Quote from: Levi KornelsenSurvive?

I assume you mean "in notable numbers."

Cuz, uh, I'll still be playing, writing, and buying.  And I can make new players, if need be.  And there's plently enough like me around.

Of course. There are still people who play Puffing Billy, too.

Quote from: EveryoneOf course. There are still people who play Puffing Billy, too.

Yep.

...And there are still people building model trains.  And people making those trains for them, in small operations that do incredibly high-quality work, even if the packaging tends to be cheap.  And websites and fanzines.  At worst, that's where we'll end up.  

I'm okay with that, frankly.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenSurvive?

I assume you mean "in notable numbers."

Cuz, uh, I'll still be playing, writing, and buying.  And I can make new players, if need be.  And there's plently enough like me around.

I echo this....IMO a computer game, while it might become increasingly sophisticated, will never replace FTF RPing. This means that as long as I desire to keep my imagination buff I will want to hang out with a group of gamers once a week or so. I remember a time when the RPing hobby was a pretty damn small group of people....I lived with it then and I can live with it in the future if I must.

there will always be a market, even if said market continues to shrink.  only when the last of us has died or given up will there be no market at all.  

Quote from: RPGPunditIts not particularly logical to think that WoW stops people from buying D&D products. It IS logical, mind you, to think that WoW stops people who don't play D&D already from getting into that game. But that really should not have any kind of "devastating" effect on the current D&D sales.

RPGPundit

It's logical if said person feels that 15 bucks a month for gaming is worth it more then 30+ in splat/campaign books.  Players on a budget may(and do) see it as an alternative, I know I have friends who stopped buying PnP books because WoW was actually cheaper for them, I doubt it's localized.  However there are those who do both, and those who eventually find that WoW doesn't offer what they want or they can't deal with the schedule/ requirments/ commitment/ technical issues that come from playing the game and come back to table-top games.

I dont think the future of gaming is playing over the internet. The whole reason I got into gaming was the social aspect of rubbing shoulders with other strange misfits that eventually became good friends.

Those who want to play "online" do it because they seek quick fixes, and that comes in the form of already existing online computer RPGs, WoW or others. Network gaming (LAN) is the height for computer gaming as far as I am concerned, and online network gaming just doesnt do it for me, not as a replacement for role-player either.

Yes I lost gaming buddies to Dungeon Siege, WoW and others, but then for these people, this was THE experience they were seeking all along, and gaming around the table was as close to the experience as they could get, before the advent of PC RPGs.

The technology may already be here, or at the very least, just around the corner, but I doubt it will be embraced or get the level of commitment me as a GM would expect.

There is something special and unique about a group that eschew other activities to spend 4 hours on a Sunday evening to play in my game, or any of our games.

i most definitely don't spend $30+ a month on D&D.  i buy about one book every 2-4 months, depending on what's coming out.  i do buy Dragon mag it seems from 1/3 - 2/3 of the time though.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenYep.

...And there are still people building model trains.  And people making those trains for them, in small operations that do incredibly high-quality work, even if the packaging tends to be cheap.  And websites and fanzines.  At worst, that's where we'll end up.  

I'm okay with that, frankly.

Yeah, so am I -- if I can ever find a group to game with again. But your example is very cogent to me, as it's one I've been thinking about lately.  Model trains and scale modeling are two hobbies that have plugged along in relative obscurity for decades now.

The main difference between these hobbies and RPGs is that they don't require more than one person to do. This could be why they can continue on as a viable hobby (and industry) even though the population density of their adherents is pretty low. RPGs require at least some other gamers within a reasonably small area. I can see driving maybe a half-hour or so to get to a session, but beyond that... :shrug: Maybe if it was with a group of people I was pretty close friends with. If not, I don't know if I'd be willing to make such a drive.

Quote from: BOZi most definitely don't spend $30+ a month on D&D.  i buy about one book every 2-4 months, depending on what's coming out.  i do buy Dragon mag it seems from 1/3 - 2/3 of the time though.

