first released. As I recall, that ended with some of the folks involved taking the game for a test spin on one of the more, eh, adult-oriented PbP boards: couldn't say what happened with that, though.

David R: Comparing Maid RPG to Black Tokyo is like comparing Lovecraft's stories to Hello Cthulhu... One can say, that this game is lighter and softer, disneyficated version of those sick tentacle rape RPGs like Black Tokyo...

Quote from: noisms;255098I've lived in Japan for five years. I've never seen a copy or heard it discussed. Then again I don't hang around with perverts, and contrary to popular perceptions, perverts aren't much more than a tiny minority over here.

Do you game with Japanese players, using Japanese games?  Just curious, because I understand that there is quite a separation between expat and Japanese gaming scenes.

Quote from: walkerp;255107Do you game with Japanese players, using Japanese games?  Just curious, because I understand that there is quite a separation between expat and Japanese gaming scenes.

There is a separation yeah - but it's almost entirely due to language (lots of expats here are too lazy to study Japanese, and seem to enjoy being babified by not understanding anything - sorry, I have a real chip on my shoulder about that! ). But there's actually an FLGS just down the road from me and I sometimes chat with the gamers who hang out there, although I haven't played any games with them. They seem broadly representative, and they tend to like the same games as people do in the UK or US - i.e. as a rough estimate 80% of what goes on is D&D, about 10% is GURPS, 5% RuneQuest, 4% WHFRP, and the other 1% is all the other games.

I'd say the natively produced RPGs make up a small minority of that 1%. (The shop in question, a pretty big one, sells lots of translated D&D and GURPS stuff, some English books for the other bigger systems like Mongoose Runequest, Mongoose Traveller and Ars Magica as well as D&D and GURPS, a smatter of Forge-like games like Sorcerer and Burning Wheel, and one solitary Japanese RPG - something called Tokyo NOVA, which looks like an anime-ized version of Cyberpunk 2020. There are more 2nd-hand Basic D&D boxed sets on the shelves than there are copies of Tokyo NOVA. There are some bigger shops in Tokyo which have more than that, though I don't often go to those.)

Quote from: noisms;255098I've lived in Japan for five years. I've never seen a copy or heard it discussed. Then again I don't hang around with perverts, and contrary to popular perceptions, perverts aren't much more than a tiny minority over here.

One of my favourite arguments on the rpg.net thread was the one that roughly went "You only think it's perverted because you don't get Japanese culture."

No: 95% of the Japanese population would call the game perverted.

(I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with perversion, by the way. But let's call a spade a spade.)

If this is indeed the case, is makes the choice to translate this particular game rather telling, does it not? Although i certainly gather that there is worse stuff out there.

Courting controversy for its own sake indicates one of several things; seeking infamy, a cover for a lack of talent, amorality, or cynical marketeering. Often it indicates more than one of those.

I'm not convinced this was translated for the sake of courting controversy alone, but the pattern in other games from associated stables is there.

Quote from: Fritzs;255105David R: Comparing Maid RPG to Black Tokyo is like comparing Lovecraft's stories to Hello Cthulhu... One can say, that this game is lighter and softer, disneyficated version of those sick tentacle rape RPGs like Black Tokyo...

I have not read Maid, Fritz. You may be right. I was just going by what has been said about the game here. I mean it's not like Storygames and the Forge crowd are the only gamers who produce games which subject matter some might find unacceptable.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;255112I have not read Maid, Fritz. You may be right. I was just going by what has been said about the game here. I mean it's not like Storygames and the Forge crowd are the only gamers who produce games which subject matter some might find unacceptable.

Regards,
David R

Very true, David. It does seem that the proportions are hugely skewed though.

Quote from: One Horse Town;255113Very true, David. It does seem that the proportions are hugely skewed though.

Yeah. Also I suppose the way how the game's fans talk about these types of games adds fuel to the fire. (Although like I said, I have not read Maid, so no comment about this particular game)

Regards,
David R