I'm not all that well versed in that race other than they are space monkeys coming from Star Frontiers I believe and they were scooped up by WOTC and people are losing their shit because they are supposedly racist. AFAIK it's because there could be seen allegories between their story and the history of slavery, which, as we all know since the controversy about the Absalom book of Pathfinder 2nd edition, is a no-no.
But, hasn't it ever occurred to these people complaining that it may just be a story and nothing more? If it were true that they meant to say that space monkeys are basically people of this or that race, and that they should feel offended, then I, with my Western European ancestry, could be offended each time barbarians are portrayed as white people, or if people talk about medieval societies which had serfs because at one time it existed in my country - I am from Belgium but have French roots, so yes, I know what I'm talking about, feudalism and serfdom were all the rage back in those days, only to be replaced by robber barons and their textile mills.
In my game one of the quest givers is an owner of a plantation, whereupon tortles work as slaves. The true crop, however, are the strongest Tortles, which are bred to be sold as delicacies. Is it modelled after the South? Yes, I'm not a hypocrite. Is the plantation owner in any way portrayed as a good and kind person? Hell, no. He's an evil, narcissistic piece of shit who will, in time, get his.
The point that I'm making is, you can see whatever you want to see in whatever you see. If you can't use history as a basis for your games, your games will be very bleak, dull and boring.
Busy Body soul sucking shit heels think that any race that has a skin color darker than Beige=Representing a Black Person. Furthermore, if the race has any Simian traits it therefore must be mocking a Black Person. Finally, if the Race has any type of savage behavior it therefore must be respresenting a Black Person.
TLDR: SJW's are the biggest racists on the planet and are projecting.
https://youtu.be/u-aTvzIyw-Q
Because the words Apes and Monkeys are sometimes used as slurs for Africans (so much that racist fans in European soccer/football matches throw bananas onto the grass field as an insult to African players in "their" league) it's just a taboo now.
But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, as Sigmund Freud said.
I also say to NOT avoid those topics. I want my bad guys to be bad guys. To make you instantly dislike or even hate them you can have them do stuff like own slaves. You know, to make you want to go after them, rob them, or kill them and feel good about it. And not to just get 250xp.
Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on September 03, 2022, 03:14:27 AM
But, hasn't it ever occurred to these people complaining that it may just be a story and nothing more?
I mean, these little guys have always been "a story and nothing more", but suddenly their background was changed dramatically to be something where you are supposed to see them as a stand in for blacks. So from 1982 to 2022, these were inquisitive exploration monkeys. Then they brought in racial minded leftist anti-white writers and suddenly there are a suspicious number of heavy handed analogies and references, a completely rewritten origin, etc.
Happenstance? Possibly, but it seems much more likely to be deliberate. Pundit's video on this seems definitive IMO.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 03, 2022, 11:24:04 AM
https://youtu.be/u-aTvzIyw-Q
Re: The above linked video, that didn't take long, eh?
If you are going to write sweeping changes to the backstory because you are racist AF and see all simians as stand-ins for blacks and thereby must be "slave races" at least own it. You wanted the spacefaring explorers to be "muh oppressed blacks" stand-ins. Ok, that is your right now own that shit. But nope! An even more toxic group of racist far leftists now point & shriek at, and ultimately, cannibalize their own, as they always do, so I guess we are going back to "adventurous inquisitive starfaring space monkeys".
But, what a bunch of spineless sissies caving to the Woke Mob. The good news is, my hard copy of the Spelljammer box set just doubled in value because it basically just became a "Limited Run First Edition Print" filled with 2 paragraphs of "Dat Evil Rayciss Errata" thereby making it automatically valuable as a collector's item. So there is that at least... 8) ;D
I am SHOCKED the gith race has not been erased from the history consider what the Lich Queen did to those humans over millenia.
They nixed the backstory of winged apes from the Wizard of Oz cause of pussy reasons.
All the more reason to now create splat books on DTRPG and make a fortune off the hype.
