Quote from: mearlsAs I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm very impressed with HEX. It's a great game, and it deserves to build a fan base.

Thanks, Mike. That means a lot coming from you.

I like talking to retailers, and I've heard the same thing you have about declining RPG sales. But one of the nicest things a retailer said to me was, "Hollow Earth Expedition is selling. I know I can put it on the shelf and someone will buy it." And that was a quote from a retailer that was seeing a downturn in RPG sales.

Still, I've noticed a reluctance to take a chance on RPGs in the market. I run an Expedition Leader program where I send out prize support for folks that run games at their local game store or convention. In some cases, I've heard reports that players would have bought books after the demo if there had been some available in the store. These have turned into online and Amazon sales for me, which is good, but I'd rather see the local stores make the sale.

It remains to be seen what the future of roleplaying games will be, but I'm of the opinion that there is still a market for RPGs as long as players are provided with quality games and the opportunity to buy them.

Jeff

QuoteThe judging nominations were opened up and both the Forge and RPGnet were invited to participate. Despite this, most judges were still those with a noticeable ENwnorld presence (one actually had more posts at RPGnet than ENworld.) The forge could not swing enough votes to place their own candidates.

EnWorld requires that judges not be designers or publishers. That's the real reason no Forge-posting candidates made the list. Nearly everyone who posts over there and has any sort of critical faculty is an author, designer or publisher.


And remembered 10 years on, eh? I think an Origins Award for Best RPG of 2006 gives Burning Empires a damn good chance.

-L

I'm inclined to agree. I really like Burning Empires, though it's fucking hard to find folks to play it. It's the only non-supplement RPG product I wanted to buy this year. It's got a lot of neat stuff that I hope makes it into more mainstream RPG products, like that scene management business (especially in PvP or split-party campaigns) and the idea of a macroscosmic minigame (I loved this about Birthright too) that arises from and influences the microcosmic PC actions.

Must be frustrating that the same little sham vanity-press publications the Forgies made to get to call all of themselves "authors" stops them from being able to completely subvert the ENnies...

As for Origins Awards, I don't remember who won it last year, much less in 1997.  It'd be interesting to see how many of their picks were for games anyone still even gives a shit about...

RPGPundit

Quotethe idea of a macroscosmic minigame (I loved this about Birthright too) that arises from and influences the microcosmic PC actions.

Well, these are actually done way "better" in Traveller (Pocket Empires), or Harnmaster (HarnManor), or the Companion Set in D&D, or...

I put "better" in parentheses, as it never was the goal of BE to actually do a real microgame aspect of these subjects.

Instead you get nifty tools for pretending having a "macro-conflict". In reality, there is no strategy in BE, but you get to play some characters who think they are involved in a strategic conflict. BE is all about the characters, the opposite of any strategic game.

Pundit> You should be trying to convert the guys who make good games to your side, rather than pissing on the lot of them. That seems to be basically what the Forge guys do - they try to grab anyone who makes a good RPG, no matter how crunchy or inconsistent with whatever Forge-theory is this week.

Quote from: SettembriniWell, these are actually done way "better" in Traveller (Pocket Empires), or Harnmaster (HarnManor), or the Companion Set in D&D, or...

I put "better" in parentheses, as it never was the goal of BE to actually do a real microgame aspect of these subjects.

Instead you get nifty tools for pretending having a "macro-conflict". In reality, there is no strategy in BE, but you get to play some characters who think they are involved in a strategic conflict. BE is all about the characters, the opposite of any strategic game.

The various D&D mass-combat systems are another example of such systems being tried out. I'm not claiming it's sui generis, I'm claiming it's well done. I also didn't call it a "strategic" minigame.

What it does seem to do though, is take the events of the story with the PCs and provide a mechanism for explaining how their influence bears on the overall development of the world without requiring GM fiat, while providing enough options for how that ends up so that it's not just repetitious list checking. The competitive aspect of Burning Empires is really attractive to me as a guy who's played PvP D&D for years.

Quote from: RPGPunditAs for Origins Awards, I don't remember who won it last year, much less in 1997.  It'd be interesting to see how many of their picks were for games anyone still even gives a shit about...

