TheRPGSite

For those who didn't see this in whatever thread it was the other day...I don't know who this guy is (http://indiegamingscene.blogspot.com/), or even if its a parody or a parody of a parody, but he keeps making me laugh.  His last column:

Quote          Take The Advice You're Given!          

                                      Pfft!   So much for trying to reach out and pull mainstream gamers out of the swill they inhabit.   So on RPGnet yesterday, there was a thread about this guy who wanted advice for his Rifts game as far as technical advice for ships.   I was gratified to see so many "Rifts Sux!" responses, but I still wanted to throw in my two cents.   I don't know any specifics about ships, but I helpfully told him that his game was for total retards and that I felt he could do better by switching over to Polaris or Bacchanal.   Well, HE copped an attitude and said if he wanted to play Polaris or Bacchanal, he'd have darn well said so in the first place!   Well, that's the last time I offer him my help (not really, of course)!   Sometimes, people are embarrassed about letting their cultural and academic betters suggest a course of action for them, and I understand that.  It's the same problem we have with Middle America not voting for Democrats like our best and brightest actors tell them to.   But it still makes me sad knowing that guy could be playing something important and superior instead of what he and his group want.

Funny, funny stuff (especially for a self-admitted Rifts fan such as myself).

OMG I am enjoying this.

QuoteAnyhow, I’m helping him playtest his game Limbo Fever, which is all about the choices contestants in a dance competition face; basically, it all comes down to the question “how low can you go?”. We’re also using it to explore some heavy personal stuff. There was a moment where my Venezuelan limbo king dealt with his alternative sexuality, which was really a powerful moment at our table. I didn’t see the game going that way, but the Professor threw it in there.

This guy is tackling issues here!

I'm just going to assume that it's all a brilliant satire, and walk away slowly.

Correctism/Pseudo-Correctism/Wrongist/Bankruptism? :insane:

Definately sarcasism, and not entirely sutble at some points. Definately has it's funny momments though. :)

QuoteWrongist: Playing games that are the correct games incorrectly. Examples: having fun killing people in Dogs in the Vineyard, playing or translating Nobilis in plain English.

I'm fascinated to watch whether people think it's lampooning them or lampooning some other guy.  So far, mostly (but not universally) they seem to feel that it's lampooning some other guy.

Like, I read it, and I think "Oh, that is funny!  Look how ridiculous it is when you gather together all the misconceptions about how theorists act in one place.  Makes the folks who perpetuate those misconceptions look like right fools, don't it?"

And, though I hate to put words in anyone's mouth, my purely personal read on some of the responses has been that they are saying "Oh, that is funny!  Look how ridiculous it is when you take the arguments theorists make to their natural conclusion.  Makes the people who believe those things look like right fools, don't it?"

At least we're all agreed that it's funny :D

QuoteHe's so right when he compares himself and his fellow Forgites to the Beat Poets. In fact, you might say they "beat poets" any day of the week! Ha ha!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's lampooning the forgies.

Great stuff, wish I'd thought of it. :D :cool:

QuoteExamples: having fun killing people in Dogs in the Vineyard, playing or translating Nobilis in plain English.

Oh, poppycock: of course you can play Nobilis in plain English. You can even play Nobilis as Plain English.

Quote from: TonyLBAt least we're all agreed that it's funny :D

That's why its probably better if we don't really know what his angle is. :)

@TonyLB

I think that's why I find it as funny as I do. That the humour lies in a lot of places, intentionally or not.  Sarcasism can be a funny beast that way. ;)

My favorite after two minutes:

QuoteI had this amazing breakthrough while reading Dogs in the Vineyard this week—the characters are basically Mormons. Let's see Deadlands or Coyote Trail match that sort of diversity!

Heh heh.


RPGPundit

Quote from: Zachary The FirstFunny, funny stuff (especially for a self-admitted Rifts fan such as myself).

Dude, that site rocks.

The secret is, to keep a straight face. :)

 Just wait until we hear from people taking it all seriously.

Quote from: mythusmageJust wait until we hear from people taking it all seriously.

What do you mean?

More importantly, where can I get a copy of Limbo Fever?

Quote from: ReimdallWhat do you mean?

More importantly, where can I get a copy of Limbo Fever?

I think Dark Matter Studios should buy the rights to it.... :)

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI think Dark Matter Studios should buy the rights to it.... :)

Well, we do play a version of it when we're alone in the office...

Wait, is this thing on?

I am salivating at the thought of a dead-serious backlash to that site.  It is the only thing that could improve on the perfection.

I keep checking Story-games for a triumphalist Andy K post about how they got through to someone.

Quote from: fonkaygarryI am salivating at the thought of a dead-serious backlash to that site.  It is the only thing that could improve on the perfection.

Gamerdom is just too vast for it not to happen.  I'm waiting for him to put it in Ads/Open Promo at The Purple Site.

For sweet Jeebus' sake please anyone who finds any reaction to this please let us know about it on here.

RPGPundit

Quote from: ReimdallWhat do you mean?

More importantly, where can I get a copy of Limbo Fever?

Dude, people are already excitedly working on it, inspired by the post.  I bet it's going to be even more awesome than "Drowning & Falling" and "The Book of Erotic Fantasy" put together.  

The only question I want to know is when the D20 version is coming out.

Quote from: jhkimDude, people are already excitedly working on it, inspired by the post.  I bet it's going to be even more awesome than "Drowning & Falling" and "The Book of Erotic Fantasy" put together.  

The only question I want to know is when the D20 version is coming out.

If someone actually produces this, I swear I will run an AP thread.

At least it already has a theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxV_AkXDK0s)!

And "Limbo Fever" D20? Pshaw. "Exalted: The Limberials"

Quote from: RPGPunditFor sweet Jeebus' sake please anyone who finds any reaction to this please let us know about it on here.

Even if it is only a parody of a taking it for real, sure as this be the Internet it is acoming. :)

Yes, it is happening. In fact there's a thread on story-games right now, plus a child thread.

However, since I posted the link, after people were confused because the original poster edited it out, I don't want to be seen as "the guy who stirs up trouble between Story-Games and theRPGsite". So I'll coyly suggest that you hunt for it yourself, if you've got an account.

Oh, feh.  That's just teasing them.  

Quote from: RPGPunditFor sweet Jeebus' sake please anyone who finds any reaction to this please let us know about it on here.

Done.  The Story Games thread, we're feverishly working on the Limbo Fever design...  :D

Limbo Fever: How Low Can You Go? (http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1559&page=1)

Please. There can never be a D20 version of "Limbo Fever"!

This is a game about tackling thematic dancefloor issues and making powerful morality statements!

Quote from: Abyssal MawPlease. There can never be a D20 version of "Limbo Fever"!

This is a game about tackling thematic dancefloor issues and making powerful morality statements!

I think Cornell or the Professor there would take mortal offense to such a system befouling their indie cred. :p

jhkim, that links seems busted for me... :confused:

Edit:  Story-Games' entrance page graphic is so cheery, isn't it?  I like seeing it. :)

Quote from: Abyssal MawI keep checking Story-games for a triumphalist Andy K post about how they got through to someone.

Why ARE you such a jerk about this issue, anyway? I've never been into elitism, just "do it yourselfism", and have pretty much always ignored random theory BS, and even gone so far as to eliminate it to some degree from my site.  I heard you used to game with Clinton Nixon and were buddies and everything (even played with Ron Edwards, even? Or maybe I'm thinking of the wrong guy). What happened? Why all the bile?

And on top of that, why the one-sided hate for me, man? Seriously? I've done nothing to you; it's unfounded, and it's really, REALLY kinda creepy...

QuoteI don't want to be seen as "the guy who stirs up trouble between Story-Games and theRPGsite". So I'll coyly suggest that you hunt for it yourself, if you've got an account.

Yeah, there is really no need to start "game forum trouble". I mean, seriously, that would be lamer than the old "RPGNet vs Gaming Outpost" crap from the late 90s. It would be like watching two old half-blind guys in a fistfight. I don't condone badmouthing or 'attacks' or whatever on TheRPGSite, and while I dislike the Pundit I can't argue that he's sticking to his guns in creating the kind of place he said he would; and totally respect jrients for being the "good sheriff" and all. "Inter-forum trouble" is lamer than trying to be all gangsta when you're not, and that's totally a place that I seriously, SERIOUSLY do not wish to go at all.

Oh and BTW, while I got the prerequisite rise out of the blog, now I find it pretty hilarious. I've linked to it. I hope this guy keeps it going.

-Andy

QuoteAt least it already has a theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxV_AkXDK0s)!

Sick Bastard!
Actually, the line "how low can you go" Is from Chubby Checkers Limbo Rock, also greatly interpreted by the Champs and the Muppets.
That`s Music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMDZauyxbA

Here`s the furry-adventure-Spycraft2.0 version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z63SvpFZMD0

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI think Cornell or the Professor there would take mortal offense to such a system befouling their indie cred. :p

jhkim, that links seems busted for me... :confused:

Edit:  Story-Games' entrance page graphic is so cheery, isn't it?  I like seeing it. :)

Yeah, they hid the topic! What gives. I AM NOT APPEASED. I want to see them getting all sweaty trying to be ironic.

Oh well. I'm also eagerly waiting for the Cornell Richardson explanation of Go-Play. That one ought to be fun.

Quote from: Abyssal MawPlease. There can never be a D20 version of "Limbo Fever"!

This is a game about tackling thematic dancefloor issues and making powerful morality statements!

Look, I know it won't be as good as the original, but the players around here will only play D20.  But if I show them "Limbo Fever D20", they'll totally play it because they know that D20 means it has streamlined, fun mechanics.  

:p

Quote from: Andy KOh and BTW, while I got the prerequisite rise out of the blog, now I find it pretty hilarious.

By the way, I just saw the recent comments on this Blog.

I have upgraded the Blog Terror Alert from "Pretty Hilarious" to "Fucking Awesome".

Seriously, who is this guy? I smell Pundit. ;) In any case, it is some seriously funny shit now, and I'm looking forward to it continuing. I might even have to post some comments later!

-Andy

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI think Cornell or the Professor there would take mortal offense to such a system befouling their indie cred. :p

jhkim, that links seems busted for me... :confused:

Edit:  Story-Games' entrance page graphic is so cheery, isn't it?  I like seeing it. :)

Sorry about that.  Don't know what happened to the link, but at least I can show the awesome cover image that Jason came up with:

(http://www.bullypulpitgames.com/projects/goplay/images/limbo_fever_ad.jpg)

Quote from: jhkimSorry about that.  Don't know what happened to the link, but at least I can show the awesome cover image that Jason came up with:

(http://www.bullypulpitgames.com/projects/goplay/images/limbo_fever_ad.jpg)

Sweet mother of mercy.  I am in tears.

