The Goblin Curve

RPGPundit · September 25, 2009, 03:01:50 PM

Discuss.

RPGPundit

LeSquide · September 25, 2009, 03:07:30 PM

Are you using minions goblins for the 4e numbers? Because 23 of just about any regular monster would do-in a first level 4e character otherwise, barring a threshold to fight in or similar, and even that might not be enough.
Also, why is 2e's so much lower than 3e's? A 2e fighter could specialize at first level; with a decent weapon, they could tear through a lot of the lil' buggers right quick, maybe moreso than the strictly-attack limited 3e fighter could.

Thanlis · September 25, 2009, 03:27:14 PM

I'd have to see the math and the assumptions. In 4e it's a bit too easy to choose your goblins by whatever criteria you like -- Pog, the level 9 elite goblin, destroys the level 1 fighter. So you gotta have some assumptions, but what's an "average" goblin?

BloodyCactus · September 25, 2009, 03:31:57 PM

ha! This answers a question I was just about to post. The wife let me scan around in the bookshop (B&N) while she did other stuff.

So, I don't play dnd4e but was reading the adventure module Sceptre of Spellgard.

The opening recommendation for level 1 characters is right at the start, fight 4 kobold skirmishers which are then joined by 6 kobold slingers, then by an ochre jelly. Once all this combat has ended they then fight 5 kruthik young.

(I was taking notes)...

The GM then levels up them to level 2 and gives them a "level 1 minor quest reward".

Can a level 1 group actually fight + survive 10 kobolds, 1 ochre jelly then 5 kruthik??

That seems pretty steep right off the bat just to get them to level 2.

Looking at your graph, that kind answers my question.

LeSquide · September 25, 2009, 03:53:36 PM

They probably can, but in no small part due to the increased ability of leader and healer characters to keep the party going. A lone fighter against a bunch of regular level 1 goblins (say, Goblin Warriors and Goblin Archers) is probably going to go down, and pretty quick at that.

More specifically regarding that Spellgard fight: That particular fight gets pretty damn hairy if they don't drop the first and second wave right quick.

Thanlis · September 25, 2009, 04:19:36 PM

Amusingly, the most infamous TPK encounter in the WotC modules is led by a goblin. (Go, Irontooth!)

Benoist · September 25, 2009, 04:41:52 PM

In D&D Extreme Edition (D&DX for short), you'll be able to take on entire armies of Goblins as a 1st level Uberwarrior (the new name of the Fighter character class).

Thanlis · September 25, 2009, 04:50:21 PM

I dug it up, because I believe in proper attribution. It's from a series of posts on hack/:

The Evolution of the Fighter - Part 1: OD&D
The Evolution of the Fighter - Part 2: BD&D
The Evolution of the Fighter - Part 3: AD&D1
The Evolution of the Fighter - Part 4: AD&D2
The Evolution of the Fighter - Part 5: D&D 3e
The Evolution of the Fighter - Part 6: D&D 4e

The methodology is questionable -- it's one goblin at a time, in a never-ending stream. So 2e fighters don't get the full benefit of their specialization and 4e fighters don't get Cleave. Apparently the goblins appear next to the fighter, since there's no indication that ranged weapons were considered.

I was kind of wondering. I think 23 minions would be a bit much for a 4e fighter in a clump, although I haven't done any test fights. Nine attacks per round, all of them with combat advantage?

Hackmaster · September 25, 2009, 05:21:04 PM

The whole thing is a sham. The 4e goblin is a 1 HP minion. Just more of the senseless 4e bashing.

LeSquide · September 25, 2009, 05:28:57 PM

The choice of powers is very odd; Sure Strike is good for pinging minions and...
well...
notably little else. It's a bit like the equivalent of stating up a 3e spiked chain wielder, but more limited; good at one thing, but that's all they're doing.

Windjammer · September 25, 2009, 05:36:49 PM

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=285873#post285873

Aos · September 25, 2009, 05:59:04 PM

Take your hand off the Forum's cock, pundit.

One Horse Town · September 25, 2009, 06:16:28 PM

What, he's touching you Aos?

Aos · September 25, 2009, 06:17:19 PM

yeah, but only because his mom got tired.

Thanlis · September 25, 2009, 06:49:18 PM

Quote from: Windjammer;334155http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=285873#post285873

OMG funny.