It seems like just another case of exertion of narrative control where no ownership exists or is relevant, just like the logic behind cultural appropriation.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on September 03, 2022, 11:53:38 AMTo make you instantly dislike or even hate them you can have them do stuff like own slaves. You know, to make you want to go after them, rob them, or kill them and feel good about it. And not to just get 250xp.
Yes, as stated before. The plantation owner is a piece of, in this case, Dragonborn trash. He literally hasn't got any redeeming qualities. It is not that he treats or sees the Tortles as inferior, to him they literally are cattle apart fromhis household staff, even snatching little ones, cook them using his fire breath and then sucking them out of their shell by the tail. Or crack them open using tongs of some kind. He is an evil being, but unfortunately an evil rich being who can get the party to the radiant citadel, using a clone of the speaker so the shield wouldn't raise, giving the party the time to destroy the diamond the evil lich uses as his phylactery. But if it is done, I believe the party will pay him "another visit".
It didnt take long for the ONE D&D concerns about WotC rewriting content as everything moves to the digital realm.
There is a "salvery element" in the Nu-Spelljammer lore on the Hadozee that has caused many to point it out as a racist caricature of black people.
WotC "apologized" and claimed this:
Statement on the Hadozee:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/statement-hadozee
Quote"We wanted to acknowledge and own the inclusion of offensive material within our recent Spelljammer: Adventures in Space content. We failed you, our players and our fans, and we are truly sorry.
The campaign includes a people called Hadozee which first appeared in 1982. Regrettably, not all portions of the content relating to the Hadozee were properly vetted before appearing in our most recent release. As we continue to learn and grow through every situation, we recognize that to live our values, we have to do better.
Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated. We understand the urgency of changing how we work to better ensure a more inclusive game.
Effective immediately, we will remove the offensive content about Hadozee in our digital versions – and these will no longer be included in future reprints of the book. Our priority is to make things right when we make mistakes. In addition, we've initiated a thorough internal review of the situation and will take the necessary actions as a result of that review.
We are eternally grateful for the ongoing dialog with the D&D community, and we look forward to introducing new, engaging and inclusive content to D&D for generations to come. D&D teaches that diversity is strength, for only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome the many challenges a D&D story presents. In that spirit, we are committed to making D&D as welcome and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."
Note that the parts in bold
imply that the lore on the Hadozee was a result of using unvetted write-ups from past editions of the game...
This is a false implication however.
Because there is this:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbtD9ZbaAAAjLay?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: Jaeger on September 03, 2022, 04:57:30 PM
There is a "salvery element" in the Nu-Spelljammer lore on the Hadozee that has caused many to point it out as a racist caricature of black people.
WotC "apologized" and claimed this:
Statement on the Hadozee:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/statement-hadozee
Quote"We wanted to acknowledge and own the inclusion of offensive material within our recent Spelljammer: Adventures in Space content. We failed you, our players and our fans, and we are truly sorry.
The campaign includes a people called Hadozee which first appeared in 1982. Regrettably, not all portions of the content relating to the Hadozee were properly vetted before appearing in our most recent release. As we continue to learn and grow through every situation, we recognize that to live our values, we have to do better.
Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated. We understand the urgency of changing how we work to better ensure a more inclusive game.
Effective immediately, we will remove the offensive content about Hadozee in our digital versions – and these will no longer be included in future reprints of the book. Our priority is to make things right when we make mistakes. In addition, we've initiated a thorough internal review of the situation and will take the necessary actions as a result of that review.
We are eternally grateful for the ongoing dialog with the D&D community, and we look forward to introducing new, engaging and inclusive content to D&D for generations to come. D&D teaches that diversity is strength, for only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome the many challenges a D&D story presents. In that spirit, we are committed to making D&D as welcome and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."
Note that the parts in bold imply that the lore on the Hadozee was a result of using unvetted write-ups from past editions of the game...
This is a false implication however.
Because there is this:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbtD9ZbaAAAjLay?format=jpg&name=medium)
Look at that artwork. It looks like he is about to palm a basketball.