:killingme:

Quote from: jhkimSorry about that.  Don't know what happened to the link...

There are certain categories which you cannot view if you're not a member: Stuff like Forum Discussion, Little Ideas (where this link was), Directed Self Promotion, Links to Offsite Discussion, Sex party, etc.

-Andy

Hell, I will now argue that half the fun of Indie Gaming Scene is posting comments. The posts are such great material to start with.

I forsee a monthlong golden age, followed by six months of "it's just not the same" carping from those of us who were there first, man.  That will be followed by a long "I'm quitting teh net" entry, which will provoke AoOs from everyone with Fighter class levels within a 5 foot step.

Quote from: TonyLBI'm fascinated to watch whether people think it's lampooning them or lampooning some other guy.  So far, mostly (but not universally) they seem to feel that it's lampooning some other guy.

The site itself is obviously mocking the Forgers. But the comments on the posts are also mocking RPGPundit. I don't think they're mocking me, since I'm not well-known, but they're certainly mocking of the sort of things I say.

And it's all funny ;)

I mean there's this comment (http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=35189624&postID=116055738657727325):

Quote from: The RPG GriotI can't believe that you all listen to his Pig-Dog filth! Can't you see that any game that isn't d20 isn't SUCCESSFUL, and therefore it isn't fun?

    I would blow up a bus full of babies if it meant that one of you Filthy Pig-Dogs would stop inflicting your horrible games on the rest of us.

    More to come.

And also (http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=35189624&postID=116046765354419572),

Quote from: The RPG GriotAlways the Elite Pig-Dogs and their equating D&D to Walmart.

    Well, WALMART gives MILLIONS of people ALL over the world jobs! What about My Life with Master? That game didn't grant Anyone a job! In fact, the Pig-Dog author still works a day job: Therefore his game is unsuccessful!

    I am sick and tired of these elitists because they are not as smart as me but they think that they are. The games you play are totally insignificant, and nothing you ever say or do will influence ANYONE in the population. Ever. They will never change ANYTHING.

    BUT WE MUST STOP YOU NOW BECAUSE YOU ARE DESTROYING GAMING EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD!

And the rpg griot's avatar is one of Che smoking a cigar. And a "griot" is "A storyteller in western Africa who perpetuates the oral tradition and history of a village or family." Which, according to the recent interview of RPGPundit, is pretty much what a "pundit" is.

If that's not a parody of RPGPundit, I don't know what is.

I think the real mystery in all of this is whether this post by RPGPundit (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32772&postcount=15), where he seems to encourage deep examination of the motivations of a randomly generated pensioner, is ment as a parody or...... :eek: :forge:


:mischief:

Quote from: jhkimOh, feh.  That's just teasing them.  



Done.  The Story Games thread, we're feverishly working on the Limbo Fever design...  :D

Limbo Fever: How Low Can You Go? (http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1559&page=1)

The link doesn't seem to work.  Maybe its that you need to actually have an account with "storygames" to be able to read it (annoying of them, since I have no intention of signing up there).  Care to tell me if anyone has actually complained bitterly about it?

RPGpundit

Quote from: JimBobOzThe site itself is obviously mocking the Forgers. But the comments on the posts are also mocking RPGPundit. I don't think they're mocking me, since I'm not well-known, but they're certainly mocking of the sort of things I say.

And it's all funny ;)

You'll note that the guy who is parodying me isn't nearly as funny as the main blog itself.  Its obviously someone who felt burnt by the satire of the blog and is trying to fight fire with fire.  

But as for me, I'm flattered.  Again, it just confirms that I'm important enough for them to think that attacking me is somehow "fighting back" against the criticism of indie gaming in general.

RPGPundit

Quote from: blakkieI think the real mystery in all of this is whether this post by RPGPundit (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32772&postcount=15), where he seems to encourage deep examination of the motivations of a randomly generated pensioner, is ment as a parody or...... :eek: :forge:


:mischief:

Dude, you continue to work with the stereotype that advocates of traditional gaming are somehow against actual roleplaying.  There's nothing I like more than taking a character that is... well, a challenge to figure out, and figuring out what makes him tick and his motivations.  There's nothing "Indie" about that; that's what we all used to do back when you had to roll randomly for all your stats and then try to make a personality out of it.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditDude, you continue to work with the stereotype that advocates of traditional gaming are somehow against actual roleplaying.  There's nothing I like more than taking a character that is... well, a challenge to figure out, and figuring out what makes him tick and his motivations.  There's nothing "Indie" about that; that's what we all used to do back when you had to roll randomly for all your stats and then try to make a personality out of it.

No, what I'm doing here is continuing to work with throwing your own bullshit back in your face. Poking fun at your obscene foolishness. The absurdity of your diatribes.

Because, quite frankly, that's what I do best. I see someone selling snake oil and I feed it back to them. Don't like the taste of your own, hey? Well I'd expect you wouldn't.  But you know what to do about that, stop peddling crap.

Quote from: RPGPunditYou'll note that the guy who is parodying me isn't nearly as funny as the main blog itself.

Well, of course you would think that. I mean, if Dubya read a satire of himself and Bill Clinton yakking, he'd think Clinton's lines were heaps funnier, yeah?

We're laughing at you, not with you.

Quote from: RPGPunditIts obviously someone who felt burnt by the satire of the blog and is trying to fight fire with fire.  

Or perhaps someone who knows that both the Forgers and guys like you are crazy fuckers. You don't have to be gay to mock a straight guy.

@RPGPundit - continued...

Of course there is a second meaning, that being that a little scratch on the surface and underneath the way you game is pretty damn similar to a lot of what is talked about on The Forge. Because in spite of all this "Theorist" name calling from you they appear to focus fairly intently and pay close attention to what goes on at gaming tables. Both successful and not. To capture in rules for consistant recreation how to run a game successfully so people don't have to spend as much time dumping existing rules, making up new rules, and trying to tweak those rules to work.

Because face it, you care a good deal about getting the same kinds of results if not similar gameplay (EDIT:which particular type depending on your mood and motives at the time).  And the "Indies" aren't just a pack of pontifiers that are afraid to ever throw down the dice and "just game". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1DFsEQk7X4)

Quote from: RPGPunditThe link doesn't seem to work.  Maybe its that you need to actually have an account with "storygames" to be able to read it (annoying of them, since I have no intention of signing up there).  Care to tell me if anyone has actually complained bitterly about it?

Not at all.  They're eagerly working on the Limbo Fever design.  That's where I got the hilarious cover design for it.  I'm telling you, we have to work out the Limbo Fever D20 design quickly or we'll be edged out of this emerging market and leave it to the Swine!!!

Selected quotes:

QuoteWhatever your thoughts on the blog itself, I think we are all in agreement that the world needs a Story Game focusing on Latin American dance competitions. I suggest we design one, for if "Limbo Fever" did not exist, we'd have to invent it!

QuoteI'm kind of picturing a Latin American version of 'West Side Story', where rough'n'tumble gangs of sexually ambivalent youth bring their turf disputes to the one court that is universally respected: the court of the pole.

My suggestion would be to have a couple of attribute dicepools:

Limbo
Issue (your charcacter's big thing)
Street (measures cool/social competence)

with dice distributed amongst them.

When you Limbo you have to roll your dice against the Pole's Height. (Starts at 9.)

QuoteI also think the stats should all sound very similar:

Limbo - flexibility
Lambada - pure dance
Libido - obvious and necessary here
Libation - capacity for alcohol
Lambaste - verbal skills

QuoteI agree that this totally needs to be GMless, and that players should somehow get extra dice for despicable acts they perform (i.e. "How low can you go"). In keeping with the dance movie theme, the PCs should be passionate, free-spirited youngsters breaking out from the mold that the anti-dance establishment is trying to force them into. It's by breaking the rules of ordinary morality that they show their spirit.

It needs more pretentiousness, though. Help!! Maybe a bibliography which mixes philosophy texts and dance movies?!?

QuoteYou also need like three resolution mechanisms, including a Twister Mat.

I think the best part is Cornell actually responding to the comments.  It seems like everyone is having fun with it, for the most part.  While I agree it likely won't last forever, it should be fun while it does.

I so want to create a fake Blogger account for the professor-mentor guy and post in the comments:

"Thread's Closed."

;)

-Andy

QuoteMaybe its that you need to actually have an account with "storygames" to be able to read it (annoying of them, since I have no intention of signing up there).

Confirmed above. And yes, annoying for people who have no intention of signing up. It's a different forum with different rules, and different benefits for members.

He's at it again (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/And%20it%20suddenly%20clicked.%20Wow.%20I%20play%20indie%20games%20because%20they%20cater%20to%20me%20and%20my%20kind.%20I%20could%20no%20longer%20enjoy%20GURPS%20or%20Rifts%20because%20I%20had%20evolved,%20anymore%20than%20a%20grown%20man%20could%20find%20enjoyment%20in%20a%20dog's%20chew%20toy.%20And%20conversely,%20you%20can't%20expect%20GURPS%20players%20or%20infants%20to%20enjoy%20a%20fine%20wine,%20or%20a%20well-stocked%20library%20featuring%20Shakespeare,%20Noam%20Chomsky,%20and%20Anne%20Rice.). My favorite bits from today's entry:
 

QuoteHis name was Lionel Marker, and his black-frame glasses and ironic t-shirt immediately marked him as a man of intellect and bearing.

QuoteAnd it suddenly clicked. Wow. I play indie games because they cater to me and my kind. I could no longer enjoy GURPS or Rifts because I had evolved, anymore than a grown man could find enjoyment in a dog's chew toy. And conversely, you can't expect GURPS players or infants to enjoy a fine wine, or a well-stocked library featuring Shakespeare, Noam Chomsky, and Anne Rice.

That's one hell of a library. :p

We need a Pistols at Dawn for the Griot and Cornell.

The good thing is, it doesn't have to be the actual posters. Two sock puppet accounts would be just as good!

