I see we're continuing the trend of RIDICULOUS kickstarter contribution levels and pdf rewards for outrageous sums of money.

I think the Reaper kickstarter is going to turn out to be the last good one.

Someone in the other thread said something like:  You unworthy dogs must PAY for the PRIVILEGE of being part of our Kickstarter.

I think that's the wrong mentality and I will never back a Kickstarter that doesn't even offer the book at the $75 (player) level.  Also, there are merchant only packages that are less than that.

What the hell?  I can't believe what these companies have turned Kickstarter into.  It's almost like it's no longer for amateurs or folks who seriously don't have enough money.  This one's softcover goal is $10,000.  I hope it fails, and that causes a trend of Kickstarter failures to break the trend.

Quote from: Blackhand;613487I think that's the wrong mentality and I will never back a Kickstarter that doesn't even offer the book at the $75 (player) level.

In principle I am with you but there is a $75 (GM) level that includes a print copy of the book. The player levels are for merchandise like T-Shirts and baseball caps.

OTOH, that $75 is the lowest level where you could get a 144 page softcover book is still outrageous.
[EDIT: I have to retract the last statement!. I missed the $50 (GM) level that also has the physical book.]

Quote from: Blackhand;613487What the hell?  I can't believe what these companies have turned Kickstarter into.  It's almost like it's no longer for amateurs or folks who seriously don't have enough money.

There's something really nasty that happens with passionate hobbyists turn into "professional game designers," and what's been happening on Kickstarter really illustrates that.

There's another pathfinder megadungeon with big name authors attached to their Pathfinder online MMORPG Kickstarter (which looks like it will probably fail). The thing is called the Emerald Spire and they have Rich Baker, Frank Mentzer, and (shockingly) Mark Rein-Hagen attached to it.

There was a piece on Tenkar's Tavern about it - this one is set up as sort of a fake stretch goal, on which nothing happens at all unless the MMO gets funded.

Quote from: JeremyR;613153I would like to see a KS with a bunch of infamous RPG celebrities. Raven McCracken (of Synnibarr fame), that Carcosa guy, the Vampire: Undeath guy, maybe James M (the Grognardia guy), Morrus from ENWorld...

Hmm.. I wonder if there's any money in that... "RPG forum celebrity"-endorsement of Kickstarters?

RPGPundit

Quote from: misterguignol;613501There's something really nasty that happens with passionate hobbyists turn into "professional game designers," and what's been happening on Kickstarter really illustrates that.

Just now, groking this? With just a few exceptions I stopped buying new games and Rpgs in volume some years ago. I know what it costs to make a book. Add in a bit a value with content, and $40-50 does not seam unreasonable in the new publishing age for a dead print copy of a decent game. The prices on some of these, are just ridiculous though, especially considering what actual content is inside, and what you get with the Kickstarter.

...and the ones with the audacity to insult you... the worst. They'll never get any of my money!

Quote from: jeff37923;613154So we got a Kickstarter for a megadungeon. So what? Why the derision and scorn?

Did you look at the Kickstarter?

1) If you pay $175 they'll let you write a level.  I don't know where you're coming from, but if I'm putting in hard work to create a good level, I want to get paid for my work.

2) At $30 you get a pdf of the 'core levels' of the book.  What's that mean? I don't know, and there's nothing on the page that says what the core levels are.  The only way to get what seems to be a complete pdf is to buy up to the $50 where you get a copy of the book... a 144 page softcover book for $50.

3) The original dungeon this was based on made such a small splash that I can only find one review on the internet - and that's a partial one from Pyramid.

4) The 'best of all the best' language running through the whole text is overblown the point of ridicule.

5) Finally, the risk they state is that "We believe heartily that a well detailed map and proper book layout is the key to running a great dungeon adventure. As such we will be spending significant time developing the very best layout that we can. It's possible that this process will be more complicated than expected, and potentially delay the project."  Really?  Other projects run up on the shoals of time management for writing, problems getting things printed properly, problems coordinating various pledge level rewards and so forth.  Their only anticipated problem is getting the map to look right?

Basically, it looks like a project by amateurs, and moreover, it sounds like the only parts of it that are written are the bits published ten years ago.  I'd say I'd bet money that they don't send out the book by their goal date of August 2013, except that almost no projects manage to send out on time. I'll say instead that nothing will get sent out in 2013, and backers (if it completes) will still be waiting a year from today.  (Although It'll be out 'any day now', O'Neill will be saying.)

Quote from: GameDaddy;613515Just now, groking this? With just a few exceptions I stopped buying new games and Rpgs in volume some years ago. I know what it costs to make a book. Add in a bit a value with content, and $40-50 does not seam unreasonable in the new publishing age for a dead print copy of a decent game. The prices on some of these, are just ridiculous though, especially considering what actual content is inside, and what you get with the Kickstarter.

...and the ones with the audacity to insult you... the worst. They'll never get any of my money!

I'm not groking this now, but instead am surprised that people have started to agree with what I've been saying for a while now.

Funny you should mention "the audacity to insult you" as I was just told last week by a retro-clone dude that I "didn't deserve his product."  And that's fine by me, I am sure there are other folks making stuff that wouldn't mind my money finding its way to their pockets.

Huh, looks like this industry is taking a page from video games. It all sounds like a glorified pre-release reservation with a suffocating slathering on of hyperbole.

I'd say it's a pity, but I'm sorta not surprised. Also, isn't there enough earnest Kickstarters out there to 'keep up the faith' as it were?

Update: with seventeen days still to go, the Grande Temple of Jing is at 200% of its goal.

The average pledge? $75.00.


I . . . hope it's brilliant and ships on time.

Let's have a rummage around...OK, I got some old maps and shit. And I've got Ken St Andre's email address, might be able to wangle a celeb endorsement...here we come, Darke Krypts of Bazongulu! Early bird supporters get to create the index!

Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;622073Early bird supporters get to create the index!

:rotfl:

I know that haters gonna hate, but if you could do better, then why don't you? What is stopping you from doing your own Kickstarter and showing the world your dungeon of awesome?

Quote from: jeff37923;622104I know that haters gonna hate, but if you could do better, then why don't you? What is stopping you from doing your own Kickstarter and showing the world your dungeon of awesome?

'Well, if you don't like the movie, why don't you just produce and direct your own?'

'If that meal was so bad, why don't you just start your own restaurant?'

'Hey, if you don't like the mayor, why don't you just run for office and show everyone how it's done?

Jeff, do I really need to explain why this is a silly argument?

My response to Jeff's question can be found here