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The first Fantasy Heartbreaker I've seen in years

Started by TristramEvans, January 27, 2015, 01:26:04 AM

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Nexus

#30
January 30, 2015, 07:35:53 PM Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 07:43:58 PM by Nexus
Quote from: Ladybird;813041OTOH, at least they've got something out there., so... that's something.

Remember, "heartbreaker" wasn't intended as a synonym for "bad".

All right, here's where I asked a(nother) stupid question: What is a Fantasy Heartbreaker? I've heard the term many times but I'm not certain what it exactly means.

Edit: Never mind, should have read just a little further. OTOH, Huzzah, I wasn't alone!
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Nexus

#31
January 30, 2015, 07:45:00 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;813201Warning: Ron Edwards

Basically an independent fantasy RPG heavily based on D&D (but MOAR!!!) that makes many grandiose claims about innovation that are extremely dated and show a lack of knowledge ofother RPGs that have done the same thing years ago, but are "heartbreaking" in that they are obviously labours of love and the product of genuine enthusiasm by the author, and may even contain one or 2 little pieces of brilliance, despite the fact they are pretty much doomed.

Sounds a little like Exalted.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

JamesV

#32
January 30, 2015, 09:35:11 PM
Credit where credit is due. Edwards' definition of a Fantasy Heartbreaker is proof that even a stopped clock is right twice a day. And that KS game is that in spades.
Running: Dogs of WAR - Beer & Pretzels & Bullets
Planning to Run: Godbound or Stars Without Number
Playing: Star Wars D20 Rev.

A lack of moderation doesn\'t mean saying every asshole thing that pops into your head.

TristramEvans

#33
January 31, 2015, 12:20:34 AM Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:22:52 AM by TristramEvans
Quote from: Omega;813333Well some of the "heartbreakers" can come across as pretentious when they make claims like being soooooo much better than those dirty "old school" RPGs. Or how they are soooo much easier. and so on. When oft they arent.

Thats the ugly flipside of the heartbreaker coin and why I gave this new KS points for not descending into that pit.

Oh yeah, I wasn't looking at it from that PoV.

 I can be blind to pretentiousness sometimes, in all honesty, because I read a heartbreaker author saying "this game is so much better than those other RPGs before it" and all I hear is "I have not done my research and this project I've poured my heart and soul into is going to fail miserably because I'm simply unaware of the majority of this hobby"

TristramEvans

#34
January 31, 2015, 12:27:23 AM Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:29:31 AM by TristramEvans
Quote from: Nexus;813345Sounds a little like Exalted.

Well, 2 things prevent that: Exalted is from a major publisher, rather than the labour of love of a single author or a small group of friends, so no one feels the swell of empathy and tragedy when White Wolf f---'s up. And secondly, Exalted was financially successful.

Also, granted I only ever read the first edition of Exalted, but it seemed a typical 90s zeitgeist game with a unique magic system and a mildly-novel-in-that-it-wasnt- European setting.

Nexus

#35
January 31, 2015, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;813397Well, 2 things prevent that: Exalted is from a major publisher, rather than the labour of love of a single author or a small group of friends, so no one feels the swell of empathy and tragedy when White Wolf f---'s up. And secondly, Exalted was financially successful.

Also, granted I only ever read the first edition of Exalted, but it seemed a typical 90s zeitgeist game with a unique magic system and a mildly-novel-in-that-it-wasnt- European setting.

 I was more thinking of the incredible pretension and insistence that this SO MUCH MORE than D and D (which reached a high water mark with that Evolve your Game bullshit).

But yeah, you can't call Exalted a "Fantasy Heartbreaker" in a pure sense but I think it does share some qualities.
Remember when Illinois Nazis where a joke in the Blue Brothers movie?

Democracy, meh? (538)

 "The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it."

Omega

#36
January 31, 2015, 04:33:43 PM
Quote from: Nexus;813512But yeah, you can't call Exalted a "Fantasy Heartbreaker" in a pure sense but I think it does share some qualities.

Exalted (and most of WW's stuff) is more an ego trip.

Phillip

#37
February 01, 2015, 08:02:12 PM
I think the notion that D&D-ish means heartbreaking failure is probably outdated, unless you've got a heart that can't be satisfied by anything less than knocking the D&D brand from its position. Something thoroughly novel isn't likely to do that, either!

