Over at the Big Purple, Plume writes of Driving off in the roleplayer's short bus (a farewell)

Basically, she's tired of threadcrapping by Forgers.

Quote from: PlumeI'm tired of arguing with people who think that my preferred approach to characterization is hallucinatory and/or detrimental, and who want me to give up the part of roleplaying games I like most to play things that just don't feel like RPGs to me. I'm nearly as tired of people who want to turn my preference into a dogmatic "ism" just like so many others, and who seem uncomfortable with the idea of recombined inclinations.

--I'm tired of the dominance among independent game authors of conceptual approaches which start by tossing out the things I like and expect me to be grateful for it. I'm tired of trying to be courteous and fair about games I can't enjoy only to run into fresh wave after wave of condescension and worse for the sin of disagreeing with darling ideas. I'm frustrated at seeing what I regard as unhelpful ideas shove in so many places; I'm grateful for the exceptions that seem free of the Forge taint, but I have no particular wish to keep pretending that I think the Forge's approaches can be anything but irrelevant at best to gaming as I enjoy it.

... I currently regard every scrap of time I spent on arguments that gave respect to the Forge manifesto as so much sunk time, as far as my good gaming is concerned. (I appreciate the effort of all those proposing alternative conceptual frameworks, but in the year I've been watching, I haven't seen them gain any real traction. Let a few days go by without someone posting about them, and it'll be back to taking the Forge as given and having to argue away from them all over again.)

Again, I've petitioned Uncle Ronny to reopen his theory subforum. When he shut the sewer lid there, he didn't stop the flow of shit he'd started, he just shucked it off to new channels, it overflowed into rpg.net and elsewhere.

I've posted a response to her as you might expect me to, including recommending her to come here, where she can tell threadcrappers to fuck off. It's always best to talk about what you like rather than what you dislike, gets you further; but over there, someone will always recommend Wushu or bring up GNS. Here at least you can tell them to fuck off.

It's sad that something which began with the aim of promoting new ideas - rpg theory - has ended up by silencing people.

Fucken Forge!

*spits to ward off the evil*

Quote from: JimBobOzAgain, I've petitioned Uncle Ronny to reopen his theory subforum. When he shut the sewer lid there, he didn't stop the flow of shit he'd started, he just shucked it off to new channels, it overflowed into rpg.net and elsewhere.

Well that's a vivid image.

Quote from: JimBobOzFucken Forge!

*spits to ward off the evil*

Your primitive superstitions are as nothing compared with our transcendant might.  We will drown your fora with the festering effluent that pours forth from our wretched brain-sphincters.  Whee!  Playing a stereotyped cliché supervillain is fun!

It's funny how some people claim that over moderation and crushing all but a very narrowly limited lines of expression is somehow "good' for a board and that allowing free fire when it comes to speech is going to drive people away from a board when it seems that quite the opposite is true.

This board is growing and allows free fire speech, while boards like rpg.net and sjg forums tend to lose members who are tired of the excessive, arbitrary and often arrogant speech restrictions imposed by the modcliques.

Well, whenever someone leaves a forum like rpg.net or sjg forums, let's be sure to send them a nice friendly welcome to this one.

After all, here not just fhans of big games are allowed to have their say, unlike rpg.net where what you get away with depends on whether or not you're offending a game or people the mods like.

Aww, fer fuck's sake, do people really not know there are plenty of other RPG forums out there? Not just this one, but Circus Maximus, EN World (neither of which is not just about d20/D&D), and any number of other sites I'm forgetting. Why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Hell, with all the time I've spent on online gaming forums, I may have posted at RPG.net less than a half-dozen times. I rarely go there, and I feel I have more than enough online discussion of RPGs. No offense, but RPG.netters can seem rather provincial in this regard.

:shrug: I actually didn't know it existed until I heard people bitching about it over here.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonAww, fer fuck's sake, do people really not know there are plenty of other RPG forums out there? Not just this one, but Circus Maximus, EN World (neither of which is not just about d20/D&D), and any number of other sites I'm forgetting. Why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Hell, with all the time I've spent on online gaming forums, I may have posted at RPG.net less than a half-dozen times. I rarely go there, and I feel I have more than enough online discussion of RPGs. No offense, but RPG.netters can seem rather provincial in this regard.

RPGnet's a big site, and for the longest time, had a very fine community, and I think that made for a lot of people, like myself, who didn't really see any reason to go anywhere else.  I think that has a lot to do with it.

It's funny, but I didn't used to have any beef with the Forge or the theory wonks.  I wasn't a fan of theory, I thought the whole pursuit was a bit silly, but I appreciated the attempts to more cerebrally examine the games.  I had more beef at the time with a lot of the threadcrappers who seemed to show up at the drop of a hat and scream about "IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN" and ramble a bunch of anti-intellectual garbage.  

And then Ron closed the theory forum.  And all hell broke loose.  Suddenly it was freaking all over RPGnet.  It basically consumed the entire Open forum.

That was when I started losing patience.  And then the more I read of it, the more I realized just how utter shite it all was.  This wasn't an attempt to improve games by examining how they work, it was all by and large just a lot of pseudointellectual bullshit posturing.  

Even the Forge seemed to recognize this.  In his post explaining why the forum was closed, Edwards had, basically states that part od the reason he closed the theory forum was because it had become nothing more than mental masturbation.  It wasn't helping game design, it was if anything, hurting it.  Of course, he also cocked it up as well by further implying that the reason it was masturbation was that they'd already found the One True Way, and no further discussion was necessary.

