Quote from: FelixGamingX1;1144011Never seen a hobby where people politicize the crap out of it. Is it the lack of entertainment?

Pretty much every venue of entertainment has been infiltrated and either co-opted or under hidden siege. What you are seeing are the agents now pushing overtly and making increasing headway into everything. Board gaming, cartoons, RPGs, PC/console games. Mow even sports and hobbies are being targeted.

All to serve as platforms for their fake agendas.

This isnt new really, this is the 3rd iteration I've lived through so far. But this is arguably the worst and most wide spread damaging to date.

Knitting and embroidery groups have become politicized, and that was over a year ago, where have you been?

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1144013As has been said before about academic department meetings, the politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low.

I disagree in part -- the monetary stakes may be low, but the cultural stakes are high. A culture is defined, in large part, by its myths and legends. Comics, games, movies, tv - that's our contemporary legendarium. And we are witnessing a full-spectrum assault on every aspect of it. Fighting back really does matter.

Quote from: amacris;1144250I disagree in part -- the monetary stakes may be low, but the cultural stakes are high. A culture is defined, in large part, by its myths and legends. Comics, games, movies, tv - that's our contemporary legendarium. And we are witnessing a full-spectrum assault on every aspect of it. Fighting back really does matter.

I don't disagree with that at all.  It's civilization versus barbarism at stake. Where the stakes are low is that if the barbarians get their way, none of this other stuff will matter one whit.

Quote from: Chris24601;1143982That's not what pawsway claimed. He claimed Kevin was an SJW because he's claiming the Coalition is meant to be Red State America (I guess because the SJW claim is that anyone not left of Mao is a racist fascist) and that because the good guys aren't racists and are diverse (i.e. can be D-bees) and educated they're intended to be the SJWs of the setting.

It's just such an utter misread of the setting it's either deliberate malice or pants wetting levels of mental disability.

I actually know Kevin; had lunch, did some business, got the tour (the man has an amazing library). Kevin is, first and foremost, a storyteller.

The Coalition was way more inspired by The Empire in Star Wars (Kevin Long's original artwork makes it easy to see... faceless stormtroopers, speeder bikes, walkers, etc.) because he wanted a Big Bad the PCs could easily oppose than as any sort of social commentary. He also threw in the Federation of Magic so there'd be a powerful group of evil magic-users to deal with too.

Similarly, the Free State of Lazlo, Erin Tarn and the like are your plucky resistance fighting for essentially Truth, Justice and the American Way. They're basically the Rebel Alliance.

While I can't see the depths of Men's hearts, I would be flabbergasted if anything other than "what's going to make the most crazy-awesome setting ever!" was on Kevin's mind as he created Rifts.

You know, it might be a complete coincidence that that Coalition States share their initials with the Confederate States of America. Maybe it's completely random that the Coalition's dog boys come from Lone Star. It could be an unintentional parallel that the CS are fascist, racist authoritarians whose dress code incorporates skulls, and that is not intended to have any parallels with any situations in real life.

Even if you set all that aside, Cyber-Knights are literally warriors for social justice. They defend the weak, they oppose the over-reaches of authority, and they exist to bring light to the world.

Equating Antifa to fascism is simply stupid. The opposite of Antifa is fascism. If you oppose people who oppose fascism, you are supporting fascism.

I get that you don't get it. But even if Kevin himself rose up from Atlantis and proclaimed Antifa is the real fascism and anti-racism is the real racism and social justice is the real injustice, the Rifts books still make it clear who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Do you think a Glitter Boy is supposed to fire into crowds of unarmed protesters? Do you think a Cyber-Knight would kill someone for being a public nuisance or selling untaxed cigarettes? Literally you are encouraged to play a City Rat, a romanticized urban criminal. Literally, you can play a Scholar, teaching people knowledge, science, and rhetoric that will cause people to rise up against the established authority. If Kevin was trying to convey that the "good guys" should support law and order, and the bad guys were supporters of knowledge, immigration, justice, anarchy, prosecution, and diversity (even at some risk), then he really messed up somewhere along the way.

