TheRPGSite

Over at the Big Purple, Plume writes of Driving off in the roleplayer's short bus (a farewell) (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?p=6485396)

Basically, she's tired of threadcrapping by Forgers.

Quote from: PlumeI'm tired of arguing with people who think that my preferred approach to characterization is hallucinatory and/or detrimental, and who want me to give up the part of roleplaying games I like most to play things that just don't feel like RPGs to me. I'm nearly as tired of people who want to turn my preference into a dogmatic "ism" just like so many others, and who seem uncomfortable with the idea of recombined inclinations.

--I'm tired of the dominance among independent game authors of conceptual approaches which start by tossing out the things I like and expect me to be grateful for it. I'm tired of trying to be courteous and fair about games I can't enjoy only to run into fresh wave after wave of condescension and worse for the sin of disagreeing with darling ideas. I'm frustrated at seeing what I regard as unhelpful ideas shove in so many places; I'm grateful for the exceptions that seem free of the Forge taint, but I have no particular wish to keep pretending that I think the Forge's approaches can be anything but irrelevant at best to gaming as I enjoy it.

... I currently regard every scrap of time I spent on arguments that gave respect to the Forge manifesto as so much sunk time, as far as my good gaming is concerned. (I appreciate the effort of all those proposing alternative conceptual frameworks, but in the year I've been watching, I haven't seen them gain any real traction. Let a few days go by without someone posting about them, and it'll be back to taking the Forge as given and having to argue away from them all over again.)

Again, I've petitioned Uncle Ronny to reopen his theory subforum. When he shut the sewer lid there, he didn't stop the flow of shit he'd started, he just shucked it off to new channels, it overflowed into rpg.net and elsewhere.

I've posted a response to her as you might expect me to, including recommending her to come here, where she can tell threadcrappers to fuck off. It's always best to talk about what you like rather than what you dislike, gets you further; but over there, someone will always recommend Wushu or bring up GNS. Here at least you can tell them to fuck off.

It's sad that something which began with the aim of promoting new ideas - rpg theory - has ended up by silencing people.

Fucken Forge!

*spits to ward off the evil*

Quote from: JimBobOzAgain, I've petitioned Uncle Ronny to reopen his theory subforum. When he shut the sewer lid there, he didn't stop the flow of shit he'd started, he just shucked it off to new channels, it overflowed into rpg.net and elsewhere.

Well that's a vivid image.

Quote from: JimBobOzFucken Forge!

*spits to ward off the evil*

Your primitive superstitions are as nothing compared with our transcendant might.  We will drown your fora with the festering effluent that pours forth from our wretched brain-sphincters.  Whee!  Playing a stereotyped cliché supervillain is fun!

It's funny how some people claim that over moderation and crushing all but a very narrowly limited lines of expression is somehow "good' for a board and that allowing free fire when it comes to speech is going to drive people away from a board when it seems that quite the opposite is true.

This board is growing and allows free fire speech, while boards like rpg.net and sjg forums tend to lose members who are tired of the excessive, arbitrary and often arrogant speech restrictions imposed by the modcliques.

Well, whenever someone leaves a forum like rpg.net or sjg forums, let's be sure to send them a nice friendly welcome to this one.

After all, here not just fhans of big games are allowed to have their say, unlike rpg.net where what you get away with depends on whether or not you're offending a game or people the mods like.

Aww, fer fuck's sake, do people really not know there are plenty of other RPG forums out there? Not just this one, but Circus Maximus, EN World (neither of which is not just about d20/D&D), and any number of other sites I'm forgetting. Why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Hell, with all the time I've spent on online gaming forums, I may have posted at RPG.net less than a half-dozen times. I rarely go there, and I feel I have more than enough online discussion of RPGs. No offense, but RPG.netters can seem rather provincial in this regard.

:shrug: I actually didn't know it existed until I heard people bitching about it over here.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonAww, fer fuck's sake, do people really not know there are plenty of other RPG forums out there? Not just this one, but Circus Maximus, EN World (neither of which is not just about d20/D&D), and any number of other sites I'm forgetting. Why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Hell, with all the time I've spent on online gaming forums, I may have posted at RPG.net less than a half-dozen times. I rarely go there, and I feel I have more than enough online discussion of RPGs. No offense, but RPG.netters can seem rather provincial in this regard.

