i don't want to knock the program; i'm sure it's cool.  i was just imagining the possibilities of what could be possible as technology continues to lurch forward.  

when i was a lot younger, say 10-12 years ago, i imagined a fully computerized "gaming table".  it would have little laptop-like screens at each seat that could display character sheets, gaming books (PDF style, totally hyperlinked), etc.  you could have digitized dice or real ones as you prefer.  your characters would appear on the middle of the table, like the chess game from Star Wars, rather than miniatures.

of course, it would be ridiculously expensive.  

Quote from: SobekAgain, though, I'm dumbfounded by people being willing to organize a (regular) time to play MMORPGs.

I don't know why you would be. To sort of echo Bullitt, when you have life-long friends scattered across the continent, it's nice to get together to game, even if it's done online. My brother and his buddies occasionally get together like this. To them, and to me, it's less interesting to play a game online with strangers.

Quote from: BOZi don't want to knock the program; i'm sure it's cool.  i was just imagining the possibilities of what could be possible as technology continues to lurch forward.  

when i was a lot younger, say 10-12 years ago, i imagined a fully computerized "gaming table".  it would have little laptop-like screens at each seat that could display character sheets, gaming books (PDF style, totally hyperlinked), etc.  you could have digitized dice or real ones as you prefer.  your characters would appear on the middle of the table, like the chess game from Star Wars, rather than miniatures.

of course, it would be ridiculously expensive.  

Yeah, but more realisically now you'd just have a laptop for everyone networked together.  And if you're going to go to all that expense/trouble, then why mess with tabletop style rules and just use a 3D engine.  That isn't futuristic, you can do that right now with NWN, WoW, or any other number of games.  And you can game the same way over the net.

(Repeating my tirade from RPGnet on the same subject)

I'm not predicting the end of gaming exactly, but IMO beer and pretzels gaming is on its way out.  I mean if you really don't care about characters, conflict, drama or plot, if you just play to enjoy some absentminded violence, min-maxing, and going up in levels/getting l33t powers, what exactly is any RPG going to offer you over WoW?  The scent of Unwashed Gamer?  The inconvinence of only playing once a week?  The lack of 3D graphics?  Sure, there may be some who prefer it but think of a new gamer - which is he going to prefer?  Even the social aspect is trumped by a LAN party.

So does that mean gaming is over?  Not any more than the invention of the camera meant the death of painting.  Focus will just shift.  Since the computers do simulated enviroments, min maxing, and number crunching so well, RPGs will focus on areas where they are weak.  Spontaneous game play, conflict and drama, characterization, and involved role playing.  

I'd predict that there'll be another breakout game, one that makes conflict and drama as easy and natural as d20 made beer & pretzel gaming in 2000, vampire made angst in the 90s, and AD&D created a sense of wonder in the 80s.  Sure, there are some games that focus on that in the indie RPG scene, but they are games by experts for experts.  I'd wager not many people would jump right into My Life With Master or Dogs in the Vineyard as their first exposure to gaming.

How to do that, well if I knew that I'd be designing it.  

Quote from: MaddmanYeah, but more realisically now you'd just have a laptop for everyone networked together.

yeah, i was thinking about that today.  my idea seemed much more futuristic when i was a kid.  

it's not unlikely that tabletop gaming will totally evolve into some entirely/mostly electronic format at some point, but who is to say what the future holds?

i mean, some people still do wargaming, so it's not like pen-n-paper is going to truly die, just possibly go out of fashion.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonI don't know why you would be. To sort of echo Bullitt, when you have life-long friends scattered across the continent, it's nice to get together to game, even if it's done online.

I kinda understand it with "the old gang" (thus my "no other choice" caveat), but not entirely.  For that, I'd rather PBEM.  Dunno what it is, but every CRPG interface I've used, be it Final Fantasy, ToEE, Morrowind, Diablo 2, or City of Heroes just sucks away my desire to interact with another human being.
 
Rationally, I understand that some people get a kick out of it.  Emotionally, I just don't understand.  What really boggles my mind -- and I mean to the point of wondering if an intervention or trip to the doctor was necessary -- is the guy who backed out of a live P&P because his EQ guild called him up to quest.  WTF?  Cancelling on a prior commitment is bad enough, but it's just weird to cancel the real thing for the computer version.
 
Note:  I don't hate MMORPGs and I'm not trying to rip 'em apart.  I'm just coming from the position of not understanding the appeal.

Quote from: SobekRationally, I understand that some people get a kick out of it.  Emotionally, I just don't understand.  What really boggles my mind -- and I mean to the point of wondering if an intervention or trip to the doctor was necessary -- is the guy who backed out of a live P&P because his EQ guild called him up to quest.  WTF?  Cancelling on a prior commitment is bad enough, but it's just weird to cancel the real thing for the computer version.

I've heard tales of entire gaming groups falling apart because of WoW.  I've lost gamers to it myself.  They get their fix through that, so they have no urge to play tabletop anymore.