You know, silly little games like Magic the Gathering and Legend of the Five Rings.

Quote from: SettembriniInstead you get nifty tools for pretending having a "macro-conflict". In reality, there is no strategy in BE, but you get to play some characters who think they are involved in a strategic conflict. BE is all about the characters, the opposite of any strategic game.

It's almost like English is your second language and you've never actually played the game. Oh wait....

You should try it, you might be surprised. Oh wait....

We've been down this path before, haven't we Mr Prussian?

-L

Quote from: PseudoephedrineWhat it does seem to do though, is take the events of the story with the PCs and provide a mechanism for explaining how their influence bears on the overall development of the world without requiring GM fiat, while providing enough options for how that ends up so that it's not just repetitious list checking.

Well, that does describe it. See the bolded part. By doing it the way it does, it centers the universe around the players, a thing I think is an abomination.
But it doesn´t matter what I think is an abomination or not, the tools in BE do what they do, as you described.

@PvP: Interestingly, everyone in Germany, Forgers included, agree that this aspect is totally lacking in BE. The GM makes all the important calls: Doling out Artha, on his whim.
Now, this doesn´t mean that´s detrimental to the game. But there is totally no meaningful confrontation going on in BE.

@Luke: How many planets? How many planets before the war is lost?
Tell me that, how many planets?

EDIT:
I fear, you don´t even know what a strategic game is. So let´s just settle this, before you go on a insult and embarassment spree, again.
I said what I wanted, let´s return to the main thread.

Quote from: Settembrini@PvP: Interestingly, everyone in Germany, Forgers included, agree that this aspect is totally lacking in BE. The GM makes all the important calls: Doling out Artha, on his whim.
Now, this doesn´t mean that´s detrimental to the game. But there is totally no meaningful confrontation going on in BE.

All of Germany? That's awesome.

GM does not dole out artha! Artha is game-neutral and group decided.

Why don't you actually try playing it? You're afraid it will change you, aren't you? Admit it.

Quote from: Settembrini@Luke: How many planets? How many planets before the war is lost?
Tell me that, how many planets?

That's a beautiful poem.

In Burning Empires, the answer is one.

Quote from: SettembriniWell, that does describe it. See the bolded part. By doing it the way it does, it centers the universe around the players, a thing I think is an abomination.
But it doesn´t matter what I think is an abomination or not, the tools in BE do what they do, as you described.

I think that's where we disagree in this case. While the "RPGs should be like books of fiction" thing can be suspicious as shit if left totally abstract, I think this technique is a useful one that can be taken from fiction and applied in interesting ways in games.

Quote@PvP: Interestingly, everyone in Germany, Forgers included, agree that this aspect is totally lacking in BE. The GM makes all the important calls: Doling out Artha, on his whim.
Now, this doesn´t mean that´s detrimental to the game. But there is totally no meaningful confrontation going on in BE.

I don't know that Artha determines everything in BE. I'll get back to you once I've played it. Even if it does, the conditions as set out in the rulebook seem to provide a space for players to be able to say "Give me my goddamn Artha" if the GM is being a rancid cunt about handing it out.

Quote from: lukeGM does not dole out artha! Artha is game-neutral and group decided.

I don't know if I'd go this far based on my read-through and then prepping to GM it. It does seem to be dialogical and public though - if the GM is tight-fisting the Artha, it seems like the rulebook encourages players to ask for it, and gives them things they can point to (like Beliefs being activated) that give them leverage to enforce those demands that the GM has to acknowledge.

Quote from: PseudoephedrinePundit> You should be trying to convert the guys who make good games to your side, rather than pissing on the lot of them. That seems to be basically what the Forge guys do - they try to grab anyone who makes a good RPG, no matter how crunchy or inconsistent with whatever Forge-theory is this week.

Yes, well over here we have a little something called convictions. So we'll call shit like it is, not try to claim that anything hip that comes along was really our idea and skip from one flash-in-the-pan theory-fad to another like cheap pseudointellectual-sluts.

RPGPundit