RPGnet's a big site, and for the longest time, had a very fine community, and I think that made for a lot of people, like myself, who didn't really see any reason to go anywhere else.  I think that has a lot to do with it.

It's funny, but I didn't used to have any beef with the Forge or the theory wonks.  I wasn't a fan of theory, I thought the whole pursuit was a bit silly, but I appreciated the attempts to more cerebrally examine the games.  I had more beef at the time with a lot of the threadcrappers who seemed to show up at the drop of a hat and scream about "IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN" and ramble a bunch of anti-intellectual garbage.  

And then Ron closed the theory forum.  And all hell broke loose.  Suddenly it was freaking all over RPGnet.  It basically consumed the entire Open forum.

That was when I started losing patience.  And then the more I read of it, the more I realized just how utter shite it all was.  This wasn't an attempt to improve games by examining how they work, it was all by and large just a lot of pseudointellectual bullshit posturing.  

Even the Forge seemed to recognize this.  In his post explaining why the forum was closed, Edwards had, basically states that part od the reason he closed the theory forum was because it had become nothing more than mental masturbation.  It wasn't helping game design, it was if anything, hurting it.  Of course, he also cocked it up as well by further implying that the reason it was masturbation was that they'd already found the One True Way, and no further discussion was necessary.

The result was sending a combine flood of the masturbators and the One True Way types to anywhere else they could find to blather about it, with RPGnet winding up a pretty big target.  Edwards dumped his mess on the rest of the web, and in so doing made it worse.

It's so sad how all these people made her read their posts and then forced her to spend time thinking about and typing responses.  I can't believe that they could have been so cruel in discussing what they like that they didn't think that affirming their own interests naturally meant that they were saying that others' interests were worthless.

Seriously, what the fuck? "I'm tired of the dominance among independent game authors of conceptual approaches which start by tossing out the things I like and expect me to be grateful for it."

Oh, that's hilariously sollopsistic: "They all make their games not for their own enjoyment, but rather solely to force me to acknowledge a playing style that pisses me off! And they make me buy their games, too!"

Driven off by the likes of the nefarious Levi? Anyone know where this dumbass lives? I'll pitch in two bucks to mail a fucking pacifier to this baby.

-Andy

EDIT:

QuoteWell, whenever someone leaves a forum like rpg.net or sjg forums, let's be sure to send them a nice friendly welcome to this one. After all, here not just fhans of big games are allowed to have their say

Yeah, sorry, it's not going to work.  Plume is a total World of Darkness fan. She's really into all the deep setting and immersion that that kind of play brings out. Which, hey, fucking rocks.  I love to do the same thing every once in a while too.

But she'd be sent running for the hills crying in two posts by Pundit and crew, screaming "Pretentious!!! White Wolf Swine!!!! Bruce Baugh!!!" every time she brought up the play that she liked. She'd quickly drop a "I hate it here because four people here don't love my playstyle OMG I'm So Ostracized!" bomb and run away.  

She might find solace in other forums (White Wolf?) but not here.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonAww, fer fuck's sake, do people really not know there are plenty of other RPG forums out there? Not just this one, but Circus Maximus

Circus Maximus? Link?

TIA :)

Quote from: Andy KSeriously, what the fuck? Driven off by the likes of the nefarious Levi? Anyone know where this dumbass lives? I'll pitch in two bucks to mail a fucking pacifier to this baby.

Well said! Alas, we cannot speak thus on that site, so my more reasoned response will have to stand as the most scathing one.

Still, she'll be back. I mean, gleichman always comes back, and that doofus doesn't even game. Fucking BNGs...

Quote from: JimBobOzWell said! Alas, we cannot speak thus on that site, so my more reasoned response will have to stand as the most scathing one.

Dude, I think you're a cock like 60% of the time*, but holy shit when you hit on truth you hit it hard.  Nice, sensible response over there BTW. I wonder if sh'ell read between the lines.

-Andy

*er... I know it's hard to say with a straight face, but really no offense meant. Just stating the obvious.

