The joys of sandbox..

Simlasa · April 11, 2012, 03:11:45 AM

I think it's interesting that Silva posted a similar thread on TBP and no one there tried to dissuade him that the game he'd ran was a Sandbox.
Instead it's more like, "Yay! That sounds great, tell us what you did!"

Melan · April 11, 2012, 03:28:23 AM

They did have a huge definition-laden flamewar about improvisation recently, though.

LordVreeg · April 11, 2012, 08:57:52 AM

Quote from: silva;528881Ok Elf, now I agree.

Thats why I think its important for the GM and the players to know the setting well in this mode of play - the more the GM knows it, the more in the right direction his improvisation will be; and the more the players know it, the more they can let the GM "take a rest" and conduct the play by themselves.

I give this a thumbs up.
I often do a lot more prep than I need to, and sometimes other GMs think I overprep...but I've al;ways found out it just makes the world have more and better internal logic.

taknight · April 14, 2012, 08:49:19 AM

Quote from: Simlasa;528901I think it's interesting that Silva posted a similar thread on TBP and no one there tried to dissuade him that the game he'd ran was a Sandbox.
Instead it's more like, "Yay! That sounds great, tell us what you did!"

But on that same note, This wasn't a flamewar either. It looked like a nice, respectful conversation between freinds, even if you didn't all agree.

If I see flamewars, I walk away. I don't like to get involved in conflict. But I love a good heated discussion, and people here are good at that.

I'm also very happy to have a much better understanding about the different modes of play now.

The Butcher · April 14, 2012, 11:01:21 AM

silva, you bastard, if you'd taken us up on Bland Joe Dwarf's Castles & Crusades game, you'd have discovered this a year or so before.

Congratulations on the game, though, and welcome into the fold.

Black Vulmea · April 14, 2012, 11:41:35 AM

Quote from: Simlasa;528797Prior to playing WOW I think much of my gaming was a kind of improv-railroad.

And THAT's illusionism.

Quote from: Simlasa;528797That's a big area where RPGs scoop on MMOs... you get to go back to the village you saved and they are still safe, and sing songs about you.

Our love for him now, aint hard to explain,
The hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne!

silva · April 23, 2012, 08:52:44 AM

Just stumbled with this article by Justin, "Dont prep plots, prep situations", and its almost exactly what I did in the game.

P.S: hey Butcher, im going on vacation next week. maybe we could have some gaming? i will PM you.

DestroyYouAlot · April 23, 2012, 12:51:22 PM

Quote from: silva;532814Just stumbled with this article by Justin, "Dont prep plots, prep situations", and its almost exactly what I did in the game.

Good stuff. That matches my MO pretty well. The scenario is like a static agar medium, waiting for the PCs to blunder into it and turn it into an active culture.

silva · July 31, 2012, 08:43:02 AM

Quote from: Simlasa;528901I think it's interesting that Silva posted a similar thread on TBP and no one there tried to dissuade him that the game he'd ran was a Sandbox.
Instead it's more like, "Yay! That sounds great, tell us what you did!"

One True Wayism is stronger here than there, it seems.

Sigmund · July 31, 2012, 01:38:29 PM

Quote from: Simlasa;528797Oddly, I feel like a learned a good bit about running a sandbox game after playing World of Warcraft for a while. At least in the Disneyland approach it sets up. It really helped me see what I liked/didn't like in how a setting is built.
Wherever I went there were things to do... some bigger, some smaller. People to talk to who had problems that might eventually lead me to other people with bigger problems.
I could pretty much go wherever I wanted and there were few artificial barriers keeping me from the stuff that was way over my head. "See that big dragon way over there? Leave it alone!"
Meanwhile there were other folks going about their business, shopping in the shops, sitting in the inns... flying overhead on weird beasts. Trying to gather up groups of adventurers for tough missions.
Even though my starting abilities were small it felt like there was a great big world out there to explore... which was the main thing that kept me playing, until I'd pretty much seen it all.
Prior to playing WOW I think much of my gaming was a kind of improv-railroad.

The biggest non-sandbox thing about WOW was that not much ever changed (or changed very slowly). If you killed the big bear in the cave he would be back 15 minutes later. That's a big area where RPGs scoop on MMOs... you get to go back to the village you saved and they are still safe, and sing songs about you.

I'll quote this for truth, although for me it was original Everquest that inspired this insight. MMOs are great if basic examples of sandboxes, and also are good for showing the superiority of the TTRPG format for sandbox gaming.

Sigmund · July 31, 2012, 01:40:04 PM

Quote from: silva;528875I think its imporant to note that I did a little bit of prep in those 10 min I mentioned in the first post. Besides it, playing/GMing shadowrun for aprox 15 years now makes you memorize one thing or another.

So, even if I used a considerable dose of improvisation, the inspiring source for it was the very agendas and needs of the setting´s already existing entities (plus the players´) tempered by my own struggle to preserve plausibility and cause-effect. If this isnt sandbox, I dont know what is.

I get ya, and agree. SR's setting is already pretty much there, so I'd call your game a sandbox, although in the end the labels don't mean shit as long as you enjoyed it

Black Vulmea · July 31, 2012, 01:47:44 PM

Quote from: silva;566736One True Wayism is stronger here than there, it seems.

:boohoo:

Improvisation is great, and it's a really common tool in sandbox settings. It's also how referees can lead players to believe they are making meaningful choices when they're really not, which is what is called illusionism.

So improvisation in and of itself doesn't make a game a sandbox.

silva · July 31, 2012, 02:08:04 PM

Vulmea, I dont think we are on opposite sides here. Quoting myself..

QuoteIt really doesnt matter if the GM creates the encounters beforehand or simply improvise them. What matters is that the encounters respect the setting internal logic and the cause-effect relation between the characters actions and the settings´entities.

Its irrelevant how this "end" is achieved

.