1 Dragon + 1 Dungeon a month is 15 bucks right there.  There is usually 2 or more D&D books to come out a month, not counting other game systems so 30+ a month is not hard to do.

true, but it's all voluntary.  many a month has gone by where i bought no RPG materials at all.  my expense those months was $0.  

i almost never buy Dungeon.  i'd say my average monthly expenditure for D&D stuff (taking in Dragon and the 2-4 hardcovers i've been buying every year after 3.5 debuted), is $10-15 at most, and probably less than that in reality.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonYeah, so am I -- if I can ever find a group to game with again. But your example is very cogent to me, as it's one I've been thinking about lately.  Model trains and scale modeling are two hobbies that have plugged along in relative obscurity for decades now.

The main difference between these hobbies and RPGs is that they don't require more than one person to do. This could be why they can continue on as a viable hobby (and industry) even though the population density of their adherents is pretty low. RPGs require at least some other gamers within a reasonably small area. I can see driving maybe a half-hour or so to get to a session, but beyond that... :shrug: Maybe if it was with a group of people I was pretty close friends with. If not, I don't know if I'd be willing to make such a drive.

I think our esteemed Col. has hit the nail right on it's little noggin with this issue here. Finding gamers within a reasonable distance is what will suffer the most from the decay of our hobby, and the biggest reason why people could switch over to MMORPGs. On EQ, I never had to look far or long to find people to group with...heck most of the time I played I was in a guild that had members on at all times of the day and night. Since I played a druid I could even solo just fine if I wanted, and often did. At the time I just didn't have any RPG players that I knew or could find, so I did the next best thing. If players become even harder to find, I probably wouldn't hesitate to go back either, but I'd still rather be FtF RPing.

Quote from: BOZtrue, but it's all voluntary.  many a month has gone by where i bought no RPG materials at all.  my expense those months was $0.  

i almost never buy Dungeon.  i'd say my average monthly expenditure for D&D stuff (taking in Dragon and the 2-4 hardcovers i've been buying every year after 3.5 debuted), is $10-15 at most, and probably less than that in reality.

All gaming is voluntary.  I'm only showing that it's not unreasonable for the switch, especially for financial reasons.  I can get X amount of hobby fun for Y amount or Y+ amount, I choose the Y amount.

With the increase of places like My Space, MMORPG's, Blogging and other forms of digital communication with the increase use of PC's at the gaming table it's not unreasonable to see an increase of gaming via non-traditional means.  Look how long PBM games have been around and thriving.

sure, it's reasonable... if you feel you need to have everything that exists for the format you want to game in, then $100 a month (roughly; even more if you include 3rd party d20 stuff) is a lot more to spend to get all the gaming books and such, as opposed to a mere monthly fee of $15 or whatnot to game online and you get everything you need once you've purchased the initial sortware.  if you look at it from that perspective, and i'm sure some people do, it does seem to make much more sense.

however, consider some other sides to the equation.  for me, i was playing City of Heroes for awhile.  the monthly fee wasn't huge, so no big whoop.  i tend to be too busy with a wife, children, full time job, and PNP RPG hobby to game online very often.  in fact, i had to make time to meet up with my friends on CoH.  it got harder and harder to coordinate the time to play with them until finally i stopped trying for awhile.  maybe 2 or 3 months went by like this where i played CoH very little or not at all.  when my bank account was overdrawn one time, my CoH account lapsed.  i decided not to reinstate it, because i was paying too much to do too little.

now take D&D.  i could have just bought the PHB for $30, and never bought a single book again.  in my party, nearly all of the 3E books have been purchased by someone, so they are shared by all.  if i want to look something up in a book that i don't have, i don't need to buy the book just to see it, i can borrow my friend's copy for 10 minutes.  any books i purchased beyond the PHB were totally optional.  some books i thought about getting but did not get because my budget was too tight.  however, no matter how broke i am, i don't have to stop playing tabletop D&D.

Quote from: SigmundFinding gamers within a reasonable distance is what will suffer the most from the decay of our hobby,

What is this "find" you speak of?

Find, nothing.  Make new gamers.

i have a baby, but she needs to learn to speak and read before she can game.