Never understood the need to announce the fact that one is leaving. Why not just stop posting and hope that you are missed. Seems like a more classy way to do things. A "Where the fuck is so and so" thread seems a hell of a lot cooler than being directed to a sappy "Dear RPGnet, I can't stay ...it hurts me so..." wank fest.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RNever understood the need to announce the fact that one is leaving. Why not just stop posting and hope that you are missed. Seems like a more classy way to do things.

Internet Game Nerd =/= "Classy" :D

Besides, it opens up the "pool game" for the rest of us, where we get to set pools on when people come back.

Like, in this instance, I'd say "You'll see her logging in and browsing Open within a full month, and we'll see her posting again by Spring 2007", and put "5 Virtual Dollars" on it.

And it also adds certain character/quirks to certain posters.  For example, if you look hard enough, you can still probably find every one of James Hargrove's 6-8 flame-out "I'm Leaving, Deleting My Account and Never Coming Back" topic posts going back to 1999-2000. It's cute, actually, when you think about it.

Quote from: Andy KIt's so sad how all these people made her read their posts and then forced her to spend time thinking about and typing responses.  I can't believe that they could have been so cruel in discussing what they like that they didn't think that affirming their own interests naturally meant that they were saying that others' interests were worthless.

She plainly has lost a bit of perspective there, which can happen to any of us.

As I just posted in that thread though, since I stopped reading theory threads on rpg.net or threads in which games with a tiny number of players get exhaustively discussed I'm just finding there's not as much there for me now.  Particularly since frankly there are other sites that host far better story game discussions (storygames for example).  That reduces a lot of rpg.net's utility for me.

That and the modding, the group attacks rule has become fuckwitted in its application and I agree with JimBob that the no personal attacks rule has led to a general feeling of simmering hostility.

So I think she's slightly misidentified the issue, in that nobody makes you read those threads, but I think it is true that rpg.net is awash with ill-informed theory threads and tedious discussions that get derailed by people touting the latest rpg.net and/or indie darling of the month and the signal to noise ratio has deteriorated as a result.

This place is great for grognards, story-games is great for those new age hippy fuckers, I like both sometimes so I like both sites (though I do think as an aside that story-games over time is becoming a lot more Forge dominated than it used to be sadly), rpg.net is no longer particularly grognard friendly and the new age guys who post there are frequently ill-informed or just plain pushy and that does make it less fun than it used to be.

So there really are people that take this shit that seriously? I mean, really? I've never been to the forge and I never will but...Fuck man. :tired:

Quote from: Andy KIt's cute, actually, when you think about it.

Very true :D  I guess you could say, these kinds of threads is the gift that keeps on giving. But I have to say an eyebrow is raised at the emotional investment some folks have in the online forum community they subscribe to.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: TonyLBWhee!  Playing a stereotyped cliché supervillain is fun!

Don't forget your cat!

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c220/rvilliers/Humor/blofeld-cat.jpg)

;)

I would not go as to claim that anyone but Plume can claim Plume as victim. I'm with Balbinus on that, anyway.

Quote from: Elliot WilenCircus Maximus? Link?

TIA :)

http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/forum.php

Quote from: Andy KShe might find solace in other forums (White Wolf?) but not here.

I dunno. I mean, I see what you mean, but this forum seems more likely to welcome just about anyone. Perhaps if given the ability to fire back and call bullshit when someone screams "pretentious!", someone like her might be able to get comfortable here. But, I'll admit that it's probably unlikely.

There is only two kinds of posters who will not thrive on theRPGsite:

1. People who want an unfair advantage when they argue with others; the ability to make others unable to respond in kind, etc.

2. People who are "sensitive".

Everyone else, be they forge-theory fanatics, white-wolf story swine, mainstream gamers, old school grognards, whatever; will be able to do well here.  It just happens that the Forge-Swine and the WW-Swine and.. well, Swine in general, tend to fall under either number 1 or number 2, or (worst of all) both.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit2. People who are "sensitive".

I'm very sensitive.

For example, Andy does this thing with his fingers* that I just can't resist.  I get chills.  And it's because I'm so very, very sensitive... there.**

*Typing, I think it's called.

**In my brain!

That's not the kind of sensitive we were talking about, ya sick freak!