-Marco

Man, this is some hilarious stuff (the comments literally had me "LOL"ing, like the "I'm not saying you're dumb. You're just brain damaged"). I hope it goes on for awhile before the author finds it boring and quits.  I really should make that "Professor Curtis" blogger account to post comments with. :)

-Andy

Quote from: Andy KMan, this is some hilarious stuff (the comments literally had me "LOL"ing, like the "I'm not saying you're dumb. You're just brain damaged"). I hope it goes on for awhile before the author finds it boring and quits.  I really should make that "Professor Curtis" blogger account to post comments with. :)

-Andy

That could be classic. Curtis could rail against turn-coats who blur the line between indie and traditional gaming... implying that possibly the two aren't so impossibly far apart...

Cheers,
-E.

Quote from: MarcoWe need a Pistols at Dawn for the Griot and Cornell.

The good thing is, it doesn't have to be the actual posters. Two sock puppet accounts would be just as good!

-Marco

Well they have dueling blogs now.

http://therpggriot.blogspot.com/

And, well, sorry to say it Pundit but he's just as damn over-the-top funny. Kidding! I'm not sorry at all. :D

QuoteI so want to create a fake Blogger account for the professor-mentor guy and post in the comments:

"Thread's Closed."

LOL

Quote from: -E.That could be classic. Curtis could rail against turn-coats who blur the line between indie and traditional gaming... implying that possibly the two aren't so impossibly far apart...

Cheers,
-E.

Hmm...then again, Cornell might denounce "the impostor Professor"...

Fantastic--is the RPG Griot going to get banned?  That would be fitting. :)

Whenever someone totally nails Professor Kurtis, he probably responds by saying "Well, I could answer that but it would be rather like shooting fish in a barrel, so I will simply present no rebuttal."

The Griot thing is actually only funny because it presents such a primitive version of the Pundit. It isn't nearly as close-to-the-bone as Cornell Richardson because it comes out as just a sort of shallow and ham-handed caricature, and kinda goes for some cheap laughs. (Plus he doesn't get any great lines like "You could say they 'beat poets' anyday of the week..haha!") By looking at this Griot character, I can get a glimpse of how the author sees him... but all I'm getting is sheer terror.

Also, why does Griot balk at using the word swine to describe Forgies? Versimilitude, people. I ask for so little.

Quote from: Abyssal MawWhenever someone nails Professor Kurtis, he responds by saying "Well, I could answer that but it would be rather like shooting fish in a barrel, so I will simply present no rebuttal."

If you really want to be cruelly satirical, Kurtis should say: "Before I respond, I want to make sure you have followed the following conversations before we continue.  Let me know when you have finished the previous discussions and we will continue talking from there", then have random crazy links, like to Timecube, or the Wikipedia.

-Andy

Quote from: Abyssal MawBy looking at this Griot character, I can get a glimpse of how the author sees him... but all I'm getting is sheer terror.

:diarrhea:

But yes, it is definately over-the-top. Which is pretty tough given how over-the-top RPGPundit himself aims. A characture of a near-characture is going to come out pretty perverse.

QuoteAlso, why does Griot balk at using the word swine to describe Forgies? Versimilitude, people. I ask for so little.

I suspect he's using "Pig-Dog" instead of Thompson's hallmark "Swine" because he's using a south american revolutionary pic, not the H.S. Thompson pic that RPGPundit used to use?

P.S. I assume that the gaining an extra viewer every time he checks is a reference to counting his own viewings? Or do those automatically get culled from the blog stats? I'm not really up on this blog thing.

Quote from: blakkieP.S. I assume that the gaining an extra viewer every time he checks is a reference to counting his own viewings? Or do those automatically get culled from the blog stats? I'm not really up on this blog thing.

It's easy to get set up with a service like StatCounter.com that gives you reader data for your website.

Quote from: jrientsIt's easy to get set up with a service like StatCounter.com that gives you reader data for your website.

I ment that the act of him looking at the blog bumps the count by one. So it is only himself looking at himself that is upping his "readership".

Quote from: Andy KConfirmed above. And yes, annoying for people who have no intention of signing up. It's a different forum with different rules, and different benefits for members.

is "different" in italics supposed to mean the same as "anti-freedom"?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditis "different" in italics supposed to mean the same as "anti-freedom"?

Yes, Pundit; Andy hates your freedom.

:rolleyes:

If people don't denounce all anti-freedom forums then the terrorists have already won.

Quote from: TonyLBIf people don't denounce all anti-freedom forums then the terrorists have already won.

and it will be Bill Clintons fault.

Quote from: blakkieWell they have dueling blogs now.

http://therpggriot.blogspot.com/

And, well, sorry to say it Pundit but he's just as damn over-the-top funny. Kidding! I'm not sorry at all. :D

LOL

No, he isn't. He's a certain well-known member of my Rogue's gallery who's making a pathetically over-the-top attempt to insult me.

Pretty fucking sad, actually. I guess Eyebeams was feeling hurt that I kept making fun of how no one reads his blog.

Note also that he tries to present me as "sexist, antisemitic and queer provoking": I don't find that funny in the least.

You see, the difference between his parody of me, and the "indie gaming scene's" parody of indie gamers is that the latter is based on fact. Its a slight exagerration of things that people have actually done and said related to Forge gaming.  The guy who seriously compared Forge gaming to the "beat poet movement" for example.

On the other hand, most of what the "RPG-Griot" has said is just base slander.  Its crude.  I'm not saying that you couldn't make a good parody of me and what I say, but that this is not it, because its nothing other than character assasination.

RPGPundit

Quote from: blakkieP.S. I assume that the gaining an extra viewer every time he checks is a reference to counting his own viewings? Or do those automatically get culled from the blog stats? I'm not really up on this blog thing.

Its the writer trying to claim that I don't actually have a huge following; clearly being pissed off at the fact that I get 1200 hits a day to my blog, whereas he's lucky to get a handful of views; and that a single comment on one of his entries would be a near-miracle, while I get dozens and dozens a week.

He hates that I'm popular, so he's making fun of the fact that I take pride in my success while at the same time trying to claim that I'm not successful.

Like Maw said, its pretty pathetic, and all it shows is how scared the dude is of me.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditYou see, the difference between his parody of me, and the "indie gaming scene's" parody of indie gamers is that the latter is based on fact.

For fucks sake, get over yourself. You are acting exactly like you were expecting Story-time to. Whining about a good ol' ribbing. :pundit:

RPG griot is just not teh funny.
I`m a bit puzzled though that Ye Olde Pundithe takes it so serious.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenYes, Pundit; Andy hates your freedom.

:rolleyes:

The point is, what the fuck are you guys hiding? You're just taking moderation to a new level there, aren't you? I mean, why actually make it impossible for people to even READ what you write on there?  I get that to you guys freedom of speech is less important than being able to control said speech, but you also feel the need to prevent any heathen uncouth eyes from daring to glance at the brilliance of your words?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditNo, he isn't. He's a certain well-known member of my Rogue's gallery who's making a pathetically over-the-top attempt to insult me.

Pretty fucking sad, actually. I guess Eyebeams was feeling hurt that I kept making fun of how no one reads his blog.

Note also that he tries to present me as "sexist, antisemitic and queer provoking": I don't find that funny in the least.

You see, the difference between his parody of me, and the "indie gaming scene's" parody of indie gamers is that the latter is based on fact. Its a slight exagerration of things that people have actually done and said related to Forge gaming.  The guy who seriously compared Forge gaming to the "beat poet movement" for example.

On the other hand, most of what the "RPG-Griot" has said is just base slander.  Its crude.  I'm not saying that you couldn't make a good parody of me and what I say, but that this is not it, because its nothing other than character assasination.

RPGPundit

While, not as funny as indie scene, it is funny.:D

Quote from: SettembriniRPG griot is just not teh funny.
I`m a bit puzzled though that Ye Olde Pundithe takes it so serious.

Ah, I don't. But I am pretty disappointed at who I suspect wrote it. I expected a better effort from him.

I just would have enjoyed a parody that was actually done well, as well as the dude who did the indie gaming scene.

RPGPundit

Actually, I agree with Pundit that "sexist, antisemitic and queer provoking" is rather dodgy.  Without that stuff, you'd have a fairly funny parody.  With it, the whole thing looks like character assassination.

Quote from: RPGPunditThe point is, what the fuck are you guys hiding?

Our sand.

See, it's Andy's sandbox, and he only lets certain kids play in the sand.

The ones who won't piss in it.

Yea, it never ceases to amaze me how my opposition feels the need to make up absolute lies about me in order to feel good about themselves; its like "if we pretend he's actually hitler then his truth won't burn us"...

Pretty fucking sad.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Levi KornelsenOur sand.

See, it's Andy's sandbox, and he only lets certain kids play in the sand.

The ones who won't piss in it.

Nope, doesn't answer my question.
See, I already said, I GET that you want to control speech, and you want to control who is allowed to speak in the site itself; that's a given, because you need that kind of controlled truth-free environment for your theories.

But why prevent people from even being able to READ it?? Are you that scared of the criticism people will make of you? Is it that embarrasing that you'd rather no random lurker come across it and see the shameful things you've written?

RPGPundit

I'm registered on Andy's site, I've not quite worked out which threads are public and which aren't (because I've never bothered, it's not something that worries me) but it's a private board and Andy is entitled to set whatever rules on it he wants.

Hell, he could but in an automatic ban for anyone posting as Balbinus and while I would think it a touch pointed he would be well within his rights.

Quote from: RPGPunditSee, I already said, I GET that you want to control speech, and you want to control who is allowed to speak in the site itself; that's a given, because you need that kind of controlled truth-free environment for your theories.

Are you talking about Story Games?  Dude, that site is way more laid back than either the Forge or RPGnet.  And I honestly never expected a Brother of your intelligence to hit some other group with the "well then what have you got to hide?" stick.  It's just a private board, not a secret society bent on overthrowing gaming.

Quote from: RPGPunditNope, doesn't answer my question.
See, I already said, I GET that you want to control speech, and you want to control who is allowed to speak in the site itself; that's a given, because you need that kind of controlled truth-free environment for your theories.

But why prevent people from even being able to READ it?? Are you that scared of the criticism people will make of you? Is it that embarrasing that you'd rather no random lurker come across it and see the shameful things you've written?

RPGPundit

I have not once been censored on Andy's site, and I am fairly critical of the theories.  There isn't anything embarassing there either, I have no idea why some stuff can't be read and don't much care but it isn't because of all the threads criticising trad gamers or whatever, it's a pretty friendly place and I think that would not be encouraged.

That said, as best I know there isn't a policy of moderation or anything like that, other than don't be a dick.

Quote from: RPGPunditBut why prevent people from even being able to READ it??

Honest, non-flippant answer:

I have no idea.  That's just how the stuff is set up.