I like the redrawn bat yazirians from here: http://androidarts.com/RPG/StarFrontiers.htm
Quote from: Jam The MF on September 03, 2022, 06:05:32 PM
Look at that artwork. It looks like he is about to palm a basketball.
It's a Flying squirrel mixed with a monkey. Big deal.
Quote from: Jam The MF on September 03, 2022, 06:05:32 PM
Look at that artwork. It looks like he is about to palm a basketball.
And/Or to bite your head off.
Quote from: Jaeger on September 03, 2022, 04:57:30 PM
There is a "salvery element" in the Nu-Spelljammer lore on the Hadozee that has caused many to point it out as a racist caricature of black people.
WotC "apologized" and claimed this:
Statement on the Hadozee:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/statement-hadozee
Quote"We wanted to acknowledge and own the inclusion of offensive material within our recent Spelljammer: Adventures in Space content. We failed you, our players and our fans, and we are truly sorry.
The campaign includes a people called Hadozee which first appeared in 1982. Regrettably, not all portions of the content relating to the Hadozee were properly vetted before appearing in our most recent release. As we continue to learn and grow through every situation, we recognize that to live our values, we have to do better.
Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated.
And the key concept is that everything is remincient because our imaginations are informed by the real world. Nothing can escape the woke concepts of racism, everything is fair game for being twisted to suit their racist, manipulative worldview.
It sounds like the new Spelljammer setting is not worth my money. I've got access to the original, and that's all I need.
It's time to move on from outrage over WOTC's perpetual attempts to destroy creativity, dynamism, and authenticity in the hobby.
These people will never change. Who is making something cool & doesn't care about the outrage mob?
Quote from: Darkwind on September 03, 2022, 12:59:03 PM
The good news is, my hard copy of the Spelljammer box set just doubled in value because it basically just became a "Limited Run First Edition Print" filled with 2 paragraphs of "Dat Evil Rayciss Errata" thereby making it automatically valuable as a collector's item. So there is that at least... 8) ;D
I considered buying one for just that reason, but I got better.
Quote from: Jaeger on September 03, 2022, 04:57:30 PM
There is a "salvery element" in the Nu-Spelljammer lore on the Hadozee that has caused many to point it out as a racist caricature of black people.
WotC "apologized" and claimed this:
Statement on the Hadozee:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/statement-hadozee
Quote"We wanted to acknowledge and own the inclusion of offensive material within our recent Spelljammer: Adventures in Space content. We failed you, our players and our fans, and we are truly sorry.
The campaign includes a people called Hadozee which first appeared in 1982. Regrettably, not all portions of the content relating to the Hadozee were properly vetted before appearing in our most recent release. As we continue to learn and grow through every situation, we recognize that to live our values, we have to do better.
Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated. We understand the urgency of changing how we work to better ensure a more inclusive game.
Effective immediately, we will remove the offensive content about Hadozee in our digital versions – and these will no longer be included in future reprints of the book. Our priority is to make things right when we make mistakes. In addition, we've initiated a thorough internal review of the situation and will take the necessary actions as a result of that review.
We are eternally grateful for the ongoing dialog with the D&D community, and we look forward to introducing new, engaging and inclusive content to D&D for generations to come. D&D teaches that diversity is strength, for only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome the many challenges a D&D story presents. In that spirit, we are committed to making D&D as welcome and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."
Note that the parts in bold imply that the lore on the Hadozee was a result of using unvetted write-ups from past editions of the game...
This is a false implication however.
Well, these are people who can never actually do anything wrong in their view. Implying someone else was racist and they failed to censor it is their version of "the Devil made me do it".
Quote from: Zelen on September 03, 2022, 09:52:59 PM
It's time to move on from outrage over WOTC's perpetual attempts to destroy creativity, dynamism, and authenticity in the hobby.
These people will never change. Who is making something cool & doesn't care about the outrage mob?
You can find it in the OSR. Either faithful renditions, or fresh takes on old rulesets; or gonzo, wacko, different approaches. It's all there, in the OSR.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 03, 2022, 08:58:45 AM
Busy Body soul sucking shit heels think that any race that has a skin color darker than Beige=Representing a Black Person. Furthermore, if the race has any Simian traits it therefore must be mocking a Black Person. Finally, if the Race has any type of savage behavior it therefore must be respresenting a Black Person.
