It ought to be main stream. The "most people" you're talking about are people who already are gamers. THIS is the point.

4e suxxors and I'm going to post about how much it sucks in every single thread on this 4rum and every 4rum, 4evar!

Do we really need to drag in the "4e sucks" argument in this thread?  Can't we just have one positive thread when the topic is this innocuous?

***back on topic***
For races I want to see include the exotics: Aarakocra, Centaurs, Sea Elves, Sprite, and Thri-Kreen.  Mostly because they offer something new and different from the general demi-humans.

If we're going to go with "more of the same" races, then let's see some Half-Giants, Muls, and/or Vistani.

Please, no Giffs.


I'm less sure about classes.  I don't really care about other power sources, and I'm kind of waiting to see what other "builds" they showcase in the other Power books.  Plus, I'm more of a martial guy.  So, I suppose my only two wish list items would be:
* A full-on gladiator class that optimizes using simple weapons, unarmed combat, and dirty tricks.
* A knight or cavalier type class who wears heavy armor by default and whose powers are based on mounted combat.  I really think this is the biggest oversight of the game so far - a complete lack of focus on mounted combat.

But then, I suppose whole new classes for them is kind of overkill so maybe just a couple more "build / class options" would do it.

The Stormwracked races are cool:

Those would be:



Darfellan (which are the human-ish orca race)




Aventi (sea-dwelling humans)



Hadozee (sorta based off of Yazirians) also appeared as a PC race in Stormwrack.


And I think sea elves were in there too, but they were actually the least interesting.

I want a psionic / shadow focus, though I expect a psionic / ki focus.

I'd like to see illusionist (shadow controller), necromancer (shadow leader), wilder (psionic striker), soulblade (psionic defender), and psion (psionic controller) as base classes in it. I'd also like to see a shadow striker (Some sort of assassin?), a martial controller (A swashbuckler class), and a psionic leader (An empath or thrallherd, maybe). That's eight classes.

I'd like to see, racewise:

Intelligent undead
Kalashtar / Elans (provided they aren't in the Eberron PH)
Thri-kreen
Illumians
Githzerai

I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.

I would like to see Psionic, Shadow, and Ki power sources.

And the Giff.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;292429I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.

It wouldn't be unprecedented.  The Requiem: Grim Harvest boxed set for the 2e Ravenloft line was all about playing undead characters - as skeletons, ghosts, zombies, wraiths, wights, shadows, spectres, liches, vampires, mummies, ghouls, or ghasts.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;292438And the Giff.

Bastard  

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;292429I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.

I would love an intelligent undead race as well. We kinda had the basics of one in the 3e Necropolitans.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292452I would love an intelligent undead race as well. We kinda had the basics of one in the 3e Necropolitans.

but that would play right into the 4e is WoW argument...

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;292429I want a psionic / shadow focus, though I expect a psionic / ki focus.

I'd like to see illusionist (shadow controller), necromancer (shadow leader), wilder (psionic striker), soulblade (psionic defender), and psion (psionic controller) as base classes in it. I'd also like to see a shadow striker (Some sort of assassin?), a martial controller (A swashbuckler class), and a psionic leader (An empath or thrallherd, maybe). That's eight classes.

I'd like to see, racewise:

Intelligent undead
Kalashtar / Elans (provided they aren't in the Eberron PH)
Thri-kreen
Illumians
Githzerai

I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.

Yeah, I'd like to see the Soulknife too, as well as the whole psionic array of classes and races.  

Honestly, I don't know how they'll be able to do a race of sentient undead without infringing on World of Warcraft IP.  Now, if Sword & Sorcery Studios does a licsensed 4e D&D supplement with WoW races and classes, it would do fairly well.

Quote from: mhensley;292460but that would play right into the 4e is WoW argument...

Who cares?

Quote from: jgants;292450Bastard  

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292452I would love an intelligent undead race as well. We kinda had the basics of one in the 3e Necropolitans.

I'd like something like them, but without the fiddly character recreation aspect.

Quote from: mhensley;292460but that would play right into the 4e is WoW argument...

Undead PCs were available in 3rd, they just weren't very common. And many of the undead PC options were overly complicated, overly powerful, or required you to reach a high level to access them.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;292429I'd like to see, racewise:

Intelligent undead
Kalashtar / Elans (provided they aren't in the Eberron PH)
Thri-kreen
Illumians
Githzerai

I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.

I guess, Kalashtar will be the Eberronian name for the Deva. After all, they have to introduce 4 new races to the setting already: Tieflings, Dragonborn, Goliaths, and Eladrin. (Eladrin are simple, if the stick to the 3.5 campaign setting. Eladrin are already mentioned as lords of the fae plane there. Have some emigration and everything's fine.)

Furthermore that's pretty much what they did with the elves on Faerun. Moonelves and Sunelves are Eladrin, Wildelves and Woodelves are Elves.



Otherwise your selection is not bad. The race selection in 4e is more about archetypes. Mearls mentioned that, when he was asked about Half-Giants. (Too similar to Goliaths.) So there might be one race of upgraded humans but not two. (Elans + Illumians)

Intelligent Undead on the other hand, could certainly be such an archetype.

Illumians were mentioned as a mostly extinct race in the Manual of Planes already BTW.

Quote from: 1of3;292613I guess, Kalashtar will be the Eberronian name for the Deva. After all, they have to introduce 4 new races to the setting already: Tieflings, Dragonborn, Goliaths, and Eladrin. (Eladrin are simple, if the stick to the 3.5 campaign setting. Eladrin are already mentioned as lords of the fae plane there. Have some emigration and everything's fine.)

Furthermore that's pretty much what they did with the elves on Faerun. Moonelves and Sunelves are Eladrin, Wildelves and Woodelves are Elves.

The new four races won't be too difficult, I don't think. If I had to guess, I'd put Eladrin as the Aerenal, with the Valenar and the Khorvaire natives as elves. Goliaths are already in Eberron in the mountains of Khorvaire (Darguun and Droam, IIRC). Dragonborn will simply be from Argonessen and Seren (which are mostly unexplored IIRC, anyhow).

Of them, Tieflings will be the most difficult. I suspect we'll see their origins as mainly from Q'Barra, the Demon Wastes, and maybe the Shadow Marches - anywhere ruins from the Age of Demons survive.

QuoteOtherwise your selection is not bad. The race selection in 4e is more about archetypes. Mearls mentioned that, when he was asked about Half-Giants. (Too similar to Goliaths.) So there might be one race of upgraded humans but not two. (Elans + Illumians)

Intelligent Undead on the other hand, could certainly be such an archetype.

Illumians were mentioned as a mostly extinct race in the Manual of Planes already BTW.

I think they'll bring Illumians back eventually, even if they are "mostly extinct". I think it'll be the Elans who are done away with, probably by integrating them with the Kalashtar (at least), and if Kalashtar have become Devas, then with Devas. My reasoning for that is that there's nothing visually distinctive about the Elan, whereas Illumians have those floating, glowing runes to distinguish them.

Edit: As well, Illumians are already sort-of Shadow aspected, which fits well with a book exploring the Shadow power source.