My puffed-up ego impulse is to say "To stop people from cherry-picking MY good ideas."

My lesser impulse is to say "So nobody outside will know my secret shame, my burning embarrasment, in the thread where I admit that I do not know how to play Jungle Speed."

What the hell is Jungle Speed?

Quote from: jrientsWhat the hell is Jungle Speed?

A game...

There are cards, and a wooden thingy.  Apparently people grab the wooden thingy when cards are played.  But not everyone, and not every card.

And a lot of Story-Gamers love Jungle Speed, so much so that were their love greater, it would be prohibited by Deuteronomy.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenAnd a lot of Story-Gamers love Jungle Speed, so much so that were their love greater, it would be prohibited by Deuteronomy.

That's pretty coincidental, but also pretty true. It's just cause one person plays, infects the next person, infects the next person, and so on and so on.  It just so happened that between GenCon and some Midwest gatherings, a lot of infection went down.

Anyway, here's the game:



(http://nicosmos66.free.fr/blog/images/jungle1.gif)

It's a reflexes game that uses cards, invented by French Hippies who originally used the cards as coasters.  Everyone flips one card up, going in a circle, and when the same shape appears twice (regardless of color, color is just there to fuck you up) you grab the totem. If you grab the totem, you toss your cards. First one out of cards wins that round.  That's the absolute basics, there's special cards that do certain things and stuff.

It's a great game for families, or especially for friends who are comfortable trash-talking each other.

-Andy

Quote from: Andy KThat's pretty coincidental, but also pretty true. It's just cause one person plays, infects the next person, infects the next person, and so on and so on.  It just so happened that between GenCon and some Midwest gatherings, a lot of infection went down.

Anyway, here's the game:



(http://nicosmos66.free.fr/blog/images/jungle1.gif)

It's a reflexes game that uses cards, invented by French Hippies who originally used the cards as coasters.  Everyone flips one card up, going in a circle, and when the same shape appears twice (regardless of color, color is just there to fuck you up) you grab the totem. If you grab the totem, you toss your cards. First one out of cards wins that round.  That's the absolute basics, there's special cards that do certain things and stuff.

It's a great game for families, or especially for friends who are comfortable trash-talking each other.

-Andy

we used to play a drinking game something like this back in my teens, but it involved spoons.

Quote from: Andy KIt's a great game for families...

A game where people end up breaking each other's fingers? :ponder:

Quote from: blakkieA game where people end up breaking each other's fingers? :ponder:

You have your family traditions, other people have different traditions. I remember a Sicilian family from my youth that used to enjoy chasing each other around the house with kitchen knives, screaming horrid imprecations in gutter Italian.

-clash

Quote from: jrientsAre you talking about Story Games?  Dude, that site is way more laid back than either the Forge or RPGnet.  And I honestly never expected a Brother of your intelligence to hit some other group with the "well then what have you got to hide?" stick.  It's just a private board, not a secret society bent on overthrowing gaming.

Unless they're conducting initiation rituals in those threads they keep from the public eye, then you really do have to ask what are they hiding? Why are some threads visible, and others only for the "insiders"?

It serves no purpose other than to exclude.

RPGPundit

Quote from: flyingmiceYou have your family traditions, other people have different traditions. I remember a Sicilian family from my youth that used to enjoy chasing each other around the house with kitchen knives, screaming horrid imprecations in gutter Italian.

-clash

Hey,

I resemble that!

Since we have tend to talk with our hands (with a knife in one of them sometimes) and the language is a bit harsh sounding, I can understand why people think we are trying to kill each other. :D

Quote from: RPGPunditUnless they're conducting initiation rituals in those threads they keep from the public eye, then you really do have to ask what are they hiding? Why are some threads visible, and others only for the "insiders"?

It serves no purpose other than to exclude.

RPGPundit

Pundit - ususally I am on your side, but I have to point out... A Mason says this????

-clash

Quote from: flyingmicePundit - ususally I am on your side, but I have to point out... A Mason says this????

-clash

You're forgetting the essential difference here; a story-gamer likes to think he's special, a freemason likes to play at being special.

The Freemasons have all that ho-ha because it's fun.

The Illuminati have no ho-ha because they don't exist.

The International Alan Conspiracy has no ho-ha beacuse we can't organize worth shit.

The worst thing I can say about story games is that the style of the forge has made it neccessary for them Thematicians. The Forge definitely is no hang-out place, so I really understand why story-games is needed for them.
Sad reason, though.
BTW, signing up really is not hard, and I would doubt that Pundit would be rejected.

Quote from: RPGPunditIt serves no purpose other than to exclude.

Oh, but it doesn't stop there!

The board also features a "whisper" function, allowing private discussion between any two people!

Wheels within wheels!  Secrets and exclusion abound!

Quote from: RPGPunditIt serves no purpose other than to exclude.

Absolutely. Also, both RPGNet and TheRPGSite also exclude random guests from posting in topics, too. Exclusion!

BTW, for those who are afraid of the grand conspiracy of Story Games, let me break it down:

Here are the topic categories which are open:
*The Stone Tablet (rules and the like)
*Games and Gaming (general discussion)
*Gamecraft: Evolution (used to be called "Gamecraft: Tips and Tricks to evolve your game" or something, but it was too long and broke the css). Basically GM and Player advice and the like to make your games better.
*Actual Play (actual play, quick blurbs, etc)

The above is 70% or so of the traffic. Here's the rest.
* The Sandbox (for testing new forum gadgets, code etc)
* Forum Discussion (issues relating to the forum, namely outages, or major code updates)
* Meetups (to protect the identities or emails/phone numbers of people oragnizing area meetups)
* Links to Gaming Discussion (links to cool RPG discussions on other sites, like RPGNet, TheRPGSite, Livejournal or whatever)
* Little Ideas (this is where people are free to post small or bite-sized ideas they had for game design or game playing, for critique/review by other members)
EDIT: I forgot:
* Directed Self-Promotion: Where people post links to their latest art, work, game, etc.

...Where's the conspiracy? There is none.

I don't really have anything more to say on that subject:

I think TheRPGSite rocks because Jrients, who I personally think is a nice guy, is an excellent moderator and discussion mediator, and becuase Pundit, who I personally think is an asshole, really is doing what he said he would do with the openness and the general gaming discussion and everything. Kudos is deserved for both of you.

And that is why I therefore absolutely refuse to start or participate in some sort of "East Sidaz - West Sidaz" Forum War Gangstas lameass bullshit between RPGSite and S-G, which is what Pundit is obviously trying to set off here. It is possible to enjoy more than one forum with more than one moderation style, just as I can appreciate Italian food one day and Indian food another. And that fact is not worth starting some meaningless rivalry.

-Andy

We're like Tupac over here.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenOh, but it doesn't stop there!

The board also features a "whisper" function, allowing private discussion between any two people!

Wheels within wheels!  Secrets and exclusion abound!

*sends a private message to Levi via TheRPGSite messageboard*

QuoteI think TheRPGSite rocks because Jrients, who I personally think is a nice guy, is an excellent moderator and discussion mediator, and becuase Pundit, who I personally think is an asshole, really is doing what he said he would do with the openness and the general gaming discussion and everything. Kudos is deserved for both of you.

Yah, I've said that before and I'll agree with it again. Well not the Jrients part, because I didn't even notice he was a moderator here. Which I guess makes him a really good one? :D

Quote from: Abyssal MawWe're like Tupac over here.

all shot to hell and still releasing hits?:D

Well, since Andy doesn't seem to mind, I will go ahead and post a link to the first reaction thread over at Story Games:

Misguided, or Wrong? (http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1551&page=1#Item_58)

If you could read it (which you may not, because it's in one of members-only sections), you'd see that there are a few people who were upset because somebody was being mean to their tribe. Which I take as similar in kind (not sure about magnitude) to Pundit's concern that WW or the Forge is destroying gaming.

Quote from: McrowHey,

I resemble that!

Since we have tend to talk with our hands (with a knife in one of them sometimes) and the language is a bit harsh sounding, I can understand why people think we are trying to kill each other. :D

Oh, I never thought they were trying to kill each other - they never actually used the knives - it was just thier way of saying they cared. As a true unadulterated WASP, I thought it sweet, and wished my family had some similar - though perhaps less violent - method. :D

-clash

Quote from: blakkie*sends a private message to Levi via TheRPGSite messageboard*

We can't post those *in* the thread here, though.  There, we can.

Quote from: blakkieWell not the Jrients part, because I didn't even notice he was a moderator here.

Dude, you just totally made my day.

QuoteI pity you, in a totally non-judgemental way.

LOL!

Quote from: Levi KornelsenWe can't post those *in* the thread here, though.  There, we can.

Hrmm, never been on a messageboard like that. I would expect to find that disorientating. But then I don't use AIM or it's ilk, so I'm not used to compartmentalizing text conversations.

"You're from Edmonton? Cow-town here." <--- I guess this would be an example of something that would get stuffed in a private post there? Is it tagged private at the post level, or is it done more like you'd do spoiler tagging here?

Quote from: Zachary The FirstFor those who didn't see this in whatever thread it was the other day...I don't know who this guy is (http://indiegamingscene.blogspot.com/), or even if its a parody or a parody of a parody, but he keeps making me laugh.  His last column:



Funny, funny stuff (especially for a self-admitted Rifts fan such as myself).

I'm a bit late to the party here, but that blog is hilarious.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenWe can't post those *in* the thread here, though.  There, we can.

Really? I thought it was a different name for the Send a Private Message option, but it seems I was wrong.

Quote from: Mcrowall shot to hell and still releasing hits?:D

I see myself as a Shug Knight-like enforcer. Like, I probably dangle Blakkie over a balcony or something, and then I arrange to have jrients killed in Vegas.

(http://www.threadless.com/product/435/minizoom.jpg)

(http://www.threadless.com/product/435/view1.jpg)

Quote from: Abyssal MawI see myself as a Shug Knight-like enforcer. Like, I probably dangle Blakkie over a balcony or something, and then I arrange to have jrients killed in Vegas.

Yah, I so picture you as the heavy hitter enforcement type. Or something.
(http://www.jest.com/images/wigger2big.gif)
:rolleyes:

Quote from: blakkie"You're from Edmonton? Cow-town here." <--- I guess this would be an example of something that would get stuffed in a private post there?

Yup.

And you just mark the comment as "whisper to X", and they (and only they) will see it in a funny color - looking at it on my stylesheet (you can pick your own color scheme), whispers are pink boxes.