TLDR: SJW's are the biggest racists on the planet and are projecting.
This pretty much sums it up.
Remember what I keep saying here.
There is NO limit to what these sociopaths can hallucinate. And there is NO limit to what they can induce the gullible into equally hallucinating.
The only controversy is in their own insane heads.
This controversy really bothers me... really gets to me. In my view, it's the perfect example of "soft racism": if you see a real world analogue in a species of flying, alien monkeys, YOU are the racist.
On August 24, I had made up my mind to grab some 5th edition D&D books before they became rarer and harder to find at reasonable prices - and by reasonable, I'm talking the deep, discounted prices on Amazon. I did a little research and had an idea of what titles were "tolerable" and ones to avoid. I *just* got the Spelljammer set delivered last Sunday, August 28 and found out all this crap a couple of days ago. At least now I know that future WotC products are off the table.
Quote from: FASAfan on September 05, 2022, 08:31:59 PM
This controversy really bothers me... really gets to me. In my view, it's the perfect example of "soft racism": if you see a real world analogue in a species of flying, alien monkeys, YOU are the racist.
On August 24, I had made up my mind to grab some 5th edition D&D books before they became rarer and harder to find at reasonable prices - and by reasonable, I'm talking the deep, discounted prices on Amazon. I did a little research and had an idea of what titles were "tolerable" and ones to avoid. I *just* got the Spelljammer set delivered last Sunday, August 28 and found out all this crap a couple of days ago. At least now I know that future WotC products are off the table.
More importantly, you now have a copy of the 5e Spelljammer set that just became more valuable since they're going to edit the content to be more woke in future print runs.
I'm just a little amused at how they tried to continue the lore which includes the crossover between Star Frontiers (the Hadosee were originally recalled Yazirians) and D&D and the SJW horde is unhappy. Their sense of outrage (are they "...literally shaking..." over it?) doesn't erase 20+ years of lore of the origins of the Hadosee/Yazirians, none of it racist.
I got a huge laugh out of this line from the WOTC statement:
"Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated. We understand the urgency of changing how we work to better ensure a more inclusive game."
So, they've set themselves the task of never again having any lore that is even reminiscent of any unpleasant thing that's been done to any group of people at any point in history.
If that's not creative suicide, I don't know what is.
Much like Orcs. Monkeys = Black people. And WotC are the bigots for making people think of that. It's as simple as that. SJWs expose their racism yet again. And expose their childlike lack of accountability for their own faults.
Good thing that in my setting I've reflavored the yaizirians/hadozee as space bat people so that their clothes can actually fit across their bodies. Just that, all the racism vanishes! (/sarcasm)
Quote from: 3catcircus on September 06, 2022, 08:40:05 AM
Quote from: FASAfan on September 05, 2022, 08:31:59 PM
This controversy really bothers me... really gets to me. In my view, it's the perfect example of "soft racism": if you see a real world analogue in a species of flying, alien monkeys, YOU are the racist.
On August 24, I had made up my mind to grab some 5th edition D&D books before they became rarer and harder to find at reasonable prices - and by reasonable, I'm talking the deep, discounted prices on Amazon. I did a little research and had an idea of what titles were "tolerable" and ones to avoid. I *just* got the Spelljammer set delivered last Sunday, August 28 and found out all this crap a couple of days ago. At least now I know that future WotC products are off the table.
More importantly, you now have a copy of the 5e Spelljammer set that just became more valuable since they're going to edit the content to be more woke in future print runs.
I'm just a little amused at how they tried to continue the lore which includes the crossover between Star Frontiers (the Hadosee were originally recalled Yazirians) and D&D and the SJW horde is unhappy. Their sense of outrage (are they "...literally shaking..." over it?) doesn't erase 20+ years of lore of the origins of the Hadosee/Yazirians, none of it racist.