The result was sending a combine flood of the masturbators and the One True Way types to anywhere else they could find to blather about it, with RPGnet winding up a pretty big target.  Edwards dumped his mess on the rest of the web, and in so doing made it worse.

It's so sad how all these people made her read their posts and then forced her to spend time thinking about and typing responses.  I can't believe that they could have been so cruel in discussing what they like that they didn't think that affirming their own interests naturally meant that they were saying that others' interests were worthless.

Seriously, what the fuck? "I'm tired of the dominance among independent game authors of conceptual approaches which start by tossing out the things I like and expect me to be grateful for it."

Oh, that's hilariously sollopsistic: "They all make their games not for their own enjoyment, but rather solely to force me to acknowledge a playing style that pisses me off! And they make me buy their games, too!"

Driven off by the likes of the nefarious Levi? Anyone know where this dumbass lives? I'll pitch in two bucks to mail a fucking pacifier to this baby.

-Andy

EDIT:

QuoteWell, whenever someone leaves a forum like rpg.net or sjg forums, let's be sure to send them a nice friendly welcome to this one. After all, here not just fhans of big games are allowed to have their say

Yeah, sorry, it's not going to work.  Plume is a total World of Darkness fan. She's really into all the deep setting and immersion that that kind of play brings out. Which, hey, fucking rocks.  I love to do the same thing every once in a while too.

But she'd be sent running for the hills crying in two posts by Pundit and crew, screaming "Pretentious!!! White Wolf Swine!!!! Bruce Baugh!!!" every time she brought up the play that she liked. She'd quickly drop a "I hate it here because four people here don't love my playstyle OMG I'm So Ostracized!" bomb and run away.  

She might find solace in other forums (White Wolf?) but not here.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonAww, fer fuck's sake, do people really not know there are plenty of other RPG forums out there? Not just this one, but Circus Maximus

Circus Maximus? Link?

TIA

Quote from: Andy KSeriously, what the fuck? Driven off by the likes of the nefarious Levi? Anyone know where this dumbass lives? I'll pitch in two bucks to mail a fucking pacifier to this baby.

Well said! Alas, we cannot speak thus on that site, so my more reasoned response will have to stand as the most scathing one.

Still, she'll be back. I mean, gleichman always comes back, and that doofus doesn't even game. Fucking BNGs...

Quote from: JimBobOzWell said! Alas, we cannot speak thus on that site, so my more reasoned response will have to stand as the most scathing one.

Dude, I think you're a cock like 60% of the time*, but holy shit when you hit on truth you hit it hard.  Nice, sensible response over there BTW. I wonder if sh'ell read between the lines.

-Andy

*er... I know it's hard to say with a straight face, but really no offense meant. Just stating the obvious.

Never understood the need to announce the fact that one is leaving. Why not just stop posting and hope that you are missed. Seems like a more classy way to do things. A "Where the fuck is so and so" thread seems a hell of a lot cooler than being directed to a sappy "Dear RPGnet, I can't stay ...it hurts me so..." wank fest.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RNever understood the need to announce the fact that one is leaving. Why not just stop posting and hope that you are missed. Seems like a more classy way to do things.

Internet Game Nerd =/= "Classy"

Besides, it opens up the "pool game" for the rest of us, where we get to set pools on when people come back.

Like, in this instance, I'd say "You'll see her logging in and browsing Open within a full month, and we'll see her posting again by Spring 2007", and put "5 Virtual Dollars" on it.

And it also adds certain character/quirks to certain posters.  For example, if you look hard enough, you can still probably find every one of James Hargrove's 6-8 flame-out "I'm Leaving, Deleting My Account and Never Coming Back" topic posts going back to 1999-2000. It's cute, actually, when you think about it.

Quote from: Andy KIt's so sad how all these people made her read their posts and then forced her to spend time thinking about and typing responses.  I can't believe that they could have been so cruel in discussing what they like that they didn't think that affirming their own interests naturally meant that they were saying that others' interests were worthless.

She plainly has lost a bit of perspective there, which can happen to any of us.

As I just posted in that thread though, since I stopped reading theory threads on rpg.net or threads in which games with a tiny number of players get exhaustively discussed I'm just finding there's not as much there for me now.  Particularly since frankly there are other sites that host far better story game discussions (storygames for example).  That reduces a lot of rpg.net's utility for me.

That and the modding, the group attacks rule has become fuckwitted in its application and I agree with JimBob that the no personal attacks rule has led to a general feeling of simmering hostility.

So I think she's slightly misidentified the issue, in that nobody makes you read those threads, but I think it is true that rpg.net is awash with ill-informed theory threads and tedious discussions that get derailed by people touting the latest rpg.net and/or indie darling of the month and the signal to noise ratio has deteriorated as a result.

This place is great for grognards, story-games is great for those new age hippy fuckers, I like both sometimes so I like both sites (though I do think as an aside that story-games over time is becoming a lot more Forge dominated than it used to be sadly), rpg.net is no longer particularly grognard friendly and the new age guys who post there are frequently ill-informed or just plain pushy and that does make it less fun than it used to be.

So there really are people that take this shit that seriously? I mean, really? I've never been to the forge and I never will but...Fuck man. :tired:

Quote from: Andy KIt's cute, actually, when you think about it.

Very true  I guess you could say, these kinds of threads is the gift that keeps on giving. But I have to say an eyebrow is raised at the emotional investment some folks have in the online forum community they subscribe to.

Regards,
David R