Oh, I am SOooooo making a Story-Games gang symbol. Like two cupped hands on top of each other that spell out an "S" or something.

No inter-forum rivalry, cause that's lame, but definitely a gang symbol, because that's Awesome.

Quote from: Andy KNo inter-forum rivalry, cause that's lame.

I disagree, because it's agreat excuse for a Dance Off!

(http://xba.xanga.com/f328062ac067846165550/b31142317.jpg)

rpol.net has a similar function to the whisper. Having used it for years running games over there, I often find myself missing it on other boards.

The battle is joined! (http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/dammedancing01.gif)

(http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/dammedancing01.gif)

Quick, get the Limbo Fever rules!

Dear lord, my eyes!

(http://www.oddtodd.com/35110-dancing_fat_guy.gif)

Nobody can withstand the challenge.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenYup.

And you just mark the comment as "whisper to X", and they (and only they) will see it in a funny color - looking at it on my stylesheet (you can pick your own color scheme), whispers are pink boxes.

Or in my case every time you publicly post then go back and edit to make it a whisper.

For such a simple technology it's amazing how much I struggle with it.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstQuick, get the Limbo Fever rules!

Best. Forum War. Ever.

OHHHH!  Look at the latest entry!

http://indiegamingscene.blogspot.com/ (http://indiegamingscene.blogspot.com/)

You can submit your own questions to be answered by the Professor! I say we brainstorm something good to submit.  

Like "All my players want to play is games like Dungeons and Dragons, Mutants and Masterminds and A Game of Thrones. How do I prove to them all that Nicotine Girls is better?"

-Andy

EDIT:
Also, just noticed that the Official Reaction is out:

http://www.xanga.com/RPGpundit/537438764/item.html (http://www.xanga.com/RPGpundit/537438764/item.html)

.

Quote from: flyingmicePundit - ususally I am on your side, but I have to point out... A Mason says this????

-clash

Note; I said "assuming they're not doing initiation rituals".  Masonic secrecy is mainly to protect the initiatory nature of freemasonry. If you're telling me that Storygames is actually an iniciatory school of mysticism and that they have secret mysteries that are only for those who have been through the appropriate trials, then I'll accept that (I'd think it'd be pretty fucking wierd to tie it into story-gaming, but hell.. probably no wierder than tying it into a stone-worker's union).

Somehow, though, I'm guessing that's not what goes on in there.

RPGPundit

What you're saying here is that our utterly bizarre reasons for desiring privacy trumps their own utterly bizarre reasons for wanting privacy.  It's a classic "my shit doesn't stink" position.

Quote from: RPGPunditIf you're telling me that Storygames is actually an iniciatory school of mysticism and that they have secret mysteries that are only for those who have been through the appropriate trials, then I'll accept that

Well, it wasn't.

whispers works very well actually, it's nice that in the relevant thread someone can post to me alone for a clarification or a follow up query or something in a private way.

I think it directly contributes to the mellow feeling there.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenWell, it wasn't.

Yeah, now look what you did.

Quote from: Andy KAbsolutely. Also, both RPGNet and TheRPGSite also exclude random guests from posting in topics, too. Exclusion!

Yeah, but anyone can view any forum of the regular forums on here (the only exception being the admin forum, which, you know, makes sense, and is also incredibly dull).

QuoteBTW, for those who are afraid of the grand conspiracy of Story Games, let me break it down:

Here are the topic categories which are open:
*The Stone Tablet (rules and the like)
*Games and Gaming (general discussion)
*Gamecraft: Evolution (used to be called "Gamecraft: Tips and Tricks to evolve your game" or something, but it was too long and broke the css). Basically GM and Player advice and the like to make your games better.
*Actual Play (actual play, quick blurbs, etc)

The above is 70% or so of the traffic.

And yet, absolutely any time I've ever heard of anything happening at the Story-games site that I thought to check out to read, its been in a "blocked" thread.

And while I thank you for the breakdown of which areas are private and which aren't, you still haven't really explained WHY you chose for some of these conversations to be not-viewable by non-registered people.

QuoteI don't really have anything more to say on that subject:

I think TheRPGSite rocks because Jrients, who I personally think is a nice guy, is an excellent moderator and discussion mediator, and becuase Pundit, who I personally think is an asshole, really is doing what he said he would do with the openness and the general gaming discussion and everything. Kudos is deserved for both of you.

Well, thanks.
Might I add one compliment to the "Story Games" site: Kudos to you on actually phrasing the context of your site as being about a genre of games that are not RPGs (related to, perhaps, but not RPGs) and making it clear that you recognize the distinction.
You know, I would have no problem with the whole "theory" crowd if they stuck to that; if they invented a new and exciting (to them, anyways) hobby, borne out of RPGs the way RPGs were born out of wargames, that they enjoy (some while still enjoying RPGs as well, while others having no interest in RPGs; the way some RPG players also love wargames, and others don't), and writing and talking about that on their own forum; instead of trying to call Storygames "RPGs" and trying to force conversation about storygames in forums dedicated to RPGs.  It would be a much more peaceful co-existance.  So, you know, in principle I'm way more on board with the position you've staked out with "Story-games" than the position others have staked out vis-a-vis trying to co-opt RPGs.
I just don't get the need to make half your site unviewable to those of us who don't really want to register, and whom I suspect you'd agree have no business being there.

QuoteAnd that is why I therefore absolutely refuse to start or participate in some sort of "East Sidaz - West Sidaz" Forum War Gangstas lameass bullshit between RPGSite and S-G, which is what Pundit is obviously trying to set off here. It is possible to enjoy more than one forum with more than one moderation style, just as I can appreciate Italian food one day and Indian food another. And that fact is not worth starting some meaningless rivalry.

I'm really not trying to do that. Honest. I'm just befuddled by the "screen of mystery". I appreciate that you have made a place for people to go talk about these things you and they enjoy talking about; and I wouldn't go there to cause trouble; just as I appreciate that you come here to (mostly) talk RPGs and not to cause trouble.

So fine, ultimately if there's really no reason and its just how you set the site up, whatever. I suppose that's better than trying to prosletyze or something.

RPGPundit

Quote from: blakkieYah, I've said that before and I'll agree with it again. Well not the Jrients part, because I didn't even notice he was a moderator here. Which I guess makes him a really good one? :D

The very best kind.

That's what I want from anyone who has any kind of "official role" here; its not supposed to be a reward or a status-symbol or shit like that.
I don't even really want myself to be seen as the "moderator", though that may be harder because of course I do play a bigger role in kind of directing the overall tone of the site; but that's different than being seen as a guy who tries to push people around with his title.

In the end, to me a huge part of the success of this site hinges on the fact that you and everyone else on here feels like they can argue with me, call me an asshole if that's what you think I am, etc., and not fear that I'm going to use my "authority" to punish you for it.

RPGPundit

Pundarg, do you want to come and talk about story games with us? How sweet!

Stay tuned for the AP of MLwM....

Quote from: RPGPunditIn the end, to me a huge part of the success of this site hinges on the fact that you and everyone else on here feels like they can argue with me, call me an asshole if that's what you think I am, etc., and not fear that I'm going to use my "authority" to punish you for it.

Now if only you'd pull that big pride-stick out of your ass and admit Griot's posts/blog is funny too. :p  Sure there are inaccuracies, such as the part about having your own site to have total control over the content.  But that's just freaking nitpicking, and missing a good chunk of the humour of it.

Quote from: jrientsWhat you're saying here is that our utterly bizarre reasons for desiring privacy trumps their own utterly bizarre reasons for wanting privacy.  It's a classic "my shit doesn't stink" position.

My point being, brother, that we can talk about anything related to Freemasonry, discussion on core masonic values, etc etc.
The secrecy we have, where we have it, is for a reason.

I don't get the reason why a forum that is about debate and discussion would not want that debate or discussion to be read by outsiders.  It seems to be a totally different situation to me.  It would be like if "The Man Who Would Be King" was something only Masons were allowed to read/watch.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditI'm really not trying to do that. Honest.

Actually, I'm kinda glad to hear that, as sometimes I feel like there's some hyenas about shouting for it to happen. Like in those prison scenes where there's two guys, and all the huge burly apes around them are screaming "fight! fight! fight!" while banging on bars.

So, thanks I guess.

-Andy

Quote from: blakkieNow if only you'd pull that big pride-stick out of your ass and admit Griot's blog is funny too. :p

I notice he's taken out the more insulting parts, but it still reads like sour grapes more than anything else. Like I said on my blog, it can be very hard to make a parody of an individual you hate without letting the hate overcome the humour. I think part of what ended up making the "indie gaming scene" blog so funny, without seeming like sour grapes, is that instead of choosing to create a "ron edwards parody" or something like that, he invented a whole persona whole-hog, complete with a backstory, without trying to turn it into a mockery of a specific guy.

I  know that if I were, for example, to try to parody (say, for example) Bruce Baugh, it'd be very hard for me to be able to discern the line between humour and mudslinging, though at least I'd try not to make shit up that has nothing to do with Baugh's real personality and views.  But even without doing the latter, I admit that it'd probably fail as humour because it'd be too hard to discern for myself the line between parody and attack.

Although, since I mention it, you might want to check out my parody of George W. Bush (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2228), that I wrote up last year after Hurricane Katerina.  I leave it to yourself to judge whether that went over the line or not, but it did end up being one of the only blog entries of mine to get published all over the web in non-RPG related sites (I found it in the wierdest places, including a south african newspaper for some reason).

RPGPundit

Quote from: Andy KActually, I'm kinda glad to hear that, as sometimes I feel like there's some hyenas about shouting for it to happen. Like in those prison scenes where there's two guys, and all the huge burly apes around them are screaming "fight! fight! fight!" while banging on bars.

Yea, I had a feeling that a lot of people expected theRPGsite to be all about that. And I don't have a problem with criticizing other sites for various reasons, but I made it clear right from the very start of this great experiment that if all the RPGsite ended up doing was becoming an "anti" site (whether it was anti-rpg.net, or anti-forge, or anti-whatever) I would consider it a failure.  Fortunately, I think its become much more than that; in no small part due to the aforementioned fact that people who downright can't stand me still feel (correctly) that they can post here.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditMy point being, brother, that we can talk about anything related to Freemasonry, discussion on core masonic values, etc etc.
The secrecy we have, where we have it, is for a reason.

I don't get the reason why a forum that is about debate and discussion would not want that debate or discussion to be read by outsiders.  It seems to be a totally different situation to me.  It would be like if "The Man Who Would Be King" was something only Masons were allowed to read/watch.