If nobody cared about buying it before, I doubt too many will care about grabbing it up for a bit of unedited hadozee lore. Speaking for myself, my interest has risen from 0 to...well 0, so not risen at all.
"Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated. We understand the urgency of changing how we work to better ensure a more inclusive game."
This bugs me. Just because the Saxons called Vikings savages doesn't mean that calling orcs savages means Orcs = Vikings. To make it worse most cultures were called barbarians or savages by their neighbors at some point in time, but that's ignored because savages was a term applied to Africans during the Victorian era and that's all that counts. The real problem is these fools were not laughed out of the room when they started this nonsense and now some don't have the brainpower to see the sham for what it is.
Quote from: HappyDaze on September 06, 2022, 01:20:01 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on September 06, 2022, 08:40:05 AM
Quote from: FASAfan on September 05, 2022, 08:31:59 PM
This controversy really bothers me... really gets to me. In my view, it's the perfect example of "soft racism": if you see a real world analogue in a species of flying, alien monkeys, YOU are the racist.
On August 24, I had made up my mind to grab some 5th edition D&D books before they became rarer and harder to find at reasonable prices - and by reasonable, I'm talking the deep, discounted prices on Amazon. I did a little research and had an idea of what titles were "tolerable" and ones to avoid. I *just* got the Spelljammer set delivered last Sunday, August 28 and found out all this crap a couple of days ago. At least now I know that future WotC products are off the table.
More importantly, you now have a copy of the 5e Spelljammer set that just became more valuable since they're going to edit the content to be more woke in future print runs.
I'm just a little amused at how they tried to continue the lore which includes the crossover between Star Frontiers (the Hadosee were originally recalled Yazirians) and D&D and the SJW horde is unhappy. Their sense of outrage (are they "...literally shaking..." over it?) doesn't erase 20+ years of lore of the origins of the Hadosee/Yazirians, none of it racist.
If nobody cared about buying it before, I doubt too many will care about grabbing it up for a bit of unedited hadozee lore. Speaking for myself, my interest has risen from 0 to...well 0, so not risen at all.
Oh, absolutely. If you have 1e/2e spelljammer, you've got 90% of what you need for gameplay in any edition of D&D, whether 5e, PF, OSR. The "they're black people" SJW racism is new and is a mash-up of 2e, 3.5e, and new lore.
Yazirians have been a PC race since the early 1980s when they first appeared in Star Frontiers. It wasn't until 3e that they changed from a rocky the flying squirrel/chewbacca look (wookiees likely being the inspiration but changed so that TSR wouldn't get sued) to an actual great ape look. Now, they've returned to their Star Frontiers roots but the mashup of the lore is what has created the problem. That along with claims of minstrel shows because of art showing one in a bad ren faire costume.
I love the idea of yazirians being descendants of the hadozee (who are the dralasites descended from - gelatinous cubes?) But had they stuck with the original yazirian descriptions in Star Frontiers (...the smartest of the four core races...), would some still be offended by the "they were enslaved by an evil wizard" origin story?
Quote from: 3catcircus on September 06, 2022, 02:17:08 PM
But had they stuck with the original yazirian descriptions in Star Frontiers (...the smartest of the four core races...), would some still be offended by the "they were enslaved by an evil wizard" origin story?
Maybe not specifically, but they'd find something to complain about. When you're a professional victim that gets paid in social credits, you need to find a job wherever you can get it.
So I wonder when someone keys in on the Spelljammer lore that the Elves are actual racists and Elven supremacists?
It's one of the funnest aspects of the game - giving people to mistrust them despite their necessity to keep the status quo. Whatever, I don't buy WotC products. I own all the product from 1e-3e I'll ever need, WotC can go burn.
Quote from: Effete on September 06, 2022, 02:32:53 PM
Maybe not specifically, but they'd find something to complain about. When you're a professional victim that gets paid in social credits, you need to find a job wherever you can get it.
Facts right here. I read on Twitter where some progressively minded moron suggested all this could have been avoided if they had hired some sensitivity coordinator that could not be overruled by corporate but they failed to do so because, wait for it, privilege.
