I've pondered this on and off for a long time and I can't help but come to the conclusion that the biggest impact the internet has had on our hobby has been commercial. Online vendors like Amazon are picking up the slack for the dying LGSs. Otherwise I think most people don't patronize enough of either web forums or RPG related blogs/podcasts for the impact to reach deep into the average RPGers table. My guess is most folks play their games without ever even thinking about searching for such places online.

Then again, I put this out to see if anyone out there sees this differently from me.

R&D for DnD claims* to have benefitted greatly from the intense level of feedback from players and consumers. Anyone else see this?

*Or maybe this is forumers claiming that DnD R&D benefits from their feedback. Wouldn't put it past them. In any case, can't remember where I got this impression.

Quote from: JamesVOnline vendors like Amazon are picking up the slack for the dying LGSs.

And/or the cause of them.

Personally, I have always seemed to be the most "plugged in" to the net fora on gaming. The typical player doesn't seem to get that much out of net fora and websites.

I think this is changing slowly. One net-savvy player can slowly inform a group. My players were amazed and immediately wanted copies when I started using the Sage HTML SRD during play to quickly look things up.

I also tend to agree that there is an improvement of the feedback cycle where it is permitted to happen.

I also think that the internet has value for the average gamer, and it becomes ironic after a point that your average Saturday night gamer doesn't see something as ubiquitous as the internet as a resource for gaming, whether it's networking locally or picking the brains of their fellow gamers.

It has also given us the Dread Gaming Hipster, so it isn't all sherry and giggles.

It's interesting, but most of the players I've played with over the years have not used the internet for much gaming research, beyond finding pics for their character and possibly visiting the company forum for whatever game we're playing.  I've seen much less interaction on the whole with "insider" gaming sites or sites like ENWorld.  And gaming blogs?  Not so much, outside of their immediate group.  I think someone on RPGnet once called them "Lost Tribes", but as the internet grows, so does the number of online gamers.  But right now, there's a huge amount of gamers out there who have never heard of GNS, RPGnet, The Forge--which I think bears remembering at times when we as an internet community are anxious to boldly proclaim trends, when we by default consider to be "common knowledge", and "everybody is doing _____ now".  I think folks tend to forget about all the other gamers out there sometimes, and this can lead to a skewed perspective.  

The internet is becoming a much bigger piece of the pie, but individual communities, theory movements, online darlings, etc., are still just a chunk of crust for the moment.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstIt has also given us the Dread Gaming Hipster, so it isn't all sherry and giggles.

It's interesting, but most of the players I've played with over the years have not used the internet for much gaming research, beyond finding pics for their character and possibly visiting the company forum for whatever game we're playing.  I've seen much less interaction on the whole with "insider" gaming sites or sites like ENWorld.  And gaming blogs?  Not so much, outside of their immediate group.  I think someone on RPGnet once called them "Lost Tribes", but as the internet grows, so does the number of online gamers.  But right now, there's a huge amount of gamers out there who have never heard of GNS, RPGnet, The Forge--which I think bears remembering at times when we as an internet community are anxious to boldly proclaim trends, when we by default consider to be "common knowledge", and "everybody is doing _____ now".  I think folks tend to forget about all the other gamers out there sometimes, and this can lead to a skewed perspective.  

The internet is becoming a much bigger piece of the pie, but individual communities, theory movements, online darlings, etc., are still just a chunk of crust for the moment.

Confession: Up until recently, I had never heard of the Forge. Still haven't been there. I also don't have the slightest idea what ENworld (ENquest?) or whatever it is... is.

ENworld is a site that focuses on D20 D&D. It's actually a nice site for it with lots of reviews and a well-populated forum.

Zachary, in mentioning all of these different boards and sites, it raises an interesting point. I think it would be nice if the internet served to help bring gamers everywhere together, but the reality of it seems to be that it simply serves to give them outlets to people they agree with. These many places actually dilute the amount of interaction between folks online.

Quote from: JamesVI also think that the internet has value for the average gamer, and it becomes ironic after a point that your average Saturday night gamer doesn't see something as ubiquitous as the internet as a resource for gaming, whether it's networking locally or picking the brains of their fellow gamers.

It takes work to pick through the enormous cowpie that is the internet for the a few kernels of grain you want....and even when you do find what you are looking for you often end up with a bad taste in your mouth.

Quote from: beejazzConfession: Up until recently, I had never heard of the Forge. Still haven't been there. I also don't have the slightest idea what ENworld (ENquest?) or whatever it is... is.

//www.enworld.org -- big RPG fansite, primarily D&D/d20

I think a lot of people haven't heard of the forge, though I think RPGnet is spreading the word. One player I know was quizzing the folks on the spycraft forum if they borrowed any forge theory... they admitted they never heard of the forge until recently, and many of the ideas he was thinking were forge-like were inspired by old games like TORG.

Quote from: blakkieIt takes work to pick through the enormous cowpie that is the internet for the a few kernels of grain you want....and even when you do find what you are looking for you often end up with a bad taste in your mouth.

Such is research in general. You pore through through the stuff you don't want to grab the stuff you do. This can be helped out by the fact that you can at least attempt to use messageboards as a place to make your own specific queries. There's no real guarantee against drift or threadcrapping, not without moderation anyways, but it still has value.

Quote from: JamesVSuch is research in general.

Ya, if your Encyclopedia Britannica calls you a "munchkin haxxorz", "stupid", or a "swine".  But even if it was just tyical general research that is work. Top it off with fear/distrust of the unknown, and a lot of people won't bother with it. *shrug*

Quote from: Caesar Slaadwww.enworld.org -- big RPG fansite, primarily D&D/d20

I think a lot of people haven't heard of the forge, though I think RPGnet is spreading the word. One player I know was quizzing the folks on the spycraft forum if they borrowed any forge theory... they admitted they never heard of the forge until recently, and many of the ideas he was thinking were forge-like were inspired by old games like TORG.

Er, "The Torge"?

It's slightly worrying when people in the games industry claim not to have ever heard of the Forge.

Simply put, it's impossible to post to a multi-system RPG forum without encountering some mention of them and it's definitely impossible to have any knowledge of RPG theory without at least hearing them.

The fact that the Spycraft boys haven't heard of the Forge makes them seem a bit ivory towerish and out of touch with what's new in the hobby.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalIt's slightly worrying when people in the games industry claim not to have ever heard of the Forge.

Simply put, it's impossible to post to a multi-system RPG forum without encountering some mention of them and it's definitely impossible to have any knowledge of RPG theory without at least hearing them.

The fact that the Spycraft boys haven't heard of the Forge makes them seem a bit ivory towerish and out of touch with what's new in the hobby.

No, to me it would make them seem like people who are sufficiently in touch with what the gaming hobby as a whole really cares about to not fall for being influenced by a tiny group of extreme fanboys and self-styled experts, such as what you find on the internet.

Out in the real world, no one gives a fuck about the Forge, and the Forge, in the real world or here in internetland, in no way represents the "avant garde"; they're just a bunch of posers who want to pretend that there is an "avant garde" of gaming and that they are it.

If anyone sufficiently important took them seriously, it would ruin gaming, possibly forever. When game designers start to pay attention to the Forge, that's when it gets "slightly worrying" to me.

RPGPundit

Ah, but note that I didn't say "Take on board the theories of the Forge", I said "heard of".

It's one thing to know about the forge, read some of the articles and then dissmiss it, but it's quite another to be an RPG professional and hasve never even heard of the forge.