The Coalition States are very much the embodiment of authoritarianism, of anti-intellectualism, of haves-and-have-nots. And if you think it's the leftists somehow who are going to massively disarm the populace and put you at the mercy of authoritarian police and military forces... how do you explain the news? Was Tamir Rice given the right to openly bear arms? Who gets killed protests, unarmed leftists getting run over by cars, or armed white militias demonstrating in public?

So in short, I don't know what twisted logic makes Rifts anything other than of fascism, greed, environmental destruction, and the exploitation of others. Those themes are repeated time and again. The disgusting merchants of others lives and freedoms are Splugorth.

when did the rpg companies became "woke?" Was there a tipping point of sorts? I don't remember overtly political stuff in D&D books when I was into it initially in the late 2000s.

Quote from: pawsplay;1144426You know, it might be a complete coincidence that that Coalition States share their initials with the Confederate States of America. Maybe it's completely random that the Coalition's dog boys come from Lone Star. It could be an unintentional parallel that the CS are fascist, racist authoritarians whose dress code incorporates skulls, and that is not intended to have any parallels with any situations in real life.

Even if you set all that aside, Cyber-Knights are literally warriors for social justice. They defend the weak, they oppose the over-reaches of authority, and they exist to bring light to the world.

Equating Antifa to fascism is simply stupid. The opposite of Antifa is fascism. If you oppose people who oppose fascism, you are supporting fascism.

I get that you don't get it. But even if Kevin himself rose up from Atlantis and proclaimed Antifa is the real fascism and anti-racism is the real racism and social justice is the real injustice, the Rifts books still make it clear who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Do you think a Glitter Boy is supposed to fire into crowds of unarmed protesters? Do you think a Cyber-Knight would kill someone for being a public nuisance or selling untaxed cigarettes? Literally you are encouraged to play a City Rat, a romanticized urban criminal. Literally, you can play a Scholar, teaching people knowledge, science, and rhetoric that will cause people to rise up against the established authority. If Kevin was trying to convey that the "good guys" should support law and order, and the bad guys were supporters of knowledge, immigration, justice, anarchy, prosecution, and diversity (even at some risk), then he really messed up somewhere along the way.

The Coalition States are very much the embodiment of authoritarianism, of anti-intellectualism, of haves-and-have-nots. And if you think it's the leftists somehow who are going to massively disarm the populace and put you at the mercy of authoritarian police and military forces... how do you explain the news? Was Tamir Rice given the right to openly bear arms? Who gets killed protests, unarmed leftists getting run over by cars, or armed white militias demonstrating in public?

So in short, I don't know what twisted logic makes Rifts anything other than of fascism, greed, environmental destruction, and the exploitation of others. Those themes are repeated time and again. The disgusting merchants of others lives and freedoms are Splugorth.

"We call ourselves the good guys, therefore anyone that opposes us is by definition a bad guy"

If I wrote a faction like that not a single one of my players would buy the propaganda. Neither does anyone with a brain, yes antifart are the bad guys, they are fascists, racists and all around bigots.

Obviously you can't be fascist if you call yourself anti-fascist. And anyone who fights for Justice must obviously be for SOCIAL "Justice", cuz it has the word "Justice" in it, so evidently they're the same thing.

This is proof positive that the Coalition State leadership is correct in their believes regarding the common plebs' ability to rule themselves. Long live the Coalition State!

Quote from: Cigalazade;1144441when did the rpg companies became "woke?" Was there a tipping point of sorts? I don't remember overtly political stuff in D&D books when I was into it initially in the late 2000s.

I guess the original wokeness was DnD 2nd edition.

I think I found the game that tops them all.  From Channel M Publishing, the dedication in the core book for Bellum Maga reads:

'This book is us saying "fuck you" to the sexist, racist, gay bashing right wing ultra conservative luddite assholes that's trying to turning our world into a white man's paradise.'