Exactly how big do they think the budgets are for these things? That all publishers can hire some gender studies major to trot around in their rainbow unicorn onesie at corporate to tell everyone when they're not being sensitive enough? Their stupidity exceeds me to such a level that I cannot comprehend them.
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 06, 2022, 09:04:19 AM
Much like Orcs. Monkeys = Black people. And WotC are the bigots for making people think of that. It's as simple as that. SJWs expose their racism yet again. And expose their childlike lack of accountability for their own faults.
"If you're the only person hearing a dogwhistle, maybe you're the dog."
The controversy is that the lore insert by the 5E designers is as lame as anything else they touch. Magical uplifting of a species is just stupid from the get go. Adding in the slavery element is just being patently unaware of the audience they are cultivating.
The WORST aspect of this is them trying to blame the source materials for this all. None of this shit existed in Star Frontiers or the 2E Spell Jammer stuff.
When is the disclaimer banner coming to 5E material on DMs Guild? The current crop is no more "pure" than the folks from the 70s, 80s and 90s that they are riffing from and not compensating for the continued use of the IP they originated.
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 06, 2022, 08:46:29 AM
I got a huge laugh out of this line from the WOTC statement:
"Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated. We understand the urgency of changing how we work to better ensure a more inclusive game."
So, they've set themselves the task of never again having any lore that is even reminiscent of any unpleasant thing that's been done to any group of people at any point in history.
If that's not creative suicide, I don't know what is.
Oh, evils done by certain groups to themselves or suffered by said groups as "justified revenge" will be their inspiration.
I'm sure the Coyote & Crow sourcebook for D&D is coming.
Quote from: 3catcircus on September 06, 2022, 02:17:08 PM
I love the idea of yazirians being descendants of the hadozee (who are the dralasites descended from - gelatinous cubes?) But had they stuck with the original yazirian descriptions in Star Frontiers (...the smartest of the four core races...), would some still be offended by the "they were enslaved by an evil wizard" origin story?
Yes, because in the West we have at least one generation raised to think slavery:
1. Was only done by white Europeans.
2. Was only done to black Africans.
3. Was invented in 1619 or so.
Thus anything about slavery is an attempt to re-enslave or justify enslaving black Africians.
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on September 06, 2022, 07:20:23 PM
Exactly how big do they think the budgets are for these things? That all publishers can hire some gender studies major to trot around in their rainbow unicorn onesie at corporate to tell everyone when they're not being sensitive enough? Their stupidity exceeds me to such a level that I cannot comprehend them.
They don't care about budgets (and probably think budgets are just a capitalist way of keeping more stuff). They care about more jobs that match their "skills".
Quote from: Palleon on September 07, 2022, 09:21:49 AM
The WORST aspect of this is them trying to blame the source materials for this all. None of this shit existed in Star Frontiers or the 2E Spell Jammer stuff.
That is what really pisses me off...it's their version of "The Devil made me do it."
Own what you write if nothing else.
Quote from: Palleon on September 07, 2022, 09:21:49 AM
The controversy is that the lore insert by the 5E designers is as lame as anything else they touch. Magical uplifting of a species is just stupid from the get go. Adding in the slavery element is just being patently unaware of the audience they are cultivating.
The WORST aspect of this is them trying to blame the source materials for this all. None of this shit existed in Star Frontiers or the 2E Spell Jammer stuff.
When is the disclaimer banner coming to 5E material on DMs Guild? The current crop is no more "pure" than the folks from the 70s, 80s and 90s that they are riffing from and not compensating for the continued use of the IP they originated.
They literally stole the Gith race and gave them sugar glider wings.
Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on September 03, 2022, 03:14:27 AM
I'm not all that well versed in that race other than they are space monkeys coming from Star Frontiers I believe and they were scooped up by WOTC and people are losing their shit because they are supposedly racist. AFAIK it's because there could be seen allegories between their story and the history of slavery, which, as we all know since the controversy about the Absalom book of Pathfinder 2nd edition, is a no-no.
