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The Fatal Catch-22 of Gaming

Started by RPGPundit, September 03, 2006, 03:32:21 PM

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Levi Kornelsen

Quote from: JamesVAnd if you write a newsletter, I'll subscribe to it.

My newsletter is for local LARPing.  Seriously.

But I do write a journal.

http://the-tall-man.livejournal.com/

Oh, and I'm writing a game.

ColonelHardisson

Quote from: RPGPunditSettembrini, are we talking about the same wilderlands?
Its the ULTIMATE low prep-time. You plant the adventurers down on a hex, they start moving and you see what they move into.

RPGPundit

I think what Settembrini is getting at is that the Wilderlands has tons of great adventure hooks (and bear in mind I was part of the team that did the update), but one still has to provide stats for any encounters. It's not that fleshed out. Ptolus is fleshed out, and pretty much has everything one needs right there and ready to use - stat blocks, cross-references to other related encounters, etc.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

RPGPundit

Quote from: ColonelHardissonI think what Settembrini is getting at is that the Wilderlands has tons of great adventure hooks (and bear in mind I was part of the team that did the update), but one still has to provide stats for any encounters. It's not that fleshed out. Ptolus is fleshed out, and pretty much has everything one needs right there and ready to use - stat blocks, cross-references to other related encounters, etc.

It would seem to me that this isn't a huge issue, given that you can just use the bog-standard monster manual stats for anything that isn't actually stated out in the books...

RPGPundit
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Settembrini

QuoteIt would seem to me that this isn't a huge issue, given that you can just use the bog-standard monster manual stats for anything that isn't actually stated out in the books...
NPCs with class levels? Much work!
Dungeons?
Traps?
Murder Mysteries?
Clues?
Handouts?
Not seen any of this in the Wilderlands Box.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

RPGPundit

Quote from: SettembriniNPCs with class levels? Much work!
Dungeons?
Traps?
Murder Mysteries?
Clues?
Handouts?
Not seen any of this in the Wilderlands Box.

I think its the difference between "old-school" and "new style" play here: if I'm running wilderlands, I'm playing an "oldschool" game and I will almost certainly do these things by either:
a. Making it all up as I go along.
b. generating it randomly
or
c. using the stats directly out of the monster manual/books.

So if you're in that old-school mode of thinking none of this takes any time at all.

Of course, Ptolus will be in a new-school mode of thinking and play, and if it didn't fully stat stuff out,  running an actual game in that setting would be a bitch of a hassle, because it would probably ruin the "atmosphere" if everything felt randomly generated or tacked on; whereas in a setting like the Wilderlands that's part of the charm.

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Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

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Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

ColonelHardisson

Quote from: RPGPunditIt would seem to me that this isn't a huge issue, given that you can just use the bog-standard monster manual stats for anything that isn't actually stated out in the books...

RPGPundit

It's a lot easier to use one book than to have to reference several others while in the middle of a session.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

Settembrini

Well you can get away with winging the stats. There is enough source materail to pull from for D&D.

But you gotta prepare an adventure nonetheless. And you had to do it in oldskool times too.

riddles
conflicts
puzzles
traps
handouts
maps!
dungeons
treassure
etc. ad nauseam

So, praytell, if Wilderlands is so "easy to use" why do you play warhammer, or prep intensive roman campaign or T1-4 instead? Haven't seen any Wilderlands replay fronm you.
Come on Pundit, I like Wilderlands too, But it is as useful as a Traveller Sector: Great Inspiration and baseline. But not ready to use...

EDIT: Pundit you have GMed 3.x, do you? At higher levels?
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Settembrini

BTW, you didn't answer my HEX request...
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

RPGPundit

Trust me that I want to run a Wilderlands campaign, but coming fresh off from my D&D Classic campaign it wasn't the right moment. Its time WILL come, I assure you.  Shit, the Wilderlands is the default setting I had in my head when I wrote up FtA.

As for the hex, I don't get what your point is, do you just want me to name a random hex?

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Settembrini

Yes name a hex, I look it up and we'll talk about how to play with just that info and no further prep.
Boy the bugaboo you are making out of Wilderlands want me to actually have something like that: Exploration, Adventure w/o prep time!
I still don't believe it, but I'm open enough to be proven wrong.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

cnath.rm

I would be interested in this experiment on general principles just because I'm a fan of Necromancer Games and am looking down the road at trying to pick up a copy myself.
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Caesar Slaad

Quote from: SettembriniYes name a hex, I look it up and we'll talk about how to play with just that info and no further prep.
Boy the bugaboo you are making out of Wilderlands want me to actually have something like that: Exploration, Adventure w/o prep time!
I still don't believe it, but I'm open enough to be proven wrong.

It's noteworthy that just because you couldn't do it comfortably without prep time, that someone else couldn't. For some GMs, this could be just the sort of info they need to get rolling for their type of game (which might not include many of the items you cite above in your list of necessities) with minimal prep time, making up all remaining details on the fly.
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Settembrini

QuoteIt's noteworthy that just because you couldn't do it comfortably without prep time, that someone else couldn't. For some GMs, this could be just the sort of info they need to get rolling for their type of game (which might not include many of the items you cite above in your list of necessities) with minimal prep time, making up all remaining details on the fly.

I totally believe in that possibility, but I want to actually see it. Let's try this, maybe in Pistols @ Dawn thread?
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

blakkie

Quote from: Caesar SlaadIt's noteworthy that just because you couldn't do it comfortably without prep time, that someone else couldn't. For some GMs, this could be just the sort of info they need to get rolling for their type of game (which might not include many of the items you cite above in your list of necessities) with minimal prep time, making up all remaining details on the fly.
I think it is less to do with ability than with Settembrini's standards. From the RIFTS gaming example he gave I believe he brings a lot to the table. Literally and figuratively. He is very detailed and explicit about what is seen.  To put it roughly in painting terms he is sort of a Realism vs. Impressionism.  He provides the finer details instead of the viewer(player) doing so.

I believe it primarily a difference in style. Which is cool. It sounds like he executes his style well. Even though it's not my normal cup of tea, I imagine I'd appreciate and enjoy the occational game with him GMing.
"Because honestly? I have no idea what you do. None." - Pierce Inverarity

ColonelHardisson

Quote from: SettembriniI totally believe in that possibility, but I want to actually see it. Let's try this, maybe in Pistols @ Dawn thread?

Honestly, I used to do it back in 1e. At that time, I knew the rules and monster stats so well I could run it from memory. Now, though, there's no way I could do it.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.