The Brand Manager of D&D, after he was let go by WOTC, said WOW had decimated the tabletop (what I would call face to face) rpg industry in 2005.
  He says he's betting on the guys with the 500 million dollars, the WOW guys.

  (shrugs)

  I don't know why WOW is so appealing, and stealing people away.  I have only guesses on the matter.

  Edena_of_Neith

Quote from: the ultimate nullifierI can imagine it being increasingly available and affordable as the years go on, but I can't see it being satisfying for me.

Ditto.  There's something infinitely more satisfying about actually being in the same room with the people you're gaming with.  I guess it would work for me if it's what I *had* to do to game with friends.  After all, I play MMORPG's with friends, but we always seem to have more fun when we're sitting around the game table rather than our seperate monitors.

Quote from: King_StannisDo you guys ever envision a time when people can use videoconferencing/webcam technology to routinely game with people around the country or the world? Being a technological dunce I have no idea how far we are away from the days when we can push a button and get a good clear picture and ungarbled sound.


Any thoughts?

I do it off and on.

Webcam, microphone, 5mb cable modem, YIM.

Let's me run a game for several of my players that aren't regionally accessable any more.

Quote from: Edena_of_NeithThe Brand Manager of D&D, after he was let go by WOTC, said WOW had decimated the tabletop (what I would call face to face) rpg industry in 2005.
  He says he's betting on the guys with the 500 million dollars, the WOW guys.

  (shrugs)

  I don't know why WOW is so appealing, and stealing people away.  I have only guesses on the matter.

  Edena_of_Neith

It's simple; the smash and loot style of play that many D&D gamers like is done well enough in games like WoW, that it's an acceptable substitute.  Plus, you don't have to worry about spending hours on game setup, whether players will show up, arguments with the GMs over rules and so forth.  It's immediate and up front, where you can log in and play on your own schedual and play for as long as you like.  Plus, it provides whole different challenges that D&D doesn't have- like resource management and skill leveling.

Quote from: OddveigIt's simple; the smash and loot style of play that many D&D gamers like is done well enough in games like WoW, that it's an acceptable substitute.  Plus, you don't have to worry about spending hours on game setup, whether players will show up, arguments with the GMs over rules and so forth.  It's immediate and up front, where you can log in and play on your own schedual and play for as long as you like.  Plus, it provides whole different challenges that D&D doesn't have- like resource management and skill leveling.

Not to mention it's more immersive for those with less-than-well-developed imaginations (thereby appealing to the non-dnd and undeveloped-potential-dnd players as well). It provides a level of anonymity. It doesn't require pesky and unimportant activities like roleplaying or anything. It lets you see in graphic terms how cool and well-dressed your character is. It has hot girls to look at, even if they're really sweaty, balding 45yo men IRL. It lets you "own" stuff and be "uber".

I worry that by the time that technology arrives, the CRPG experience will largely have supplanted PnP games. Right now, the DM tools for NWN are too clunky to encourage many people to try it out (not to mention that NWN doesn't support "roleplaying" as it's defined in the PnP context). Five years from now, that might not be the case - and even if it is, I'm not convinced that people won't be content to interact with the increasingly sophisticated AI, and play in DM-less games.

I agree that part of the "true" PnP experience is sharing physical space, and that video technology would detract from that, but I'm not especially confident that PnP is going to survive in a state where the option will matter.

Quote from: Edena_of_NeithThe Brand Manager of D&D, after he was let go by WOTC, said WOW had decimated the tabletop (what I would call face to face) rpg industry in 2005.
  He says he's betting on the guys with the 500 million dollars, the WOW guys.

  (shrugs)

  I don't know why WOW is so appealing, and stealing people away.  I have only guesses on the matter.

  Edena_of_Neith

I wouldn't take anything he says as much more than sour grapes.

Today, Mike Mearls commented on my blog to the effect that "no one in Wizards is talking about the death of gaming" (in response to my recent editorial on this year's "state of the industry" report). I would think that if the truth were otherwise, he would have chosen not to comment; since no one had a gun to his head.

Its not particularly logical to think that WoW stops people from buying D&D products. It IS logical, mind you, to think that WoW stops people who don't play D&D already from getting into that game. But that really should not have any kind of "devastating" effect on the current D&D sales.

RPGPundit

Quote from: EveryoneI agree that part of the "true" PnP experience is sharing physical space, and that video technology would detract from that, but I'm not especially confident that PnP is going to survive in a state where the option will matter.

Survive?

I assume you mean "in notable numbers."

Cuz, uh, I'll still be playing, writing, and buying.  And I can make new players, if need be.  And there's plently enough like me around.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenCuz, uh, I'll still be playing, writing, and buying.  And I can make new players, if need be.  And there's plently enough like me around.

Damn Rights :deviousgrin:

Be it FTF or Online