The forums are like that for marketing reasons? So they'll get you to sign up. Then once you are over that hump, in the door so to speak, they are counting on impulse posting to take over? :insane:

Outside of that bizzare thought I too personally can't fathom a reason why a board would be set up that. :idunno: But then I don't get the secretive nature of the Mason innitiation either.....but I sure as hell don't bust their balls about it.

Quote from: RPGPunditMy point being, brother, that we can talk about anything related to Freemasonry, discussion on core masonic values, etc etc.
The secrecy we have, where we have it, is for a reason.

I don't get the reason why a forum that is about debate and discussion would not want that debate or discussion to be read by outsiders.  It seems to be a totally different situation to me.  It would be like if "The Man Who Would Be King" was something only Masons were allowed to read/watch.

Okay, you don't get it.  Yesterday I blogged about how I don't get "story" as a game concept at all.  Some folks will never get the Masonic veil of secrecy either.  Some folks don't get why I like playing a guy who murders orcs for beer money.  So what?  Demanding a deeper explanation than "we like it that way" and/or implying a sinister motive for such behavior just makes you come off as a hypocrite and a dick.  I'd rather wish Story Games the best of luck and get back to things we do over here.

QuoteI just don't get the need to make half your site unviewable to those of us who don't really want to register, and whom I suspect you'd agree have no business being there.

Is this sentence a case of "asked and answered?"

Quote from: RPGPundit...that if all the RPGsite ended up doing was becoming an "anti" site (whether it was anti-rpg.net, or anti-forge, or anti-whatever) I would consider it a failure.

See, that's why I bust your balls about the worst of your reactionary rants. Especially when they are aimed extremely poorly. When you are pretty much defined by an "anti" then you ain't much, and that would be a waste.  You don't need to claim that everything that was ever touched by The Forge is tainted fruit when all that is really called for is to kick the occasional member of it in the crotch when they are so despartly in need of it. :)

Quote from: Zachary The FirstThe battle is joined! (http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/dammedancing01.gif)

(http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/dammedancing01.gif)

Quick, get the Limbo Fever rules!

Oh, damn you!  DAMN YOU TO HELL!

I can't stop looking.  I don't even want to.

If "Gay Karate Man" isn't a class in Limbo Fever d20, then I will hunger strike until it is.

Quote from: fonkaygarryOh, damn you!  DAMN YOU TO HELL!

I can't stop looking.  I don't even want to.

If "Gay Karate Man" isn't a class in Limbo Fever d20, then I will hunger strike until it is.

Don't go hungry!!  Get on over to the Limbo Fever D20 Design (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2216) and post about it as a prestige class!!

Take this Story-Games!
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f231/Magalette/weird%20shit/dancingbanana.gif)

Don't make me unleash my cabbage patch!

Quote from: Andy KYou can submit your own questions to be answered by the Professor! I say we brainstorm something good to submit.  

Like "All my players want to play is games like Dungeons and Dragons, Mutants and Masterminds and A Game of Thrones. How do I prove to them all that Nicotine Girls is better?"

Nice one! Here's another one:
"Why won't they let me use Breaking the Ice as the rules for our dungeon crawl campaign?"

Let me and the boys break it down for you in a festive real old-school way.

(http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/anin-bd.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/anin-bd.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/anin-bd.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/anin-bd.gif)

It appears that Story-Games has knuckled under in the face of extreme Hampster Birthday Dance pressure. The Veil has been pierced. That Limbo Fever design thread is now viewable without an account.

A little victory dance music if you'll please, Maestro. :rimshot:

(http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/gerbil-l.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/gerbil-l.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/gerbil-l.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/gerbil-l.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/gerbil-l.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/gerbil-l.gif) (http://www.hamsterdance.com/images/gerbil-l.gif)

(http://xbe.xanga.com/7e7c12e151d3482739295/m47938225.jpg)

Hmmm. I'm a little disappointed by the Official Verditct:

http://www.xanga.com/RPGpundit/537438764/item.html (http://www.xanga.com/RPGpundit/537438764/item.html)

http://indiegamingscene.blogspot.com/ (http://indiegamingscene.blogspot.com/) = "A brilliant parody of what
they're really like".

http://therpggriot.blogspot.com/ (http://therpggriot.blogspot.com/) =  "A thinly-veiled attempt at brute
insult, that... slanders me without cause".

Personally, I find them both hilarious and at the same time both more than a little distasteful at times.  The both have lame parts (like the constant hinted elitism of the former, and the constant repitition of the same stuff over and over in the latter), and I do agree that the first is slightly funnier than the second.  But man, both are still spot on parodies in places.

I guess it's just not as funny when you're the one targeted. I guess it's like the South Park syndrome; at first, Matt and Trey only targeted rednecks, conservatives, religion, Bush, more George Bush, etc.  Then, in keeping with the "Everyone's a target" theme that they stand by, they started making fun of liberals, the environmental causes, animal rights, vegetarians, free-thinkers, AA, actors, etc. (I'm a liberal, BTW, and have strong ties to AA; I still thought the AA episode had some gold in there)

It was only then that the pirmarily liberal (and again, thassa me) audience started going, "Oh hold on now, wait a minute, NOW they've just gone Too Far. It's just not funny anymore, it's lowbrow and repulsive."

Au well.

-Andy

:drillsergeant: You cannot qualify dance-offs in harsher terms than I will. They are cruelty, and you cannot refine it. I know I had no hand in making this competition, and I know I have made more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace.

I on the other hand, gleefully take full responsibility. Nothing less than total victory will be had by therpgsite in this epic conflict. Story-Games has just gotten served!

I STILL DO NOT HAVE ANY GODDAMN GRELL STATS FOR ROLEMASTER.

Now they know: nobody puts baby in a corner.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstThe battle is joined! (http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/dammedancing01.gif)

(http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/dammedancing01.gif)

Quick, get the Limbo Fever rules!

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c220/rvilliers/Humor/youdestroyedmychildhoodpost-it.jpg)

Cornell has deleted the faux Professor's comments.

Boo and such.

That is all.

Ohhh, that's too bad. But I guess it's because they already had something planned. I bet they wouldn't mind a second Other professor coming in to drop some wisdom, but probably just not the "named" professor.

BTW, did you catch the new RPG Pro guy, and his blog? Dude, that's out of goddamn control funny stuff right there.  I think we all know a guy or two JUST like that.

Holy shit:

QuoteOne of the really hard things about designing RPGs is going too far ahead of your time. The D-Minus system uses subtraction, skills, and attributes. Skills and attributes are there as touchstones. Gamers love the familiar, but they also crave new experiences. Therefore, I added in subtraction. That's very innovative. I wonder how many thousands of gamers always wanted to subtract numbers, but instead had to add them? Once again, D&D just COMPLETELY and UTTERLY does everything it can to BUNGLE the process of creating new gamers. Where's the subtraction in D&D I ask? Just try to find it.

You can't.

Man, this guy's good.  He's probably better than both the original dude AND the Pundit-analogue.

-Andy

Quote from: Andy KOhhh, that's too bad. But I guess it's because they already had something planned. I bet they wouldn't mind a second Other professor coming in to drop some wisdom, but probably just not the "named" professor.
 
BTW, did you catch the new RPG Pro guy, and his blog? Dude, that's out of goddamn control funny stuff right there. I think we all know a guy or two JUST like that.
 
Holy shit:
 
 
Man, this guy's good. He's probably better than both the original dude AND the Pundit-analogue.
 
-Andy

Heh, "subtraction". :p

Yea, well, there's nothing anyone loves more than mocking would-be industry "Insiders".  I mean shit, be they proxies who love traditional games, swine who despise the rpg "industry", or guys who are REALLY in the industry, the loser-type this guy is parodying with "RPG Pro" (the guy who has a couple of titles under his belt, and thus believes himself to be infinitely more significant than he is; and can't stop name-dropping and making appeals to his "rep" to back up his arguments) is universally despised.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditYea, well, there's nothing anyone loves more than mocking would-be industry "Insiders". I mean shit, be they proxies who love traditional games, swine who despise the rpg "industry", or guys who are REALLY in the industry, the loser-type this guy is parodying with "RPG Pro" (the guy who has a couple of titles under his belt, and thus believes himself to be infinitely more significant than he is; and can't stop name-dropping and making appeals to his "rep" to back up his arguments) is universally despised.
 
RPGPundit

That's true--the mocking "Insider" guy will have near-universal appreciation, I think.
 
This whole theme should be fun while it lasts.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstThis whole theme should be fun while it lasts.

Yeah man, it's not even over yet, and I already feel nostalgia for it.

Also, I wish to thank you for saying "theme" instead of "meme". Memes and tropes, I fucking hate those words. Speakadaengulish.

QuoteThis whole theme should be fun while it lasts.

Which, I'm guessing, will not be much longer. Its been entertaining, but these blogs will get old fast, all of them.

Though again, of the three, the first one has the best change of going the distance; because its got its own original backstory. The "RPG Pro" one is meant to be a generic stereotype of a very speicific kind of guy, that will only be interesting as long as it keeps thinking of things we all hate about would-be insiders; while the "rpgpundit parody" is purely and solely created by someone who hates me to try to discredit me (note his latest blog entry, where he tries to argue that I don't have the sort of readership I really do).
You gots to love envy.

But hey, you got to give the guy credit on one note: in 24 hours he's managed to get more attention on his blog than Eyebeams has managed to get on either of his two blogs in months.

RPGPundit

Lessons in satire:

See, if you want to be funny, you need great lines:

RPG Pro had one today: (http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=35189624&postID=116067651263322744)

"When you live on the edge like me, you're used to society hating you for buying Gang of Four albums, daring to stand up to George Bush's theocrats, and eating foods that working class people can't even pronounce, like chimichangas. I live my life like I live my work: beyond the scope of reason!"

Whoever is writing these characters is simply brilliant.

edit: that line totally makes me suspect Mike Mearls.

The question and answers with the "professor" are particularly funny.  So ok, the Professor is a personal parody of Ron Edwards, no doubt. Making people read Paul's Letter to The Ephesians before he can answer their question. Priceless.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThe question and answers with the "professor" are particularly funny.  So ok, the Professor is a personal parody of Ron Edwards, no doubt. Making people read Paul's Letter to The Ephesians before he can answer their question. Priceless.

RPGPundit

That was awesome. And what the hell was up with reading the "Fetzer Vineyards Mission Statement" (http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v7n2/fetzer.html)?  :D  I also enjoyed:

QuoteAs the forefront of independence and individualism in gaming, we must be certain we are in lock-step at all times concerning theory.

