Quote from: Fritzs;255475King of Old School: I have suprise for you... that ten years old girl who did nasty things with broomstick wasn't real.

But 10-year-old girls are real.  Young girls who are molested by perverts are real.  People who get off from the sexualization of children are real.

Orcs are not real.  Not just the orcs in the book, but in the real world there are no orcs.  Think about it.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old School;255478But 10-year-old girls are real.

Certainly, young girls are real in a way orcs are not, but no one is objecting to the existence of young girls. What's being objected to is the events of the game, and those are no more real than orcs.

Quote from: Engine;255490Certainly, young girls are real in a way orcs are not, but no one is objecting to the existence of young girls. What's being objected to is the events of the game, and those are no more real than orcs.

You're suggesting that young girls are not molested in real life?

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old School;255492You're suggesting that young girls are not molested in real life?

No, I am not. What I am directly saying is that the events being described in sessions of Maid are not occurring in real life. That they do occur is not in dispute, but what is fantasized in Maid is occurring only within the minds of the participants, and is no more real than that.

Quote from: Engine;255496No, I am not. What I am directly saying is that the events being described in sessions of Maid are not occurring in real life. That they do occur is not in dispute, but what is fantasized in Maid is occurring only within the minds of the participants, and is no more real than that.

Yes, I'm aware of that.  I'm not sure how that's relevant.  Look, I'll spell it out as plainly as I can:

Killing evil monsters is not immoral.  Pretending to kill imaginary evil monsters is not creepy.

Sexualizing children is immoral.  Pretending to sexualize imaginary children is creepy as fuck.

I don't think games like Maid should be banned or censored.  I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with playing Maid, and I do think (unlike Pundit) that people will play the game exactly as the translators suggest it is intended, as humorous and mostly-innocent camp.  I also think that playing games like Maid for the purpose of being titillated by imagery of underage sexualization makes you a fucking creep and someone with whom I would not wish to socialize on any level, and I can think of at least one semi-prominent poster on TBP for whom that description would fit to a fucking "T."

You can disagree with all of this, and that's fine.  This isn't TBP, I'm not obligated by the rules of this forum to pretend that each and every person here is a precious little snowflake whose personal predilections are equally valid as everyone elses and moral judgement is badwrong.  If I think you're a douchebag, I'll call you a douchebag to your face rather than dance around the issue.  You're welcome to think the same of me.  That's one thing that TheRPGSite has over TBP in spades.

KoOS

What's so wrong about Pundit's little anti-immigration rant is that here in Montreal we have an RPG con and we are lucky to get 200 participants.  The Anime con, which features all that Maid stuff and a lot more (including tons of young women in costume which supports those kinds of themes) gets around 3000 people.

So I'm wondering if maybe the fears shouldn't be going in the other direction, that maybe those Anime fans should be freaked out about getting a bunch of roleplayers in their scene.

I can't help but think that the real issue here is the fact that this game is called a RPG and many gamers have some kind of panic reaction in fear that others will associate the game with what they do.

Quote from: walkerp;255503What's so wrong about Pundit's little anti-immigration rant is that here in Montreal we have an RPG con and we are lucky to get 200 participants.  The Anime con, which features all that Maid stuff and a lot more (including tons of young women in costume which supports those kinds of themes) gets around 3000 people.

So I'm wondering if maybe the fears shouldn't be going in the other direction, that maybe those Anime fans should be freaked out about getting a bunch of roleplayers in their scene.

I suggested as much upthread.  The idea that an influx of anime fans will make the RPG hobby more socially unacceptable than it already is, is only convincing if your idea of social acceptability is wildly skewed from the norm.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old School;255501Yes, I'm aware of that.  I'm not sure how that's relevant.

Because it's all fantasy. Now, you restrict your fantasy to the same rules of right and wrong as real life: you make the monsters evil, so that your killing isn't "wrong." This is a common technique, and one embraced by a large portion of the roleplaying public. Some roleplayers take it a little further, recognizing that it's fantasy and probably not hurtful to, say, play an evil character who kills heroes. Some other people take it even further, and play downright malicious and creepy people who rape, pillage, and murder their way through the game setting.

I'm not prepared to object to any of that. It's your fantasy, and I refuse to judge people on the basis of what they like to pretend. We all have aspects of our fantasy lives which someone would find "creepy," and as long as your fantasy doesn't creep into my reality, I'm really not going to be upset by it.

Why doesn't it upset me? Maybe I'm nonjudgmental and tolerant. Or maybe I'm just creepy, and so other creepy people being creepy doesn't bother me. I actually think probably both things are true, and that one leads to the other [the latter to the former]. Perhaps that speaks ill of me in your mind, my tolerance to people who have deviant fantasies; that doesn't really bother me, either. My tolerance includes even the intolerant; I'm that fucked up.

Hey, no arguments here.  My bar for tolerance is set pretty high, but I'll admit that I do have one.  You don't, fair enough.  We can agree to disagree, as long as we're being honest.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old School;255507I suggested as much upthread.  The idea that an influx of anime fans will make the RPG hobby more socially unacceptable than it already is, is only convincing if your idea of social acceptability is wildly skewed from the norm.

KoOS

Good thing that no one was ever, ever suggesting that.  There's a big difference between the Robotech/Macross, BeSM, Pokemon, Sailor Moon RPGs, etc. and something like this game or the one about tentacle-porn.

I would like to think that most tentacle-rape or underage-maid-rape obsessed otakus are as scorned by the rest of the anime fans as they would be by the general public; or as we normal gamers are by things like the pirate-rape RPG the Forgers have designed.  No doubt the anime fans are in their own war for the heart of their hobby.  I have no interest in that war spilling over here, we already have our own to fight.

RPGPundit

Quote from: King of Old School;255441Of course, this argument could just as fairly be levelled at the Brian Gleichmans and Werekoalas of the hobby... and yet, one group is welcomed and celebrated here and the other is preemptorily attacked.  No argument here, I just find that interesting.

KoOS

And this right here is why I fucking hate bringing politics into a fucking gaming forum.

Quote from: jgants;255462The maids here in town all appear to be mostly younger black women who spend as much time standing out in your yard on smoke breaks as they do cleaning your house.  Will this game let me simulate that?  

Wow... is this a back-handed attempt to propagate the stereotype that blacks are lazy?

Quote from: RPGPundit;255431What I'm very concerned about is people sexualizing Roleplaying Games.

THAT is the issue.

Because if you sexualize Roleplaying Games, before you know it, we'll be the new Furry Fandom. That's what sexualizing a non-sexual hobby will lead to.

Far far too late for that. There's lots of D&D & Warhammer (40K) pr0n out there and has been for decades. As for furrys? Dragonborn and before than stuff like Tyranids, kobolds, (half-)orcs and (half-)dragons. I really shouldn't need to bring up Traveller.

It's like when Dr. Edwards is sleeping, he turns into Mr. Pundit and goes around ranting and foaming whilst still promoting Forge & Story games. Keep at it!

Oh and you could use Maid RPG to play a Mary Reilly-type game.

Shouldn't this hoax of a thread be in off-topic, anyway?