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The least woke major RPG publishers

Started by Lurtch, November 18, 2018, 10:21:37 AM

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Mr_X

#105
July 18, 2020, 12:09:32 AM
I'm finding this list very helpful.

Quote from: S'mon;1140141I recommend sticking to the Neutrals there!
MYFAROG is actual White Nationalist

I'd hate to see people like pundit and venger mixed in with things like RaHoWa.  Maybe there should be need a 5th category for stuff that's actually racist.

Mistwell

#106
July 18, 2020, 12:33:19 AM
Quote from: 1989;1140359Yep, just as WotC has no trouble making money off the "racist" legacy of Gary Gygax et al.

Pretty sure WOTC never called Gary Gygax a racist.

Stephen Tannhauser

#107
July 18, 2020, 04:32:23 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;1140455Pretty sure WOTC never called Gary Gygax a racist.

No, but I don't recall them ever calling out those who did, either.

Not that, for myself, I think it's bad for a company to shut up and stay out of political disputes, but certain silences are more telling than others (as the cancel ghouls themselves would no doubt insist).
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

kythri

#108
July 18, 2020, 04:53:09 AM
It's not even silence.

They're tacitly affirming those who did/do.

And Mistwell fucking knows it.

Almost_Useless

#109
July 18, 2020, 08:53:22 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;1140455Pretty sure WOTC never called Gary Gygax a racist.

If you go over to dmsguild.com, there are plenty of titles that have the "sorry 'bout this old racism" disclaimer and list Gary Gygax as the sole author.  If they didn't want to say Gygax et al were racist/prejudiced, they're sending mixed signals.

David Johansen

#110
July 18, 2020, 12:06:16 PM
Sure, because they want your money and the SJW's money.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

1989

#111
July 18, 2020, 12:58:08 PM
What I'm saying here is that the legacy of Gary Gygax is Dungeons and Dragons. WotC have now put disclaimers on all of that stuff. It's disingenuous to pretend one cannot see this point.

Slipshot762

#112
July 18, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: 1989;1140508What I'm saying here is that the legacy of Gary Gygax is Dungeons and Dragons. WotC have now put disclaimers on all of that stuff. It's disingenuous to pretend one cannot see this point.

This essentially then means that modern D&D is NOT D&D, it's a game loosely based on D&D. It's no more D&D than WoD is D&D.

Innocent Smith

#113
July 18, 2020, 05:16:09 PM
Quote from: Haffrung;1065612Take political correctness too far?



It's not massive. Progressive activists make up 8 per cent of Americans, and given the demographics of the hobby, maybe 25 per cent of active tabletop gamers. They're just extremely vocal (and organized) on social media. The great majority of gamers don't give a shit about any of this stuff. The question is whether publishers have the courage to aim their products at the silent majority, or whether they succumb to the smear campaigns and brigading of a zealous minority.

It's only 8% of the population, but it's 100% of the Cathedral.

Spinachcat

#114
July 19, 2020, 10:20:21 PM
I was going to pick up Mothership by Tuesday Night Games, but poking around their website, they're all about the Burn Loot Murder virtue signalling so that's cash saved to be spent elsewhere. Such a shame.

Mistwell

#115
July 19, 2020, 11:19:13 PM Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 11:23:35 PM by Mistwell
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1140476No, but I don't recall them ever calling out those who did, either.

REALLY not their job to police the Internet for assholes.

I think some people confuse "Jeremy Crawford calls out X" with "WOTC calls out X". Jeremy is the face of their rules stuff, but he's not with the PR or Marketing team of WOTC. They have people for that, they post a lot, and they don't mention politics much. Message boards make a lot out of Crawford political tweets, but I don't think the general D&D fan population at large sees them or cares about them much.

Stephen Tannhauser

#116
July 19, 2020, 11:57:46 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;1140738REALLY not their job to police the Internet for assholes.

Police the Internet for a-holes in general, no. Defend the creator of their core product and founder of the hobby from unmerited accusations? One would think they could spare at least a little marketing time and effort. Strikes me as supremely ungrateful, if nothing else.

QuoteI think some people confuse "Jeremy Crawford calls out X" with "WOTC calls out X".

Cancel culture in general works on the principle that the public statements and behaviour of a company's employees should be taken to amount to, or at least reflect, the position of the company. Those who espouse that principle shouldn't get to exempt themselves from it when it goes against them.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

Naburimannu

#117
July 20, 2020, 05:33:08 AM
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1140741Defend the creator of their core product and founder of the hobby from unmerited accusations?

What's unmerited? The claims I've seen boil down to "these materials use a number of tropes that were accepted at the time but are now considered racist", which makes sense to me.

QuoteWe recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

Source: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/07/dd-wizards-of-the-coast-adds-disclaimer-to-legacy-content.html

OK, the comma after "website" is unmerited, I'd expect better from a professional editor. But the rest of that is true, and I'm glad that they're keeping the content available.

Aglondir

#118
July 20, 2020, 12:14:55 PM
Quote from: Naburimannu;1140778What's unmerited? The claims I've seen boil down to "these materials use a number of tropes that were accepted at the time but are now considered racist", which makes sense to me.



Source: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/07/dd-wizards-of-the-coast-adds-disclaimer-to-legacy-content.html

OK, the comma after "website" is unmerited, I'd expect better from a professional editor. But the rest of that is true, and I'm glad that they're keeping the content available.

It's been decades since I read my AD&D books, so I am having trouble with remembering any specific examples of "ethnic, racial and gender prejudice." Other than the prostitute tables and the use of the pronoun "he" as generic, perhaps. Can you provide examples?
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