Just had a great time with my old rpg group (we havent played together since.. dont know, college ? ). It was good ol´ Shadowrun in the 2050´s, a setting everyone in the group knows as the back of their hands.

So, nowadays I dont have much time to prep adventures and the like, and coincidently I just finished reading Apocalypse World, a game that advocates a more or less sandboxy style of gaming and even gives techniques for implementing it. So I tohught: why not try it? Well, I did - the night before I spent 10 min taking some notes and memorizing some tips from that book (including the one that says "Do NOT make/plan any adventure!").

So there I went..

And shit, it was awesome. The situations arose from the players own agendas and interactions with the setting, and I as a GM just reacted, adapted and improvised. In the end, we had a great web of plots and hooks and even a big adventure in place, and I never created/planned anything beforehand. You guys should seen the smile on my face..  

Quote from: silva;528562Just had a great time with my old rpg group (we havent played together since.. dont know, college ? ). It was good ol´ Shadowrun in the 2050´s, a setting everyone in the group knows as the back of their hands.

So, nowadays I dont have much time to prep adventures and the like, and coincidently I just finished reading Apocalypse World, a game that advocates a more or less sandboxy style of gaming and even gives techniques for implementing it. So I tohught: why not try it? Well, I did - the night before I spent 10 min taking some notes and memorizing some tips from that book (including the one that says "Do NOT make/plan any adventure!").

So there I went..

And shit, it was awesome. The situations arose from the players own agendas and interactions with the setting, and I as a GM just reacted, adapted and improvised. In the end, we had a great web of plots and hooks and even a big adventure in place, and I never created/planned anything beforehand. You guys should seen the smile on my face..  

That's not sandbox gaming, that's improvisational.

Quote from: One Horse Town;528564That's not sandbox gaming, that's improvisational.

I was always under the impression that "improvisational" gaming *was* sandboxing. But maybe I'm wrong.

If so, do tell the difference. I'm curious.

Quote from: taknight;528579I was always under the impression that "improvisational" gaming *was* sandboxing. But maybe I'm wrong.

If so, do tell the difference. I'm curious.

Difference is that in sandbox, stuff happens because...well, stuff happens. Stuff happens all the time.

When you are improvisationaling (zhe word!), stuff happens because the heroes are there.

At least that's how I see it.

Quote from: Rincewind1;528581Difference is that in sandbox, stuff happens because...well, stuff happens. Stuff happens all the time.

When you are improvisationaling (zhe word!), stuff happens because the heroes are there.

At least that's how I see it.

How does that work out differently in play?

Quote from: falcondawg;528582How does that work out differently in play?

Sometimes a quiet inn is just a quiet inn, not a place with dark secrets, if you catch my drift .

Quote from: Rincewind1;528585Sometimes a quiet inn is just a quiet inn, not a place with dark secrets, if you catch my drift .

Gotcha.  Guess I lean towards improvisational, myself.

Damn, and all my players think we're doing a sandbox.

I've never actually played a sandbox game. Yeah, I know... 20 years of gaming, and no sandbox.

But I have done free-form role playing, which is really more improvisational.

Quote from: taknight;528596I've never actually played a sandbox game. Yeah, I know... 20 years of gaming, and no sandbox.

But I have done free-form role playing, which is really more improvisational.

Sandbox has the certain high point of being high investment early, low later - after you have a stable set of NPCs, locations etc, etc, adding new is just fun rather then prep work .

But I like improvisational...ism? ing? And relatively heavy - plot games, but that's just me .

Quote from: Rincewind1;528597Sandbox has the certain high point of being high investment early, low later - after you have a stable set of NPCs, locations etc, etc, adding new is just fun rather then prep work .

But I like improvisational...ism? ing? And relatively heavy - plot games, but that's just me .

You can just say improv. We'll get the idea.

I like games that feel like there's a plot to them, even if that plot isn't evident right away.

So for an "improv sandbox," would you define areas that contain something interesting, but not detail exactly what is there?

Hex A23:  The Riverfork Inn.  Just an Inn.  25% chance of an interesting NPC or adventure hook.

Hex B2: Bandit camp.  40 bandits in a cave that connects to the river.

Hex D12:  Dead body.  Improv something interesting.

Hex R4:  Knight guarding a bridge over a stream or gully.  Improv why.

In very general terms, I always thought of a sandbox as a big area the PCs find themselves in where there is nothing stopping them from saying 'I want to go here!" or "I want to go there!" for no other reason than they feel like it.  Usually they have a map.

Improvisation is what happens when they go off the map.

A bit of improv goes well with a sandbox. If they keep going to boring places...

Quote from: One Horse Town;528564That's not sandbox gaming, that's improvisational.

Tomayto, Tomahto.

Quote from: Imp;528623If they keep going to boring places...

...they should find a better GM.

Quote from: silva;528562So, nowadays I dont have much time to prep adventures and the like, and coincidently I just finished reading Apocalypse World, a game that advocates a more or less sandboxy style of gaming and even gives techniques for implementing it. So I tohught: why not try it? Well, I did - the night before I spent 10 min taking some notes and memorizing some tips from that book (including the one that says "Do NOT make/plan any adventure!").

So there I went..

And shit, it was awesome. The situations arose from the players own agendas and interactions with the setting, and I as a GM just reacted, adapted and improvised. In the end, we had a great web of plots and hooks and even a big adventure in place, and I never created/planned anything beforehand. You guys should seen the smile on my face..  

Sounds like you had a blast - and sounds like the textbook definition of a low-prep sandbox. I don't know, not pointing at One Horse Town, but people tend to have this misconception that a sandbox game has to have everything defined before being put into motion. I would say that's not a necessary condition for having a sandbox game - it is perfectly okay to extrapolate from existing macro-detail:

Quote"The slums are known for a network of small plazas where all kinds of illicit products are sold" --> "You quickly find an alley next to Saint-Mére's bridge, where Raoul the Reliquarian is offering powders, philtres and ointments for one jar a silver denarius. He shifts as you approach, concealing something behind his ragged clothing while he greets you jovially, inquiring about your health and the ways his humble wares could improve it."

...or use some kind of "oracular" random method to fit extra content into an outline:

Quote"You encounter 2d6*10... that is, 50 brigands, and... the grim survivors tell you that they maintain a fully manned stockade out in the Brambles, at the end of the dry river bed. ... One man, grateful for letting him live, whispers to one of you: "Don't deny the stone what the stone asks, or you will never reach your goal!""

Aside from using someone else's product, a "full" sandbox where everything is set down at the start of play is usually not practical.