RPGPundit
:p

Quote from: JimBobOzStill, she'll be back. I mean, gleichman always comes back, and that doofus doesn't even game. Fucking BNGs...

Why would you make a lie about something that you don't even have any knowledge of JimBobOz?

Have you seen me post ever again at RPGNet? Have you ever seen me post againt at the Forge? Have you seen me state that I have any significant use for Pundit's new sandbox?

Have you come over to my weekly Sunday Game and determined in some Forge Theory side that my 28 years of weekly gaming hasn't really been gaming?

What an Ass. Keep your damn examples to referencing people to whom they apply.

Yeah, but, and no offense intended, haven't you said you would never come back here- and yet you've been back several times. There's nothing wrong with that, really, people change their minds and all- but other folks are bound to comment on it; such is the nature of primates.

QuoteHave you come over to my weekly Sunday Game and determined in some Forge Theory side that my 28 years of weekly gaming hasn't really been gaming?

What an Ass. Keep your damn examples to referencing people to whom they apply.

Posted in a thread which is about people taking online stuff too seriously...

Gleichman you are hilarious!
I love you man!
Every time I think I got what you are standing for, you just do something totally "out of character"!

"Cinema for the ages". as a german saying goes.
Keep the keyboard busy!

Quote from: AosYeah, but, and no offense intended, haven't you said you would never come back here- and yet you've been back several times. There's nothing wrong with that, really, people change their minds and all- but other folks are bound to comment on it; such is the nature of primates.

I stated up front that I was visiting to see if the site was worth my time and effort for posting. I then stated that it wasn't such a place due to the influence of Pundit, and his request that I don't speak of theory here.

As a result it is not a place for regular visites or for anything serious IMO. I haven't promised to never return that I recall.

I certainly maintain the right return to correct out-right stupid *LIES* like claims that I don't game.

Quote from: gleichmanI stated up front that I was visiting to see if the site was worth my time and effort for posting. I then stated that it wasn't such a place due to the influence of Pundit, and his request that I don't speak of theory here.

Believe me, I dislike Pundit's style of rhetoric in a lot of instances, and I was pretty skeptical of his taking the helm of the RPG Site. But I don't let his "requests" limit what I feel like posting. You shouldn't either. If he starts banning people or closing/deleting threads when someone posts about game theory, then I'll be the first to call bullshit and proclaim him to be a hypocrite. I just don't see that happening, really, despite his fairly mild request to not talk about theory.

Quote from: gleichmanAs a result it is not a place for regular visites or for anything serious IMO.

Well, that's your right to feel that way. But I think this place has shaped up rather well.

As I understood it, he wasn't even necessarily asking people to stop talking theory, so much as asking them to talk about something NEW instead of the same Forge/GNS/Edwards stuff over and over.  

And as was pointed out, it was a request, not an order.

Damn....


I just realized I forgot to tell TBP site that I was never going back!!!

I wonder if it's too late now? :eek:



Excuse me while I go fire up the dramatic prose engine and churn out some serious 'woe is me'...

Quote from: SpikeExcuse me while I go fire up the dramatic prose engine and churn out some serious 'woe is me'...

You could at least flame out. The good ones get remembered for years.

There was a crazy bitch on Tangency Open, never gamed, just loved having a clique worship her there. Went by the name of Redredredderreddest. Confused Feminist type - talked a lot about how cool pr0n was and how it could empower women, then the next day would talk about how it oppressed women. She famously posted pictures of her menstrual art. Yes, she smeared her menstrual blood all over her naked chest and called it "art". Take that, postmodernism!

One day a bunch of leftie types started a petition calling for Tangency to become "an emotionally safe environment." See, they got all upset that sometimes it'd be as much as twenty minutes between someone posting "I hate niggers and faggots", and their getting banned. They were also upset that when they called some racist a dumb cunt, they themselves would get suspended for personal attacks. So they started the petition for the Emotionally Safe Environment. By which they meant, "the popular kids get to abuse those they think are racist/sexist/etcist."

It was a big messy thread, lots of drama and arguments. Red was cautioned about abusing everyone, and responded,

"BAN ME, MOTHERFUCKER."

They obliged her.