But, hasn't it ever occurred to these people complaining that it may just be a story and nothing more? If it were true that they meant to say that space monkeys are basically people of this or that race, and that they should feel offended, then I, with my Western European ancestry, could be offended each time barbarians are portrayed as white people, or if people talk about medieval societies which had serfs because at one time it existed in my country - I am from Belgium but have French roots, so yes, I know what I'm talking about, feudalism and serfdom were all the rage back in those days, only to be replaced by robber barons and their textile mills.
In my game one of the quest givers is an owner of a plantation, whereupon tortles work as slaves. The true crop, however, are the strongest Tortles, which are bred to be sold as delicacies. Is it modelled after the South? Yes, I'm not a hypocrite. Is the plantation owner in any way portrayed as a good and kind person? Hell, no. He's an evil, narcissistic piece of shit who will, in time, get his.
The point that I'm making is, you can see whatever you want to see in whatever you see. If you can't use history as a basis for your games, your games will be very bleak, dull and boring.
Yazirians are racist because when the SJWotC see monkeys they think "Hmph, those are supposed to be black people!"
So, you know, once again the leftists are the actual racists.
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 07, 2022, 11:06:08 AM
Yes, because in the West we have at least one generation raised to think slavery:
1. Was only done by white Europeans.
2. Was only done to black Africans.
3. Was invented in 1619 or so.
Thus anything about slavery is an attempt to re-enslave or justify enslaving black Africians.
We'll to need to, if we're ever going to build that time machine so we can go back and build the pyramids.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 07, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
Quote from: Palleon on September 07, 2022, 09:21:49 AM
The controversy is that the lore insert by the 5E designers is as lame as anything else they touch. Magical uplifting of a species is just stupid from the get go. Adding in the slavery element is just being patently unaware of the audience they are cultivating.
The WORST aspect of this is them trying to blame the source materials for this all. None of this shit existed in Star Frontiers or the 2E Spell Jammer stuff.
When is the disclaimer banner coming to 5E material on DMs Guild? The current crop is no more "pure" than the folks from the 70s, 80s and 90s that they are riffing from and not compensating for the continued use of the IP they originated.
They literally stole the Gith race and gave them sugar glider wings.
Could be - githyanki and githzerai first appeared in the 1e Fiend Folio in 1981 while Star Frontiers was published in 1982 when the yazirians were first appearing.
Quote from: 3catcircus on September 07, 2022, 06:47:49 PM
Could be - githyanki and githzerai first appeared in the 1e Fiend Folio in 1981 while Star Frontiers was published in 1982 when the yazirians were first appearing.
Yes, but Yaziarians lore didn't match up to the Gith.
Also, I think at least one of the Gith appeared even earlier in White Dwarf as the FF drew heavily on WD and WD submissions.
Quote from: mightybrain on September 07, 2022, 06:14:36 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 07, 2022, 11:06:08 AM
Yes, because in the West we have at least one generation raised to think slavery:
1. Was only done by white Europeans.
2. Was only done to black Africans.
3. Was invented in 1619 or so.
Thus anything about slavery is an attempt to re-enslave or justify enslaving black Africians.
We'll to need to, if we're ever going to build that time machine so we can go back and build the pyramids.
https://www.britannica.com/video/226777/did-enslaved-people-build-the-pyramids
This was all clever viral marketing for my new book, 100 Fantasy Race Stand-Ins for Black People. Coming soon to a bookseller near you!
Quote from: Zelen on September 07, 2022, 10:21:30 PM
This was all clever viral marketing for my new book, 100 Fantasy Race Stand-Ins for Black People. Coming soon to a bookseller near you!
So - that's... That's a very long viral marketing campaign. I mean - orcs, drow, and now this? I commend you on your commitment to really selling the work (work in the professional wrestling sense of the word...)
The hadosee controversy won't be the end of it - some butt-hurt folks (or is that folx) will pivot to the next outrage du jour...