It's a shame because the book itself is nicely illustrated and laid out.  I don't know if the rules are any good because as soon as I came across that, I stopped reading.

It is utterly bizarre to me that there are people in 2020 who still think like that.  I would have expected something like that in 1950 but I would think even radical SJW feminists could look around them and see the world isn't like that anymore.  To me that's beyond just political partisanship and into a territory of being disconnected from reality.

Quote from: kidkaos2;1144482I think I found the game that tops them all.  From Channel M Publishing, the dedication in the core book for Bellum Maga reads:

'This book is us saying "fuck you" to the sexist, racist, gay bashing right wing ultra conservative luddite assholes that's trying to turning our world into a white man's paradise.'

It's a shame because the book itself is nicely illustrated and laid out.  I don't know if the rules are any good because as soon as I came across that, I stopped reading.

It is utterly bizarre to me that there are people in 2020 who still think like that.  I would have expected something like that in 1950 but I would think even radical SJW feminists could look around them and see the world isn't like that anymore.  To me that's beyond just political partisanship and into a territory of being disconnected from reality.

I'll just leave this here. https://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/bellum-maga/

Quote from: Shasarak;1144459I guess the original wokeness was DnD 2nd edition.

   AD&D 2nd Edition pulled back in some areas to accommodate the conservative sensibilities of Middle America, but that's a far cry from being 'woke' as far as ideology goes.

   You'd get some political themes in the occasional product in the 80s (what I've heard about the Villains & Vigilantes adventure For the Greater Good would definitely qualify), and arguably in the original World of Darkness. For D&D, they don't start pushing a strong agenda until about midway into 5th Edition.

Quote from: BrokenCounsel;1144511I'll just leave this here. https://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/bellum-maga/

RAHOWA for white female SJWs - well at least it knows what it is. I find products suffused with similar sensibilities but from an "of course everyone thinks like this" perspective far more annoying.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1144013As has been said before about academic department meetings, the politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low.

Not only politics, all kinds of conflict. In all my years on Usenet, where my name and address were public knowledge and I pissed off both ends of the political spectrum and, especially, centrists, only once did someone from Usenet show up at my door. And he was looking for Ed, who lived on the second floor, to kick his ass about a dispute on how to install FoxPro properly. Drove from Michigan or somewhere in the wilderness like that, to New Haven to fight about software installation. Ed was critically ill and back in the hospital, so I told the guy to fuck off. I don't think he liked the look my dog was giving him, so he left.

Quote from: pawsplay;1144426Equating Antifa to fascism is simply stupid. The opposite of Antifa is fascism. If you oppose people who oppose fascism, you are supporting fascism.

The Nazis called themselves National Socialists, therefore if you support socialism you're a nazi.

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea has 'democratic' in the title, therefore it's a democracy.

Etc.

Etc.

Quote from: Cigalazade;1144441when did the rpg companies became "woke?" Was there a tipping point of sorts? I don't remember overtly political stuff in D&D books when I was into it initially in the late 2000s.

I'd say around 2013/2014 when the GamerGate stuff really exploded. At first it was kept to mostly video games, but given the circles that players and developers inhabit tend to have a lot of overlap it was inevitable that there was cross-contamination of sorts. Now it could definitely be argued that GamerGate by itself was more of a coincidence, given social justice as a whole had been on an upward trend and GG was merely one part of it, but it certainly seemed to propel things further. I'd say the seeds were slowly being sowed up until November 2016, when things really just exploded massively and these developers/companies really went all out with their overt Wokeness, be that to feel like edgy, 'heroic' rebels somehow (don't ask me how) sticking it to Orange Man and his Ultra Far-Right Patriarchal Voters, hoping to score brownie points with g-g-g-g-g-girls (predatorcamouflage.jpg) and their fellow Woke circle jerk circles (of mostly white people) or more likely both.