So, Spike, if you're going to quit a site, that's the way to do it. Start a big long thread about some stupid shit, then flame out! It's better to burn out than fade away! Well, better for those of us left behind laughing :D

Quote from: JimBobOz"BAN ME, MOTHERFUCKER."

They obliged her.

I remember that thread. It was really amusing how folks were tripping over themselves trying to display their concern for TBP and the direction it should take - oh, the humanity :D

Regards,
David R

Hm.... well, that sounds like a lot of work. Too much work, after all, they should KNOW what a perfect snowflake I am without my having to work at it. I mean, between just dissappearing and hoping they know I'm gone, finding a thread that says something I can get huffy about to dissappear in a puff of logic, or creating a huge drama to go out in a nuclear holocaust...


well, lets say that none of them really say beautiful perfect snowflake so well as actually creating a billboard announcement thread to go out in with my purple prose swansong lingering like sweet memories of the halycon days of basking in my presence
:o

QuoteThe Forgers claim another victim

Looks more like a selfmade victim claiming [at this point in time] "Forgers". *shrug*

Quote from: JimBobOz...There was a crazy bitch on Tangency Open...

Dude.  Woah.  Seriously, that whole thing was probably the best summary of that situation I have EVER READ. (point of fact, she posted the BAN ME, IIRC, on another thread in the Trouble Tickets forum).

WTF? Why are we agreeing on all this shit? Is Jupiter crossing Saturn or something? :D

Also, man, this is bringing me back. Were you around like in 2000-2001, before they upgraded to the new forum system? There was this crazy chick there from the UK. This was like sorta in the nascent form of Tangency, but again it was a woman that didnt roleplay yet fostered this creepy queen-bee clan around her by posting pics of herself and the like... Fuck, I cant remember her name. Unfortunately, no fabulous flame-out story (just another case of how somone who doesnt game could generate a cult of personality by festering in Tangency), rather she just flitted away when the New Forums came.

-Andy

I registered in I think early 2002, though did lurk before that. I don't recall any crazy UK Queen Bee, but they all do kind of blur into each-other, you know?

Tangency seems to attract a lot of non-gamers. Like bulletproof, who'll top any story anyone else posts. See, I like telling tall stories - but I keep it at the gaming table ;)

Quote from: JimBobOzI registered in I think early 2002, though did lurk before that. I don't recall any crazy UK Queen Bee, but they all do kind of blur into each-other, you know?

Tangency seems to attract a lot of non-gamers. Like bulletproof, who'll top any story anyone else posts. See, I like telling tall stories - but I keep it at the gaming table ;)

Yanno, she'd probably make a really good roleplayer if she could direct that Munchausen's imagination towards it.  

Otherwise, it's just really damn wierd.

Quote from: JimBobOz"BAN ME, MOTHERFUCKER."

They obliged her.

Just as a side note, there is no way in hell I could resist such a request, even without the "motherfucker".

Quote from: JimBobOzYou could at least flame out. The good ones get remembered for years.

There was a crazy bitch on Tangency Open, never gamed, just loved having a clique worship her there. Went by the name of Redredredderreddest.
...
 See, they got all upset that sometimes it'd be as much as twenty minutes between someone posting "I hate niggers and faggots", and their getting banned. They were also upset that when they called some racist a dumb cunt, they themselves would get suspended for personal attacks. So they started the petition for the Emotionally Safe Environment. By which they meant, "the popular kids get to abuse those they think are racist/sexist/etcist."

Karma's a bitch.

"There was a crazy bitch on Tangency Open..."  that's my new opening line for future bedtime stories...

Quote from: Andy KAlso, man, this is bringing me back. Were you around like in 2000-2001, before they upgraded to the new forum system? There was this crazy chick there from the UK. This was like sorta in the nascent form of Tangency, but again it was a woman that didnt roleplay yet fostered this creepy queen-bee clan around her by posting pics of herself and the like... Fuck, I cant remember her name.

Honesty, the wife of Dog Rough.  They were from Ireland, if I recall correctly (which I might not).

