OTOH, at least they've got something out there., so... that's something.

Remember, "heartbreaker" wasn't intended as a synonym for "bad".

Well thats darn wordy. No. Really. Some of that is just convoluted for convoluted sake. And this is supposed to be easier?

Points to them for not being dicks about it, and looks like an honest, if a little overwrought, effort. Which is worlds more than some others can say.

I appreciate the fact that the rules are tied to the setting. There's enough generic rpg systems out there, that I tend to prefer systems that start with setting first. But that should mean, to me, that the pitch for the game should be based on the setting. All I know from the Kickstarter and the webpage is that there is a setting, and its got some interesting enough art.

Even so, though, I prefer game rules themselves to make use of standard language to make it easier to understand, reference, and explain to new players. Even a Gygaxism like "The Amelioration Chart" is a bit of an aesthetic turn-off for me. I'm interested in how the one chart works, but again, no explanation of any sort.

I think if their Kickstarter concentrated less on stories about how the game system was written or why its awesome and more on pitching the world and providing an overview of the system, it would be a stronger sell.

I'm curious just based on the game's graphic design, and am considering pitching in $25 for a copy of the rules just because. But I have other things to buy, and the relative lack of any information (and pointless reviews from "playtesters" aka the author's friends) has held me back.

What exactly is a "fantasy heartbreaker" and what distinguishes it from plain old fantasy?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;813198What exactly is a "fantasy heartbreaker" and what distinguishes it from plain old fantasy?

Warning: Ron Edwards

Basically an independent fantasy RPG heavily based on D&D (but MOAR!!!) that makes many grandiose claims about innovation that are extremely dated and show a lack of knowledge ofother RPGs that have done the same thing years ago, but are "heartbreaking" in that they are obviously labours of love and the product of genuine enthusiasm by the author, and may even contain one or 2 little pieces of brilliance, despite the fact they are pretty much doomed.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;813198What exactly is a "fantasy heartbreaker" and what distinguishes it from plain old fantasy?

Pretentiousness.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;813211Pretentiousness.

Quite the opposite, actually.


"Naive enthusiasm" is what I'd call the primary distinguishing factor.

Quote from: TristramEvans;813201Basically an independent fantasy RPG heavily based on D&D (but MOAR!!!) that makes many grandiose claims about innovation that are extremely dated and show a lack of knowledge ofother RPGs that have done the same thing years ago, but are "heartbreaking" in that they are obviously labours of love and the product of genuine enthusiasm by the author, and may even contain one or 2 little pieces of brilliance, despite the fact they are pretty much doomed.

Indeed. Contrast this to stuff like OSR games, which don't come under the heartbreaker label because they're not trying to innovate (And failing due to a lack of awareness of the competition), they're trying to be D&D and succeeding at being D&D.

Quote from: Ladybird;813233Indeed. Contrast this to stuff like OSR games, which don't come under the heartbreaker label because they're not trying to innovate (And failing due to a lack of awareness of the competition), they're trying to be D&D and succeeding at being D&D.

Yes, I honestly thought the OSR had heralded the end of Heartbreakers in general.

Quote from: TristramEvans;813235Yes, I honestly thought the OSR had heralded the end of Heartbreakers in general.

I'd be very surprised if anything ever caused the end of heartbreakers.

They're probably just less visible today because getting a game out is so much easier, so there are more games out, so the heartbreakers don't get as much attention as the games which succeed at their goals.

I think of fantasy heartbreakers as sets of house rules that slip the leash and go  rogue. Given that everyone who has played D&D (or whatever) for more than 5 hours has a couple sets of house rules bouncing around their hard drive, I think we should all be sympathetic to the heartbreaker phenomenon. I've got fantasy heartbreakers based on Chainmail, Basic D&D and The Fantasy Trip bouncing around the internet; they are all sort of stupid and semi-developed, but I'm not embarrassed to have written them.

Quote from: Ladybird;813244They're probably just less visible today because getting a game out is so much easier, so there are more games out, so the heartbreakers don't get as much attention as the games which succeed at their goals.

Good point. Before, if you were actually publishing a game, you had to be crazy passionate about it to get through all the hoops and you were desperate for the attention.

Nowadays? I could write up a game over the weekend and publish it at no cost.

Quote from: Ladybird;813244I'd be very surprised if anything ever caused the end of heartbreakers.

They're probably just less visible today because getting a game out is so much easier, so there are more games out, so the heartbreakers don't get as much attention as the games which succeed at their goals.

This. As long as people play D&D and go "I can do so much better than that" without first checking, y'know, the world for RPGs other than D&D, fantasy heartbreakers will live on.

As an old attending used to say, "read more and invent less."

I remember at CMU ~20 years ago the CA department had this nifty 'story interactive' thing they were working on, and wrangling with issues of object visibility across 'spaces' and so on.

I was asked to do some minor testing by a friend on the project and for feedback.

As diplomatically as I could, I pointed out that MUDs and similar had been pretty much been doing EXACTLY that for close to 10 years at that point, and maybe it'd save some time and effort to go see what had been developed already.

There was sort of a distant 'yes, yes, that sounds cute' implicit dismissal as they continued to play lungfish.

Quote from: TristramEvans;813213Quite the opposite, actually.


"Naive enthusiasm" is what I'd call the primary distinguishing factor.

Well some of the "heartbreakers" can come across as pretentious when they make claims like being soooooo much better than those dirty "old school" RPGs. Or how they are soooo much easier. and so on. When oft they arent.

Thats the ugly flipside of the heartbreaker coin and why I gave this new KS points for not descending into that pit.