...as well as where he "senses" a lot of social conflict from a guy's 4-line letter about what he should play next. :p

I dunno--I think the Professor is more a parody of how gaming theorists are viewed in general, but today there were definitely a couple of digs at Ron E.  Say what you will, IMO, it's still more good-natured than 99% of the criticism out there.


:popcorn:

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI dunno--I think the Professor is more a parody of how gaming theorists are viewed in general, but today there were definitely a couple of digs at Ron E.

That "eclectic" list would have been funnier if AndyK hadn't spoiled it here. :p In fact I think some of the rough suggestions here about paradying Ron Edwards was better than the blog's actual execution. :(

I like "catpiss man" in the comments:

QuoteI CAN HELP YOU GO AFTER YOUNGER CHILDREN. I MADE SOME SAILORMOON COSPLAY OUTFITS FOR THAT. YOU CAN WEAR THE SAILORJUPITER AND THE PROFESSOR CAN WEAR TUXEDO KAMEN WHICH IM REALLY PROUD OF BECAUSE IS ENTIRELY CANON INCLUDING THE STAINS HE GOT IN THAT THIN H LINE STRIP.

IM WELL VERSED IN COMIC ARTICLES LIKE THIN H-LINE #012 "FIGHTING EVIL BY MOONLIGHT 1" I MENTIONED AND I DONT HAVE ANYTHING ELSE MEANINGFUL TO DO WITH MY TIME EXCEPT MAKING JEWELERY OUT OF FRUITLOOPS TO SELL OUTSIDE THE COMIC BOOK STORE SO I CAN BUY MORE MTG BOOSTERS DO YOU KNOW ANYBODY THAT CAN GET ME SOME BLACK LOTUS RARES FOR FREE BECAUSE I SPENT MY ALLOWANCE THIS MONTH ON THE PARIS HILTON CD.

It probably would have been even creepier if the post was just:

"I CAN HELP YOU GO AFTER YOUNGER CHILDREN."

But we all know Catpiss Man just can't shutup if you let him start talking. :)  Also the strip number and name for The Thin H-line should have just rolled off his tongue like he was reading his grocery list at the first reference to it instead of refering to it as "THAT THIN H LINE STRIP".

Gaming Report has fallen for RPG Pro:

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=22456

Jesus, now I'm just waiting for this shit to hit the Purple Site.

OMG.

Someone please tell Gaming Report it's a fake.

:rotfl:

Quote from: JongWKOMG.

Someone please tell Gaming Report it's a fake.

:rotfl:

That was an anonymous report there, and the way it's worded I'm guessing it's actually someone trolling trying to hook a few live ones. :)

Hmmm.  I wonder if Samuel Clemens (http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/Owlbears.php) has a blog... I should call him up and see. :p

Quote from: SettembriniGaming Report has fallen for RPG Pro:

That's not all it looks like they've fallen for:

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=22464&mode=thread&order=0 (http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=22464&mode=thread&order=0)

Is this the work of John Kim, mayhap? :)

QuoteRPG News (http://www.gamingreport.com/index.php?catid=1): Limbo Fever RPG Wiki Launched
Posted 2006-10-14 23:08:19 by damonwhite (http://www.gamingreport.com/)
(http://www.gamingreport.com/images/topics/otherpublishers.gif) (http://www.gamingreport.com/search.php?query=&topic=51) An Anonymous Reader (http://www.gamingreport.com/user.php?op=userinfo&uname=An%20Anonymous%20Reader) Reports:  Professor Kory Curtis is proud to announce that John H. Kim has begun the Limbo Fever RPG Wiki, a collaborative effort to adapt and benefit from the revolutionary and much-lauded gamng theory musings of Prof. Curtis.

Limbo Fever is an intense thematic experience, one that dares to ask the question "how low can you go?". In addition, it is suggested for heavy use in

dealing with personal conflicts and societal themes.

Both the original "indie" version and a lesser, plebian d20 version are being created. Journey to the Limbo Fever Wiki and join in making serious, high-impact creative choices and transcending from mere Game into Art.

The Limbo Fever Wiki may be found at:
http://wikihost.org/wikis/limbofever/ (http://wikihost.org/wikis/limbofever/)

For an Actual Play session regarding Limbo Fever and all the best in Indie Gaming, visit:
http://indiegamingscene.blogspot.com (http://indiegamingscene.blogspot.com)

In case anyone think the indiegamingscene blog is pure parody, and exaggeration, take this recent comment (http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=1579&page=1#Item_19) on story-games. It was a thread about "your least favourite jargon terms." Other people mentioned "Narrativism", "shared imaginary space", okay, reasonable so far. Merten comes up with "fun." Fun? Yes, it's a word he doesn't want to hear!

Quote from: Merten"Fun" is something that's promoted as the central reward of roleplaying, the end result, the stuff why people play. "Fun" also indicates something that you enjoy, that you have fun, that is cool and exciting and all that. "Fun" is a misleading term, promoting light-hearted, funny stuff and misses a whole lot of darker, more emotional and in a sense, intense stuff. "Fun" can be used as a safety net for not going where the disturbing, psychological, emotional issues lay, or at least keep them at arm's length; players are having "fun" while their characters are not. It's not "fun" to be angry, jealous, to hate something, cry, cheat, or to have someone you care to die, but it's still very meaningful and very rewarding. "Fun" is a double misnomer because some games look into these issues and still talk about "fun".

"Fun" is also something connected to "everybody participates", "everyone gets the his place in the limelight", "everyone has an equal say what happens" which is then a whole another discussion because people think what's "fun" for them is "fun" for everyone, and no other kind of "fun" can exist.

Sound familiar?

Quote from: Cornell RichardsonIt was amazing—I learned that day that sure, I might be having fun playing Dungeons & Dragons, I might really like the system, and might find it comparatively easy to find folks I wanted to play it with, but, he, asked, was I exploring heavy social and morally relative themes with my gaming? At this, I could only hang my head in shame.

Any volunteers for gaming with Merten? He gets angry if you say you want to have "fun"...
 
Merten? Is that you, man? No... no... nooooo!

:maniac:

Jeez.  Sometime truth is not only stranger than fiction, it's much worse. :brood:

Quote from: Zachary The FirstThat's not all it looks like they've fallen for:

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=22464&mode=thread&order=0 (http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=22464&mode=thread&order=0)

Is this the work of John Kim, mayhap? :)

Goddamn it!  That's terrible!  "Lesser, plebian d20 version"?!?  :grumpy: Limbo Fever D20 is twenty times more balanced and playable than the original, plus it's the only version that most gamers will actually play.

That's why the blog is funny, because its based on truth.  Whether its comparing Ron Edwards to Jack Kerouac, talking about brain damage, claiming that "fun" is something you want to keep at arms length in good games, or generally looking down on regular gamers, that's all part of the package for the Theory crowd.

Likewise, the guy who parodied me wasn't funny because too much of his humour was untrue (claiming I was a racist homophobe with no fans).

RPGPundit

Quote from: jhkimGoddamn it!  That's terrible!  "Lesser, plebian d20 version"?!?  :grumpy: Limbo Fever D20 is twenty times more balanced and playable than the original, plus it's the only version that most gamers will actually play.

So that wasn't you, huh?  You DO have to admit, it fits with what we know of Prof. Curtis and Cornell.

OK, speaking seriously for a moment.  

No, that wasn't me posting on GamingReport.com, but (obviously) I don't disapprove.

As for tasteless, shameless lies in humor... I don't have a problem with it.  Now, if anyone were to actually believe, say, that Ron Edwards was a community college dropout, or that RPGpundit were a bigot on the basis of the parody blogs, then I would mock and insult the morons who think that.  But parody is open season, and it would be pointless and silly for (say) Ron to respond to the blog by saying plaintiffly "But I really do have a degree."  In general, there's nothing more pointless than trying to logically explain why one thing is funny and another thing isn't.

Quote from: RPGPunditThat's why the blog is funny, because its based on truth.  Whether its comparing Ron Edwards to Jack Kerouac, talking about brain damage, claiming that "fun" is something you want to keep at arms length in good games, or generally looking down on regular gamers, that's all part of the package for the Theory crowd.

Likewise, the guy who parodied me wasn't funny because too much of his humour was untrue (claiming I was a racist homophobe with no fans).

RPGPundit

Dude, worrying about that makes it look like you can dish it out but can't take it, unfair as that may well be.  Don't be upset someone said shitty things about you, be glad you're making sufficient impact that someone wants to say shitty things about you.

QuoteDude, worrying about that makes it look like you can dish it out but can't take it, unfair as that may well be. Don't be upset someone said shitty things about you, be glad you're making sufficient impact that someone wants to say shitty things about you.

Repeated for truth.

Quote from: JimBobOzOther people mentioned "Narrativism", "shared imaginary space", okay, reasonable so far. Merten comes up with "fun." Fun? Yes, it's a word he doesn't want to hear!

Dude ... to my eyes you seem to be radically misinterpreting Merten there.

He says (roughly) "I have troubles when people use the term 'fun', because it is often a cover for a different argument.  It's not so much saying 'We want to have fun' as saying 'If you want something that we don't want then you're anti-fun.' "

You say (roughly) "See!  He doesn't want to have fun!"

Irony, man.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing Merten's complaining about?  Do you see something in his quote that actually says that he doesn't want to have fun, or for other people to have fun?

Quote from: TonyLBDude ... to my eyes you seem to be radically misinterpreting Merten there.

He says (roughly) "I have troubles when people use the term 'fun', because it is often a cover for a different argument.  It's not so much saying 'We want to have fun' as saying 'If you want something that we don't want then you're anti-fun.' "

You say (roughly) "See!  He doesn't want to have fun!"

Irony, man.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing Merten's complaining about?  Do you see something in his quote that actually says that he doesn't want to have fun, or for other people to have fun?

Actually I kinda agree with Merten's argument, because I saw a serious attempt at redefining the word "fun" (and thus jargonizing it) by the indie crowd. As in this post- if you follow it as far as comment #4 (http://lumpley.com/comment.php?entry=159), you can see the actual bait and switch.

Quote from: StuartHmmm.  I wonder if Samuel Clemens (http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/Owlbears.php) has a blog... I should call him up and see. :p

Thank you so much for that link!  Owlbears is awesome!

I so totally played stuff like this, re-enacting He-Man episodes or whathevu...and while coming home today, a small boy was "hiding" in a tree, and wanted my €s. He must have seen Robin Hood or something.