She liked to tell stories about herself and how she'd get totally shit-faced at the pub, dance on tables, and all the lads loved her and hooted and goaded her on all night long.  And she'd brag about her latest spinal tattoos, and what a fucking genius her 3-year-old daughter was.  Back when RPG.net's "Art of Game Design" forum was worth a crap, Dog Rough used to frequent it, so Honesty would barge into threads and begin posting inane crap, and when anyone would complain about the disruption, she and Dog Rough would accuse them of having no sense of humor.

As I recall, her fluorescence occurred at precisely the time that Tangency was created, and it could be that it was created as a game preserve for the likes of her.  She kept getting chased out of AoGD and shouted down on Open for being a jackass, so Tangency became her stage.  No, she didn't flame out, but I think this was an instance where Wild West justice ran its course -- without need of a moderator, the community as a whole coalesced and let her know just how unwelcome she was on any of the forums.

!i!

Wait, wait.  No.  I think you're referring to the chick from Canada.  Wasn't married to anyone.  Went by the name of Something-Cat or Cat-Something, or Kitty-Somesuch, or whatever.  As I recall, she wasn't obnoxious like Honesty, or all in-you-face like RedRedderReddest, but she tended to play the victim a bit.

!i!

Tangency is definitely one of the worst things that happened to RPG.net.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditTangency is definitely one of the worst things that happened to RPG.net.

Tangency is really no different than "Off Topic Discussion" here.  The difference isn't that the board is a free-for-all discussion place.  the difference is that it's not a place for free speech.  It's a place where you can only speak freely enough not to offend the in-power clique or their heart-felt socio-political preferences.

Quote from: Ian Absentiaall in-you-face like RedRedderReddest

Ah, yes.  Her.

"Oh, look, everyone!  Look at me!  I painted a picture with the bloody mucus oozing from my cooch!  Everyone tell me how much you want to have sex with me!  Here, look at my sex-worker site, but don't degrade me for my completely anti-social and demented preferences!"

Yeah, I remember her. :rolleyes:

Quote from: VellorianTangency is really no different than "Off Topic Discussion" here.  The difference isn't that the board is a free-for-all discussion place.  the difference is that it's not a place for free speech.  It's a place where you can only speak freely enough not to offend the in-power clique or their heart-felt socio-political preferences.

The difference is that over there, you started getting people joining the site just for the off-topic discussion. It stopped being about gamers.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThe difference is that over there, you started getting people joining the site just for the off-topic discussion.

I like pie!

Mango tea!

Scree-fice!

Grap peenar!*

Tee-hee!

Yeah, you beat me to it.

!i!

(*In defense of "grapping peenar", IronRa was one of the better personalities to emerge from Tangency, is still openly adored there, and it's worth noting that even he doesn't like the degree of moderation that's emerged.)

Quote from: RPGPunditThe difference is that over there, you started getting people joining the site just for the off-topic discussion. It stopped being about gamers.

That is quite a valid point.  I hadn't considered that.  I do recall watching various people joining the forum, not because they loved the games and wanted to expand their "monkeysphere."  Rather, they joined to be cheerleaders or supporters for someone who was an existing member.

It was further worsened when Tangency was split up into different "specialty" forums.  That really made it clear that there were "gamers," "music/media" lovers, "miniatures lovers," and whatever.  But there was always "Tangency."  That festering pit of degenerates who sucked up to the mods and created clique after clique in a hugh popularity contest that sucked the very life out of the site.

What's really sad is to realize that Tangency became the Junior High School and High School experiences that the bulk of the "in clique" of Tangency never got to experience because they were too geeky to be admitted when they were in those immature levels of education.

And they treated those outisde their cliques with the same disdain, indifference and bald-faced hatred as they received, magnified by their own perceptions of import and reinforced by the moderators (who were often in collusion with or "members" of the same cliques).

Quote from: RPGPunditThe difference is that over there, you started getting people joining the site just for the off-topic discussion. It stopped being about gamers.

Yeah.  I want this place to be open and welcoming for gamers who want to discuss our hobby and other stuff.  Non-gamers aren't scorned, but their presence is unwelcome in this particular internet space.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHonesty, the wife of Dog Rough.

THAT'S it!  Honesty.  Oh shit, the memories.  Thanks dude, you rock!

-Andy

I'm pleased to see that the mere mention of her name can still make a person's day.

!i!