Quote from: The Butcher;815063Having evaded the IP-building, novel-publishing madness of 1990s TSR, The Known World/Mystara is as canon-light as they come.

There was a wee bit of metaplot: Wrath of the Immortals and the Poor Wizards' Almanacs. But easily ignored.

You mean the Known World that ended up with a dozen or so Gazeteers and two boxes sets further crowding and detailing the setting?

Novels are never cannon anyhow. I used to know some of the authors.

Quote from: Omega;815081You mean the Known World that ended up with a dozen or so Gazeteers and two boxes sets further crowding and detailing the setting?

Novels are never cannon anyhow. I used to know some of the authors.

Gazetteers are obviously "canon" in that they represent an official version of whats in the map. But gazetters, especially good ones like the Known World GAZ series, are actually useful at the game table. They tend to be descriptive, location-based, and don't really push an overarching metaplot.

Novels, on the other hand, tend feed the sort of detail-oriented fandom that interacts with the setting as readers first and gamers a distant second, and is liable to make itself a pain in the ass at the game table.

And of course, like all game materials, Gazetteers are optional. Novels, for whatever reason, build some sort of expectation that's trickier to divorce from fans' imaginations IME.

Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;815074The basic eras are:

1975-1981 - Pre-setting Era. Schick and Moldvay have their "Known World" shared setting, and Arneson has his "Blackmoor" setting, but - other than the Temple of the Frog in OD&D's Blackmoor supplement these aren't official TSR settings.

By 1981 I was working on my Third homebrew campaign setting, the one that came to be known as The Crystal Kingdoms.

The first campaign setting done I want to say in late 1977 to early 1978 was an earth continent done up with Crayons. There was no oceans, only a few rivers, and lakes, ...a few mountainous highland areas and lots of forested hills. There were only three or four major feudal Kingdoms, which included no outright evil kingdoms, but the mountains and deep forests were full of orcs and hobgoblins and other fell creatures, and on could find a tower or castle with an evil warlord or wizard in out-of-the-way remote locations. Usually exotic locations like on a cliff with a waterfall, or in a high mountain valley, or deep in a dark forest. This eventually ended up being about six 8-1/2"x11" hex maps, but there were only three maps where all the games and action took place. This setting featured lots of undead and massive orc and hobgoblin armies with evil wizards that invaded human lands. The Crayon setting was quickly retired however...

Also got the Judges Guild Wilderlands of High Fantasy about this time and would lead groups in adventures in and around the City-State of the Imperial Overlord and in Barbarian Altanis.

The second was done up from 78-79 and did include Romans and Greek Heroes and Egyptians, and vast inland sea with maybe a dozen kingdoms,  with Galleys, and Brigantines, and Pirates, and such. No one else in my gaming group was doing wilderness adventures, they were all still dungeon-delving so my wilderness sandbox game was fairly popular. This was also about six 8-1/2"x11" hex maps done in Colored Pencil & Crayon mix


The third was the best and was done from 79-81 was the Crystal Kingdoms, it was the first setting done with markers and ended up being fifteen 8-1/2"x11" hex maps done with felt tip markers and ink pens. This included Brandywine, a homey little valley with hobbits and good folk where the players originated from. This is the first setting with my epic Crystalmeer Elves, Elves that used magic to forge diamond-hard ultra-sharp crystal weapons.


This setting included everything I could rip off from traditional fantasy settings and included entire maps devoted to some of the great fiction authors. For example in the North was the great Frozen Kingdoms and great Ice Ships featured in many Michael Moorcock novels. I had a map in this setting for The Land, Lord Foul and the Illearth war, with Urviles and the enchanted creatures and peoples from Thomas Covenants worlds... I included a map of many Dragon eyries for Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern, and included a map for various locations from Andre Nortons books as well, especially Witchworld. There was an  Islands map that were very much like Earthsea, and you could find an entryway to Narnia, and there was a place where the Tsurranni had invaded from Kelewan and I had a place very much like Midkemia...


Some of what turned out to be the best places though, came from my own imagination. A great swamp full of mysterious pyramids, forgotten cities and rock strewn caverns where barbarian amazons would kill any party without a "female" leader... Brandywine, ever vulnerable composed mostly of  hills, and river valleys and farms, just crying out for young feudal lords to protect it...

...and all this had been featured in some way in D&D campaigns played by 1981.


I find it kind of humorous that something gets to be Secret by virtue of the fact that only a few people knew about it. It wasn't like anyone was trying to keep any secret with the Gazeteers, just that no one much paid attention to the origins of things because it wasn't really relevant. Back then, I didn't buy any of those campaign settings books because I simply didn't need them.

Quote from: The Butcher;815082And of course, like all game materials, Gazetteers are optional. Novels, for whatever reason, build some sort of expectation that's trickier to divorce from fans' imaginations IME.

My experience has been different; players expect source material explicitly written for the game to be exactly reflected in the game, to the point of rules lawyering, but are willing to make allowances for dramatic license on the part of the novel. Not that I have much experience in larger published settings, so maybe it's different for settings like this; are Gazetteers more peripheral or otherwise a special case?

They are optional, but they are very good quality, and each supplement kind of focuses on one ethnic human group.

Or non-human — Rockhome, Alfheim and the brilliant Orcs of Thar.

They're fairly peripheral, I think, not to mention significantly less likely to be read by your players than the average FR supplement.

Wow, there were alot more Mystarra novels than I thought. 10. Not counting any for Thunder Rift, Hollow World, or Red Steel. I know there was at least one Thunder Rift novel. From the author was how I learned why TSR or other company books and product often dont match.

Quote from: Scott Anderson;814704Gotta say, I'm shocked at how little interest this has garnered.

Really? I couldn't care less about someone else's game world.

Mystara is awesome, and this is an awesome story.

I think its the only major RPG setting that I can say I've read EVERY setting book to.  And between gazetteers and the boxed sets and the almanacs, there were quite a lot of them.

I have to agree totally.

  Mystara rocks.  My default starting location for D&D campaigns is always Karameikos.  We have had some spectacular adventures in Mystara.  It's neat to see how its genesis wasn't too different from any of the home campaigns folks brew up.