I smiled.

I would have played along, but he didn`t bother to come down from the tree, so I kept walking. he was afraid to jump, it seems. Guts earn money, so he went empty handed...

Quote from: Abyssal MawActually I kinda agree with Merten's argument, because I saw a serious attempt at redefining the word "fun" (and thus jargonizing it) by the indie crowd. As in this post- if you follow it as far as comment #4 (http://lumpley.com/comment.php?entry=159), you can see the actual bait and switch.

JimBob actually said it best, once, when he talked about fun, satisfaction, and other forms of enjoyment.

I can't find that post, but it was good stuff.

Which is why I'm baffled by his jumping at Merten.

"Fun", in the sense of playful, bantering, light-hearted stuff, isn't always what we're after.  And redefining words is a Dumb Idea.  So more words are good.

Quote from: Abyssal MawActually I kinda agree with Merten's argument, because I saw a serious attempt at redefining the word "fun" (and thus jargonizing it) by the indie crowd. As in this post- if you follow it as far as comment #4 (http://lumpley.com/comment.php?entry=159), you can see the actual bait and switch.

Yea, that's some pretty shocking stuff right there.  I remembered when I first read it.

I love how the Theory crowd goes around claiming "we don't judge your fun", and there is none other than VINCE FUCKING BAKER doing precisely that, stating explicitly that games that fail to "explore theme" are inferior to other games; and that fun, in fact, does not mean "having a good time gaming"; it means "doing a profound exploration of deep issues", and anything else is "NOT FUN" by definition.

Again, theory guys? This is why you're despised.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditAgain, theory guys? This is why you're despised.

Because people who want to despise us consistently take things way the hell out of context and inflate them into gigantic straw-men to beat on?

Yep.  Knew that.

But that was not taken out of context at all. Several  Cornell Richardeson types went right from there and crowed that they had solved the mythical "20 minutes of fun in 4 hours problem".

Of course, they mainly did this by redefining the word fun into "thematic", but I also recall seeing advice to quit your gaming group if 'they' didnt understand what "fun" was', or if you were the only guy who had a problem (as so many forgers are), you were advised to drop them, because they weren't actually having fun. There's the famous "99% of all gamers don't actually have fun" claim, and the strangely non-ironic thread about how indie authors should get special treatment at conventions because they know so much about fun. (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=17883.0) (note the last two bullets).  This was funny because the original motivation of the thread is a complaint that their panels and slots don't actually get much attendance.

So when I say "there was a serious attempt to redefine the word fun", I feel like I'm pretty much completely in context.  

And as for straw man argument? Listen, we are whomping the crud out of this thing here! Not because it's a "straw man", but simply because it is a bullshit idea that needs to be taken down with extreme violence.

If it were a straw man, then you'd concede my argument. You'd be all "well of course we can't redefine fun.. thats ridiculous..."

For the love of FUCK people.  You got theory discussion in a humor thread.

Stop it.

Quote from: Abyssal Mawclaim, and the strangely non-ironic thread about how indie authors should get special treatment at conventions because they know so much about fun. (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=17883.0) (note the last two bullets).  This was funny because the original motivation of the thread is a complaint that their panels and slots don't actually get much attendance.

Holy fucking christ! :jaw-dropping:

These guys are far more batshit insane out of touch with reality than even I could ever have imagined.  

"Our games sell less and people aren't interested in coming to our panels, therefore we should get treated better than any other GMs even though no one knows who the fuck we are, and should even be treated better than real industry people because we provide the greater service to cons of allowing people to bask in our intellectual glory!"

I mean, holy shit on a stick, and people call ME an egomaniac!

RPGPundit

Quote from: Abyssal MawIf it were a straw man, then you'd concede my argument. You'd be all "well of course we can't redefine fun.. thats ridiculous..."

Oh, dude, of course we can't redefine fun.  That's ridiculous.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw...the strangely non-ironic thread about how indie authors should get special treatment at conventions because they know so much about fun. (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=17883.0) (note the last two bullets).

Jeezus H. Christ. Is he actually fucking serious? "Con organizers! Twelve guys in the crowd have heard of me! I demand staff, ass-kissing, free gifts, and special rights above and beyond other con GMs because I'm too fucking busy running my scheduled games - which no-one attends - to bother with your petty 'rules'."

Man, between this and my recent brush with Swinedom, sometimes those of you in Pundit's Magic Castle From Which We Sallied Forth With d20 (Without Ever Having The Tiniest Fucking Thing To Do With It) To Forever Save The World Of Gaming And Free The People From The Tyranny Of White Wolf start to seem like you're somehow making sense.

Second time I've seen you mention this brush with Swinedom. Clearly you want to talk about it, so what's up?

Quote from: RPGPunditHoly fucking christ! :jaw-dropping:

I got so mad at that post that I started a new thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2300) just to rail against it.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenJimBob actually said it best, once, when he talked about fun, satisfaction, and other forms of enjoyment.

I can't find that post, but it was good stuff.

Which is why I'm baffled by his jumping at Merten.

Since Garry flipped out at theory discussion in this thread, it seemed only polite to start a new thread on "fun" and "fulfilment" (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=35591).

Quote from: Elliot WilenSecond time I've seen you mention this brush with Swinedom. Clearly you want to talk about it, so what's up?

Eh, wouldn't say I -want- to talk about, it's just that I was pretty shocked to discover they were real. It's like if one day, out of the blue, the government aliens the bearded filthy guy on the street corner is yelling about suddenly landed in a black helicopter and really did extract an implant from his brain.

But there's a thread on the Big Purple about showing a lot of people who've never seen them before what RPGs are like, and quite a few people want them to be shown things that even I'm willing to say aren't RPGs. One in particular even goes so far as to decry showing them a game that uses things like dice and a GM as "tired". It was astounding to realize none of them thought that demonstration would have to end with "Most roleplaying games, however, are absolutely nothing like what I've showed you here".

I can link people if they'd like it, or put it in a new thread, or something. I was just sorta...reeling from the discovery that they were real.

Quote from: Christmas ApeI can link people if they'd like it, or put it in a new thread, or something. I was just sorta...reeling from the discovery that they were real.

Swine is a bit of a red herring in terms of it's usage IMHO because most often it's used against a specific kind of playstyle/game rather than against folks of any kind (of playstyles) who think that their gaming is superior to others.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RSwine is a bit of a red herring in terms of it's usage IMHO because most often it's used against a specific kind of playstyle/game rather than against folks of any kind (of playstyles) who think that their gaming is superior to others.

This one's both. That specific playstyle, and one of the major advocates of that playstyle claiming flat out that his playstyle is better than the "tired" play that made this fucking hobby, and which millions of gamers enjoy every time they sit down at a table. It's the suggestion that people who don't know anything about roleplaying should have it demonstrated with something like PTA or something else that would "demonstrate how gaming has evolved and is contributing to the creation of narratives". Not showing them what the hobby is, but what the Swine would -like- it to be.

Please provide a link.

Because you asked so nicely. (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=291229) - CAUTION. This link goes to an rpg.net thread.

Quote from: Old Scratch/rpg.netGee. How about adding something new and innovative that rpgs are developing and introducing, rather than tired elements that have been rehashed over and over and over again? After all, presumably you want to bring something original to the presentation and demonstrate how gaming has evolved and is contributing to the creation of narratives. Presumbably narratives other than just zombie attacks. Maybe even artsy dramatic street theater like narratives.

Ooh, tasty.

The internet meta-discourse is truly screwed.

Wow.

Quote from: Christmas ApeThis one's both. That specific playstyle, and one of the major advocates of that playstyle claiming flat out that his playstyle is better than the "tired" play that made this fucking hobby, and which millions of gamers enjoy every time they sit down at a table. It's the suggestion that people who don't know anything about roleplaying should have it demonstrated with something like PTA or something else that would "demonstrate how gaming has evolved and is contributing to the creation of narratives". Not showing them what the hobby is, but what the Swine would -like- it to be.

Eh.  In my experience, it's quite common that when someone asks for suggestions about a game for X, there are a small but vocal set of posters who will trot out their favorite RPG and insist that it is the absolute best for that purpose.  I don't think it says anything one way or the other about the system itself, but a fair bit about the poster.  

Still, that thread was about giving a 20-minute demo to a university class who are specifically working on 'interactive narrative design'.  (See thethread's first post (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=291229).)  So I think there was at least some excuse to drag out Primetime Adventures (PtA) or something like it.

Quote from: jhkimEh.  In my experience, it's quite common that when someone asks for suggestions about a game for X, there are a small but vocal set of posters who will trot out their favorite RPG and insist that it is the absolute best for that purpose.  I don't think it says anything one way or the other about the system itself, but a fair bit about the poster.  

Still, that thread was about giving a 20-minute demo to a university class who are specifically working on 'interactive narrative design'.  (See thethread's first post (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=291229).)  So I think there was at least some excuse to drag out Primetime Adventures (PtA) or something like it.

John's right, people routinely recommend the same system they recommend every time in threads like that.  I'm surprised nobody suggested Exalted.  The indie guys are as prone to that as anyone else, but no more prone to it.

And in that particular case I think an indie game probably was what was needed given the nature of what was being pitched.  Not necessarily, but I can see why people would trend towards indie answers.

I'll post on the Luke thing in a bit, I'm a bit unpersuaded by the approach taken in it but I need to read it more slowly to take any view.

Quote from: BalbinusJohn's right, people routinely recommend the same system they recommend every time in threads like that.  I'm surprised nobody suggested Exalted.  The indie guys are as prone to that as anyone else, but no more prone to it.

Indeed.

Quote from: BalbinusAnd in that particular case I think an indie game probably was what was needed given the nature of what was being pitched.  Not necessarily, but I can see why people would trend towards indie answers.

I don't see as easy to make a 15' demo using D&D or Rolemaster as some of the rules - lighter games. I also agree that we must bear in mind the target of the activity: if it's shared storytelling, indie games are better. If the target is to show RPGs, mainstream will do better.

Actually I think a good argument could be made (in fact I'm making it) that the traditional RPG approach which Old Scratch rails against would serve the class quite well, possibly better than the narrative stuff. Why? Because for people with no gaming experience, the simulative "you are your character" approach without metagame mechanics is more radical than the storytelling approach.

That said, it would probably be best of all to demonstrate a bit of each.

Quote from: Elliot WilenThat said, it would probably be best of all to demonstrate a bit of each.

Oooh, they play noblemen who get wasted by orcs and then have to deliver dying soliloquies...