Maybe the World of Darkness line at least came close in its heyday, but it doesn't seem to have held such strength in the long run. (I'll gladly be corrected by more knowledgable folks.)
And we are here as on a darkling plain  ~ Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, ~ Where ignorant armies clash by night.

Omega

#38
February 03, 2015, 02:57:18 AM
WOD more carved out its own niche and dominated it untill they screwed it up. Much like Call of Cthulhu did, sans the screwing up part. Though Delta Green seemed determined to make up for that oversight.

TheShadow

#39
February 04, 2015, 03:04:32 AM
Sadly the era of heartbreakers is pretty much over. Pre-2010, people regularly popped their heads up with their sheaf of notes for their bestest RPG evar that had been "in development" since 1984. Over the last few years, however, that kind of naivete has become rare. There are only so many isolated nerds who started with TSR D&D in this world, and most of those who have a heartbreaker in them have already gifted it to us.
You can shake your fists at the sky. You can do a rain dance. You can ignore the clouds completely. But none of them move the clouds.

- Dave "The Inexorable" Noonan solicits community feedback before 4e\'s release

TristramEvans

#40
February 04, 2015, 03:48:23 AM
Quote from: The_Shadow;814019Sadly the era of heartbreakers is pretty much over. Pre-2010, people regularly popped their heads up with their sheaf of notes for their bestest RPG evar that had been "in development" since 1984. Over the last few years, however, that kind of naivete has become rare. There are only so many isolated nerds who started with TSR D&D in this world, and most of those who have a heartbreaker in them have already gifted it to us.

Mostly true, but then something like Sol comes around, and I learn once again never to doubt the ignorance and naivety at large of the geeks of the world.

The Butcher

#41
February 04, 2015, 04:35:08 AM
Quote from: The_Shadow;814019There are only so many isolated nerds who started with TSR D&D in this world, and most of those who have a heartbreaker in them have already gifted it to us.

Especially since the OSR all but made it acceptable to package your TSR D&D houserules with comissioned art and sell it under the OGL. ;)

Which is awesome, BTW. The more the merrier, I say.

Omega

#42
February 04, 2015, 07:09:34 AM
Quote from: TristramEvans;814023Mostly true, but then something like Sol comes around, and I learn once again never to doubt the ignorance and naivety at large of the geeks of the world.

You see it in board gaming too.

Someone comes along with this great new card game! And its a CCG!

And then we lower the boom on them about the cold hard fact that the CCG craze died a decade and a half ago (except in Japan) and that retailers are now actively resisting CCGs and urging publishers to move to standalones or expansions or even LCG formats. Not to mention the fact that CCGs are some of the costliest games to produce due to the art. Minis heavy games are the other one.

Doctor Jest

#43
February 05, 2015, 06:33:23 PM
The only potential obstacle to our project (once successfully funded) is the rise of printing costs. However, due to the technical advances made in digital printing over the past ten years, the cost of printing has been reduced enormously. Therefore, the cost of printing is unlikely to rise.

Someone has never had something printed before, apparently. I agree that not getting funded is the win condition for this campaign.

The character sheet looks like something I'd expect to see in a 1970s Sci-Fi TV show on a screen somewhere.

Or maybe it's so you can show everyone the bad place where regular D&D touched you.

Emperor Norton

#44
February 05, 2015, 07:39:32 PM
Quote from: Omega;814033You see it in board gaming too.

Someone comes along with this great new card game! And its a CCG!

And then we lower the boom on them about the cold hard fact that the CCG craze died a decade and a half ago (except in Japan) and that retailers are now actively resisting CCGs and urging publishers to move to standalones or expansions or even LCG formats. Not to mention the fact that CCGs are some of the costliest games to produce due to the art. Minis heavy games are the other one.

I wouldn't say the CCG craze died so much as "If you aren't Magic, Pokemon, or Yu-gi-oh! don't even try." (or well, have an already established base, L5R still does OK enough to keep going, and still outsells its RPG (then again, outselling most non-D&D RPGs is pretty trivial)).

Magic still makes crazy money, probably more than it ever has. Its just that NEW CCGs don't tend to do well.

And the Collectible portion can still do well, you just need a something solid to nail it on that is relatively new or different (and a great license doesn't hurt), like the Dice Masters game (first license was Marvel, then D&D, then Yu-Gi-Oh!, then DC...)
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