The real question remains unanswered - who decided that the lore needed an update to begin with - because professional victim complaints aside - it's just not compelling - it's badly-written and lacks imagination. Had they thrown in lore that was a teaser to what the yazirians would become "in tha fyoochah" (said in 1950s radio announcer voice) or even the opposite (D&D being the future of Star Frontiers). There could have been some really cool tie-ins (so "that's" where the spaceship in Barrier Peaks comes from!) but like everything else of late, they fucked it up.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 07, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
They literally stole the Gith race and gave them sugar glider wings.
Nope.
If anything the Yazirians as they originally appeared seemed to be based on similar ideas as the Phantons from Isle of Dread.
Quote from: Omega on September 08, 2022, 07:27:39 AM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 07, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
They literally stole the Gith race and gave them sugar glider wings.
Nope.
If anything the Yazirians as they originally appeared seemed to be based on similar ideas as the Phantons from Isle of Dread.
Yeah, they definitely look like phantons but with more of a primate aspect as opposed to lemur/squirrel.
As usual, any depiction of a primate-esque race in an RPG draws screams of 'DAT'S RAYCISS' (sigh). You'd THINK they'd be all about a slave race that frees itself and goes out into the galaxy to succeed -- lol, nope.
I wonder if Eclipse Phase has these problems with neo-primate characters?
So, if the Hadosee and Orcs and Drow are all black people, who are the pale guys with elbow testicles?
Nobody tell the wokies about the Sesheyans!
Quote from: Zelen on September 07, 2022, 10:21:30 PM
This was all clever viral marketing for my new book, 100 Fantasy Race Stand-Ins for Black People. Coming soon to a bookseller near you!
Shut up and take my money!
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 07, 2022, 08:54:41 PM
Quote from: mightybrain on September 07, 2022, 06:14:36 PM
We'll to need to, if we're ever going to build that time machine so we can go back and build the pyramids.
https://www.britannica.com/video/226777/did-enslaved-people-build-the-pyramids
Maybe, but it hasn't stopped this tee shirt from being very common at leather events (usually worn by bottoms):
(https://d1w8c6s6gmwlek.cloudfront.net/someteeforyou.com/products/227/636/22763655.png)
Quote from: 3catcircus on September 08, 2022, 07:01:14 AM
The hadosee controversy won't be the end of it - some butt-hurt folks (or is that folx) will pivot to the next outrage du jour...
I think it was Taylor Lane who said the end point of One D&D is going to be everyone is My Little Pony Bards of various "races"
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 08, 2022, 05:28:51 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on September 08, 2022, 07:01:14 AM
The hadosee controversy won't be the end of it - some butt-hurt folks (or is that folx) will pivot to the next outrage du jour...
I think it was Taylor Lane who said the end point of One D&D is going to be everyone is My Little Pony Bards of various "races"
You wish it would end so happily.
No.
Remember. There is NO limit to what these lunatics can hallucinate
Earth ponies are an obvious stand in for oppresededed minorities because they have no magic and are used as SLAVES to do all the menial tasks.
Unicorns are obvious priviliged whites who are WACIST because Twilight likes math and books and math is WACIST because it was invented by white people! Also shes purple which is the color used by white WACISTS!
Cat Circuses are obvious representations of white privilege because some cats are WHITE! And they eat mice who are obvious representations of oppresededed minorities! Furthermore Circuses are WACIST because only white people go to them AND they promote GENOCIDE because they have animals from Africa!
Quote from: 3catcircus on September 08, 2022, 07:01:14 AM
The real question remains unanswered - who decided that the lore needed an update to begin with - because professional victim complaints aside - it's just not compelling - it's badly-written and lacks imagination.
It's such a fumble that it all but seems deliberate.
Quote from: Omega on September 08, 2022, 09:03:29 PM
Earth ponies are an obvious stand in for oppresededed minorities because they have no magic and are used as SLAVES to do all the menial tasks.
Unicorns are obvious priviliged whites who are WACIST because Twilight likes math and books and math is WACIST because it was invented by white people! Also shes purple which is the color used by white WACISTS!
You jest, but this isn't far from the direction the next gen of MLP has taken. Only the Earth ponies ended up on top after magic left the world.